Total FUD: Zonelabs Teams up with...

Discussion in 'other firewalls' started by treat2, May 21, 2008.

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  1. treat2

    treat2 Registered Member

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    What is posted from here onward by the member treat2 is totally inaccurate and deliberately false and misleading information. Inspite of being shown proof that he was wrong, he continued to claim that there was some sort of untoward conspiracy going on.

    Wilders Security will not support such false and defaming postings, therefore, the member has been banned and this thread closed. - LowWaterMark




    Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Yes... just when you thought you've seen Firewall Vendors pulling all sorts of s***.... take a REAL CLOSE look AT Zonelabs, and you'll find it is THE SAME THING AS Zedo.com

    Unless EVERY DNS Server on the Net is "poisoned", check this out...

    do an nslookup on upd.zonelabs.com.
    (ie. nslookup upd.zonelabs.com in the Command Prompt), ...

    NOW, do an nslookup on www.zedo.com AND also c4.zedo.com

    Notice anything?

    Yep. ZONE ALARM'S DAILY UPDATE WEBSITE IS ZEDO.COM!!!

    Can you believe that sh**o_O!!!!!!

    If you are totally clueless as to WTF I'm talking about, just Google on Zedo.com, and checkout what everyone on the Net has to say about those A-Ho**!

    Folks, it seems that Checkpoint (ZA's vendor) needs to be "checked out", as they're definitely knee deep in s***, and that's an understatement.

    Is ZA "THE BEST" firewall EVER!" o_O?

    Think again! ----> Big Brother's Watching!

    BTW. Please spread the word. It's clear that nobody knows what really going on with "The Best Firewall EVER!"

    Regards, - T2 -
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2008
    treat2, May 21, 2008
    #1
  2. gerardwil

    gerardwil Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    What's wrong?

    canonical name a288.g.akamai.net.
    aliases upd.zonelabs.com
    upd.zonelabs.com.edgesuite.net
    addresses 204.0.5.11 204.0.5.25


    canonical name a1979.g.akamai.net.
    aliases c4.zedo.com
    c4.zedo.com.edgesuite.net
    addresses 204.0.5.19 204.0.5.33

    Gerard
     
    gerardwil, May 21, 2008
    #2
  3. Mem

    Mem Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    No it isn't...seems someone needs to understand the role of global hosting/mirror companies....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akamai_Technologies
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2008
    Mem, May 21, 2008
    #3
  4. gerardwil

    gerardwil Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    It's best to leave this job for you. :D

    Gerard
     
    gerardwil, May 21, 2008
    #4
  5. treat2

    treat2 Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)


    Pardon me. Try c5.zedo.com

    nslookup upd.zonelabs.com.edgesuite.net
    Name: a288.g.akamai.net
    Addresses: 72.246.52.7, 72.246.52.14
    Aliases: upd.zonelabs.com.edgesuite.net


    nslookup c5.zedo.com.edgesuite.net
    Name: a426.g.akamai.net
    Addresses: 72.246.52.14, 72.246.52.8
    Aliases: c5.zedo.com.edgesuite.net


    And you were saying? Ahem...
     
    treat2, May 21, 2008
    #5
  6. Mem

    Mem Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    We are saying that Akamai is a mirror company that takes information from separate individual companies and distributes it to the web in a quicker fashion than they could do themselves. Zonelabs and Zedo are not the same company or 'in' with each other, they just use the same distribution company for the web which has thousands of customers just like them.
     
    Mem, May 21, 2008
    #6
  7. Baz_kasp

    Baz_kasp Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Almost every major company uses Akamai....apple and MS included.
     
    Baz_kasp, May 21, 2008
    #7
  8. treat2

    treat2 Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)


    I don't mean to sound silly, but you're saying that both "different companies" (just happen to) "share" THE SAME IP Address (72.246.52.14), as shown in the nslookup of c5.zedo.com.edgesuite.net above, eho_O

    BTW. That "akami" is a monster is not news to anyone.

