Question re: Uninstalling security apps

Discussion in 'other anti-malware software' started by bellgamin, Dec 24, 2022.

  1. bellgamin

    bellgamin Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Posts:
    8,102
    Location:
    Hawaii
    I enjoy trying out security apps. Before installiing one, I always establish a Restore file.

    QUESTION: Once I am finished with trying a security app, which will do the more thorough job of uninstalling that app:

    1- Using the app's own uninstaller?
    OR
    2- Restoring the pre-installation Restore file?
     
  2. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Posts:
    5,554
    Location:
    USA still the best. But barely.
    What do you mean you establish a restore file?
     
  3. bellgamin

    bellgamin Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Posts:
    8,102
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Windows 7 & later versions have a System Restore capability. The Restore file that they create is not as totally thorough as an image file. That's why I asked my questions.
     
  4. Infected

    Infected Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Posts:
    1,134
    I like using like Shadow Defender, which is based off of System Restore. Or using a VM, dedicated to just test-driving programs.
     
  5. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Posts:
    5,554
    Location:
    USA still the best. But barely.
    So are you asking?:

    1- Using the app's own uninstaller?
    OR
    2- Rolling back to a System Restore point?
     
  6. bellgamin

    bellgamin Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Posts:
    8,102
    Location:
    Hawaii
    @Infected -- Yes, I use Shadow whenever it's feasible. However, some security apps mandate a restart -- not possible with Shadow -- & some apps simply won't execute when on Shadow.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    @zapjb -- Yes, I am asking: -- Which of those 2 methods will do the more thorough job of uninstalling a security app?
     
  7. roger_m

    roger_m Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Posts:
    8,627
    The app's own installer is a better option. It's best to also run the vendor's own uninstallation tool (which almost all big name antiviruses provide), after uninstalling and rebooting, to remove any remaining leftovers. One issue with that is that sometimes even the vendor's own uninstall tool will not remove all leftovers. But since you regularly create backups, you could restore from a backup made before installing the antivirus.
     
  8. bellgamin

    bellgamin Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Posts:
    8,102
    Location:
    Hawaii
    @roger_m -- Good counsel. I shall do it that way.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    @ Anyone & Everyone -- I can't help but wonder why some security apps, when they are being installed, will first establish a System Restore file. To me, that seems to imply *something* -- I'm just not sure what. Thus far, the best answer I have found is HERE.

    BTW, I use an app called Kerish Doctor (KD) to create and restore Windows System Restores. KD makes that task easy-peasy. KD is also a superb watchdog on system problems, plus it's a great fixer-upper for most of those problems.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2022
  9. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    4,041
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    LOL

    Why is there a warning on a new carving knife set I gave to my kids that says, "Knife edge is sharp. Keep away from small children." Why do TV ads for MiracleCureSnakeOil, say "Do not take if allergic to MiracleCureSnakeOil"?

    The thing about security programs in particular is they tend to set hooks deep in the kernel of the operating system. This is so they can [hopefully] detect any unauthorized changes (or snooping) by malicious code. And because it is possible, even if remote, that something might go wrong during the program install (power fluctuation, RAM fault, user error), they either warn to take precautions (make a backup, for example) or they do a system restore or some other "recovery" action - just in case.

    But in my opinion, programs do a System Restore today because, (1) that is how they always did it, and/or (2) to give users a [false?] sense of security.

    To answer your initial question, I agree with Roger and when I try out a new program and decide I don't want to use it, I use the program's own uninstaller. While I am fully aware these are notorious for leaving orphaned folders and sometimes even files and Registry entries behind, they typically are just that, orphaned. That is, they do not connect or point to anything, and nothing connects or points to them. "IF" the developer has a dedicated "uninstaller" tool, then I also agree using that is a good idea. On that, however, if a program fails to fully clean up after itself when uninstalled, I might consider that developer "lazy" - if I'm being nice!

    IMO, System Restore is not very effective for much of anything - except - maybe - rolling back after a device driver update. It does NOT restore the entire system back to a previous state as an image backup would. Perhaps those are reasons why Microsoft decided to have the default setting for System Restore set to disabled.
     
  10. Azure Phoenix

    Azure Phoenix Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2014
    Posts:
    1,556
    Little piece of info I want to share.

    Kaspersky own removal tool had a bug that broke System Restore

    https://rjcuk.blogspot.com/2016/09/kaspersky-removal-tool-bug.html?m=1
     
  11. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    4,041
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    :( 6 years ago.
     
  12. TairikuOkami

    TairikuOkami Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Posts:
    3,418
    Location:
    Slovakia
    I have yet to find AV that would uninstall completelly. I have recently even stopped recommending Kaspersky, because it turned into malware, you can not get rid of it without a reinstall.
    Whether using 3rd party uinstaller or their own removal tool, any new AV will find it as present and refuse to install. I would never test AV without creating a system backup beforehand.
     
  13. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    4,041
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    I stopped recommending it a long time ago because of the malware issue. But that's a different discussion.

    As far as creating a system backup first, I agree. But then again, if I am going to "test" security software, I do it on my "test" computer and not this, my primary computer.
     
  14. Azure Phoenix

    Azure Phoenix Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2014
    Posts:
    1,556
  15. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    4,041
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    Fair enough. I guess the lesson then is, don't install that program.
     
  16. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Posts:
    5,614
    Location:
    Milan and Seoul
    If testing with Shadow Defender works, a simple reboot will be enough, otherwise restoring an image of the OS is arguably the most complete solution. I agree with what's been said about System Restore, not reliable IMO and will increase the size of images when backing up...
     
  17. bellgamin

    bellgamin Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2002
    Posts:
    8,102
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Thanks to all (especially @Bill_Bright ) I shall cease using or recommending Windows System Restore. Image is it!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Of course, it is still an uninstall problem when someone uses (say) an AV for several months or longer and then decides to uninstall/replace it. I don't keep pre-install images that long PLUS I wouldn't normally restore such an old image even if I had one. Why? Because all subsequent systemic changes would revert back, right?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Maybe we need to start a Wilders thread listing security apps that DO uninstall cleanly -- for instance: simplewall, tinywall, Voodooshield, OSArmor. Might also want to include security apps that install "cleanly enough" -- that is, they leave some stuff behind but it just takes up space & doesn't mess up your computer.

    ==>OPINIONS?
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2022
  18. digmor crusher

    digmor crusher Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Posts:
    1,157
    Location:
    Canada
    Good ideas, but it may not fly for these 4 reasons.

    1. Different programs MAY uninstall/