    Anything else?

    Sorry, I'm not "buying the line", as a fully qualified URL name shows the two of them are sharing the same bed.

    Please correct the nslookup above, or add anything else you have to shed further light on what appears rather obvious (using C5, instead of C4, WITH the fully qualified URL.) - I do thank you folks for pointing out that initial problem. However, it appears that a correction reveals nothing substantially new with regard to what is pointed out in the initial "thread post."
    - Regards, - T2 -
     
    treat2, May 21, 2008
    #8
  9. Mem

    Mem Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Yes, I do. They both use Akamai and the Akamai server uses that IP so it appears to come from the same IP to you even though it is a redistribution from the companys' servers. There are multiple global server centers for Akamai which allows more localized streaming of information from thier servers, improving throughput for the enduser. The Edgesuite is a platform that Akami uses on the server to interact with the client ompany.

    http://www.internetretailer.com/int...ai-unveils-edgesuite-business-continuity.html


    No offense, but you need to learn more of how this works before spreading FUD around. You may not 'buy the line' but it is the reality of the situation.

    Edit: since you may not have seen this from the wikipedia link I supplied above, I thought I would include it...

    "Akamai transparently mirrors content (usually media objects such as audio, graphics, animation, video) stored on customer servers. Though the domain name is the same, the IP address points to an Akamai server rather than the customer's server. The Akamai server is automatically picked depending on the type of content and the user's network location."
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2008
    Mem, May 21, 2008
    #9
  10. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Hello,

    The IP address means nothing.

    DNS wise - the zone records simply exist on the same server.

    Web server wise - For example, in Apache, you can use VirtualHost blocks to serve different web sites on the same IP address, without the having anything to with one another or being related in any way.

    IP addresses are a precious commodity. No reason to squander one IP per site when you can host several.

    Mrk
     
    Mrkvonic, May 21, 2008
    #10
  11. treat2

    treat2 Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Sorry for my "tone".

    Perhaps we can agree that "c5.zedo.com.edgesuite.net" simply is a URL belonging to CheckPoint, and one of its IPs (72.246.52.14) as shown below...

    nslookup upd.zonelabs.com.edgesuite.net
    Name: a288.g.akamai.net
    Addresses: 72.246.52.7, 72.246.52.14
    Aliases: upd.zonelabs.com.edgesuite.net


    nslookup c5.zedo.com.edgesuite.net
    Name: a426.g.akamai.net
    Addresses: 72.246.52.14, 72.246.52.8
    Aliases: c5.zedo.com.edgesuite.net

    Well.... we'll just forget about that. Obviously, there's no relationship whatsoever between the IP (.14) used by Zedo and Checkpoint.

    I think we understand you ENTIRELY now. No offence taken. Many thanks!

    Cheers! - T2 -
     
    treat2, May 21, 2008
    #11
  12. treat2

    treat2 Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)


    Thanks for the laugh! That was really a gem!


    BTW. What's an IPo_O

    - Regards, - T2 -
     
    treat2, May 21, 2008
    #12
  13. steve161

    steve161 Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Mrk:

    Your sense of humor is getting way too subtle for my tastes. I missed that joke completely.
     
    steve161, May 21, 2008
    #13
  14. treat2

    treat2 Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Yeah. LOL. This PC stuff is so "dry". Wait a sec...

    Ya think Zedo could be kinda peeved that Checkpoint is using their IPo_O

    I'll bet Zedo would be kinda displeased that everyone using Zone Alarm's Firewall Update is knocking at their door.

    Geez!!! Given Zedo's "rep", I'm SURE they've just totally discontinued using that IP for ANY REASON whatsoever.

    Ohhhhhh.....

    Wait a minute! "The IP means nothing!" Ah yes. So, in "DNSland" Zedo and Checkpoint just SHARE the SAME IP SIMULTANEOUSLY!

    Ain't DNS wonderful! WOW! Nothing gets mixed up. It's kinda like magic. Every IP Packet knows just where it's supposed to end up, just by the URL!

    Got it. The IP address is simply meaningless, 'cause the IP packet has a URL!

    OPPPPs! Geeez.... wonder what happens if the sender of the packet doesn't use "no" URL and uses an IP instead?

    AH! I know. They (Zedo and Checkpoint) BOTH get the IP packet, and the "listener" program (at Zedo and Checkpoint) simply decides to discard or accept IP packets in an arbitrary fashion.

    Now THAT really makes sense. Thanks a bunch. Obviously, these guys just got "smushed" together by akami, cause akami is probably using every friggin IP address on the Net for itself! (lol) - T2 - (this is too much. lmao)
     
    treat2, May 21, 2008
    #14
  15. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Two companies that happen to use akamai content mirroring does not make those companies related at all. Yes, even if the content happens to overlap by IP address, they are still not related. As Mrk wrote, an IP address just brings you to a specific server location, however, the virtual hosting there can easily provide the correct content based upon whichever name the request is using.

    akamai is just a third-party bandwidth provider in this case. If a company requests akamai to mirror content, akamai provides them with that content on a specified hostname, then varies its DNS to load balance the content between servers and often geographically dispersed, so that closer servers may provide the content quicker.

    No, neither Zedo nor Checkpoint are getting that packet. akamai is getting it. Take a look at who actually owns the shared IP addresses you've noted... Don't just look at the result you get looking up the hostnames, look up based on the IP addreses you are seeing. For example, you show 72.246.52.14 as a shared IP address. Looking that up shows neither Zedo not Checkpoint, instead it shows clearly that akamai owns the IP address:

    ip-addr-lookup-shows-akamai.jpg

    akamai is the owner of those "shared" IP addresses, not either company. And akamaai provides content based upon the host name in the request header, providing either updates for zonealarm or whatever zedo has hosted there. The key to this is virtual hosting...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_hosting

    Read the part about how different content is provided on a server using the same IP address but different hosts.
     
    LowWaterMark, May 21, 2008
    #15
  16. treat2

    treat2 Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)


    OMG!!!

    You mean if I send a packet with JUST the IP, then ONLY akmi gets it, and nobody elseo_O??

    GEE! All this time, I thought ya could send a packet with just an IP, and it would go to the place I wanted it to, but alas.... akami would simply DISCARD the sh** because I didn't use a friggin fully qualified URL!

    OK! Thanks. BTW.... Could you PLEASE tell someone at Checkpoint to rewrite their firewall, cause its got this entry for an IP address, and I REALLY would HATE to think that IP packets MUST have a fully qualified URL just to get to ANYONE (of a few trillion servers) that just HAPPENS to be ON Server Farm!

    Thanks for clearing the entire matter up. I'll just attribute the entire thing to the complete ignorance of DNS's ability to resolve an IP to a URL, and then send a packet to the right place, since as you say..... akami gets it, but neither ZEDO nor Checkpoint get squat. Right.

    BTW. akami's got too many addresses. Don't ya think they outta join some Web Hosting firm to cut down on their IP consumption?

    Oye! LOL I'm having entirely too much fun with this unforseen loss of IP packets just using IP Addresses that are simultaneously shared by a billion points of light.

    Thanks for the enjoyable chat. I'll google that reading material under:
    "TCP and its irrelevant IP's on millions of Web Servers".

    BTW. I kinda figure that Checkpoint and Zedo are pretty liberal minded about sharing a firewall update distribution server address with another company infamous for spreading doggy pooh all over the Net. Go figure, eh?

    - Cheers, - T2 -
     
    treat2, May 21, 2008
    #16
  17. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Hi,

    I was not joking.

    Here's how you do it:

    <VirtualHost site1.com:80>
    ServerName site1.com
    DocumentRoot /var/www/html/site1/
    </VirtualHost>

    <VirtualHost site2.com:80>
    ServerName site2.com
    DocumentRoot /var/www/html/site2/
    </VirtualHost>

    Thusly, you serve two completely different sites, with no relation to one another, whatsoever. Even if both sites are used on the same server, served from the same IP address. You have the DNS server handling the queries.

    Thanks, LWM for the extra link, was too lazy to add it...

    Mrk
     
    Mrkvonic, May 21, 2008
    #17
  18. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Here's a treat for treat2 showing virtual hosting in action. Yes, I used exactly what Mrk is showing as for virtual hosting in my webserver here.

    ------------------------

    Here's a demo of virtual hosting for you, to show how the host name included in the header will actually provide different content even though the exact same server is being accessed on the same IP address.

    If you do an nslookup on wilderssecurity.com you'll see our IP address is 65.175.38.194

    Now, I'm not about to set up and propagate DNS for this demo, so, you'll have to use your hosts file to make it resolve the hostname for you.

    Add these lines to the top of your Hosts file:

    Code:
    #
# Treat2 demo
#
65.175.38.194	treat2.org
65.175.38.194	www.treat2.org
    Now browse to http://www.treat2.org

    Check your firewall logs or do a "netstat -an" to show that you are indeed connecting to IP address 65.175.38.194 and even though that is the IP address of wilderssecurity.com it is providing the demo page for the fictitious treat2.org, as well.

    Akamai does this same thing except they have massive server farms spread all over the world and they use DNS load balancing to get the connections to various available servers in their server farms and use host names to determine what content to provide back.
     
    LowWaterMark, May 21, 2008
    #18
  19. treat2

    treat2 Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    I figure that Checkpoint and Zedo are pretty liberal minded about sharing a firewall update distribution server address with another company infamous for spreading doggy pooh all over the Net. Go figure, eh? - T2
     
    treat2, May 21, 2008
    #19
  20. treat2

    treat2 Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)


    I "hear" ya.

    Does it occur to you that doing this using DIFFERENT businesses, NOT A SINGLE BUSINESS WITH MULTIPLE SERVERS SERVING A SIMILAR AND OVERLAPPING FUNCTION.

    One of the businesses USING THE SAME IP is a renouned dog-sh**tter that spreads spyware, and the other USING THE SAME IP is for the supposed purpose of Updating their Firewall, VIA THEIR OWN SERVER, not akami's, nor Zedo's.

    Is it not just a bit "too much" to take this SAME IP FOR THOSE TOTALLY DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED BUSINESSES as simply a coincidence?

    (I hope I'm not seeming not a conspiracy theorist, but REALLY... this IS, too much to be expected to be cooincidental, when BOTH of these companies are using that same IP, and the "simple" URL is being used by some USERS on the Net, as a "trusted" site!!! Consider the consequences for the USER'S EXPOSURE, given that they are ASKING for a DOWNLOAD of an update to their firewall.)

    BTW. The IP packets are NOT TRASHED, regardless of whether or not they have no URL. (That point should clearly be made AND ACCORDINGLY, THE CONSEQUENCES OF WHERE THOSE IP REQUESTS FOR DOWNLOADS ARE GOING, is also of relevance.)

    I hear ya. However, I'm not buying the idea that just because it is technically possible to share an IP, that what's going on in this case it is a sheer cooincidence. THAT was and STILL REMAINS my ENTIRE POINT.
    I leave it to YOU to decide if you figure its just nonsense, or their is something insidious about what's being done.

    - Regards, - T2 -
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2008
    treat2, May 21, 2008
    #20
  21. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Hello,

    In that regard, the entire Internet is run by 13 servers.

    So ... one way or another, good servers are on the same grid with the bad servers, so to speak.

    What you're saying is that ZA could have called Akamai and said: oh noes, you have assigned us an IP that company X also uses. Now, in our kindergarden, we used to fight, so we can't have the same IP ...

    And since you can create virtual network adapters, IP means little. The two sites could still physically sit on the same server and use different IPs and you'd be none the wiser.

    Again, VirtualHost with 2 IPs, when you use eth0 and eth0:1 (virtual adapter entirely) to assign two different addresses to two different sites, both on your server.

    Mrk
     
    Mrkvonic, May 21, 2008
    #21
  22. treat2

    treat2 Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    (Mrk. Just read you're note, and want to acknowledge having done so. I've made a final post, to wrap up my last word within this thread. So, feel free to respond as you please. Thanks for you feedback throughout. - T2)
     
    treat2, May 21, 2008
    #22
  23. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Well I'm sorry then treat, but, I have to decide that what you've brought up is indeed nonsense. We've all been trying to explain it to you, but you just don't seem to want to understand. You prefer to think its some sort of consipiracy, and that you've somehow found the smoking gun that no one else in the world has yet found - proof positive of some insidious deal between these companies. But, the fact is, you are simply wrong in the conclusion you've drawn from the data you've seen. And while no one wants to embarrass you, we can't allow a conclusion like that to go unrefuted when it contains such misinformation.
     
    LowWaterMark, May 21, 2008
    #23
  24. treat2

    treat2 Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    OK. Just a last, last post....

    What you represented is entirely technically feasible, and done within many a Server Farm. However, what we have been discussing is NOT just a few thousand Web Servers that all are setup for scalability's sake for everyone to simple use a single function, such as for everyone to just "google".

    THAT would be an appropriate use of a shared IP by ANY standard of System and Web Farm design, as ALL Servers perform the SAME function, and provide scalability, and redundancy.

    On the other hand, what you propose as being an entirely legitimate use of a shared IP, SIMULTANEOUSLY TO PERFORM TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT FUNCTIONS is by no means, or in any fashion, a design for a scalable System requiring scalability of Web Servers, as in a Farm, which share the same purpose.

    Even if you consider what you propose as being the sole purpose of the shared IP, you clearly do no understand what the purpose of a shared IP address is for, when speaking of the design of Scalable Web Applications and Systems. Instead, you conclude that the SAME IP CAN, COULD, AND IS legitimately used by entirely different Servers for different purposes. Thus, ignoring the treatment of IP packets which hold entirely dissimilar content, which originate with ONLY an IP being given, AND NO URL! - Forgetting this
    is convenient, but it is not logical, nor is it how anyone designs Scalable Web Farms.

    Akami, albiet a Web Farm can NOT stick 2 totally different businesses' Web Server's which themselves process and serve up totally different kinds of messages, for the simple reason that their is absolutely NO assurance that an IP packet will be sent given a fully qualified URL, as opposed to being specified with simply a shared IP, which IS totally legitimate, and NO System on THIS PLANET, would EVER be setup to REQUIRE 1 FROM "THE PUBLIC AT LARGE", but NOT the other!

    Hence, you argument falls flat on its face from even the aspect of a Web and System Design point of view.

    Sorry, but you've not at all proved anything, JUST BECAUSE it is TECHNICALLY feasible, as THAT IS TECHNICALLY NEVER DONE for the reasons previously stated. ONLY, another purpose could be served by having that same IP! THAT is exactly my point.

    - Regards - T2 -
     
    treat2, May 21, 2008
    #24
  25. fax

    fax Registered Member

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    Re: Eye Opener: Zonelabs Teams up with Big Brother (Zedo.com)

    Hi!
    I am afraid to say but your discover show a good share of lack of understanding of how virtual hosting works.

    Just go to ZA forum and search for 'akamai'. Every month or so, there is a new user coming up with this alerts/cryout/frantic discovery... it has been going on for years now (unfortunately) :rolleyes:

    Errare humanum est perseverare diabolicum!

    Cheers,
    Fax
    EDIT: For example, this message is dated back to 2006:
    http://forum.zonelabs.org/zonelabs/board/message?board.id=security&message.id=16279
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2008
    fax, May 21, 2008
    #25
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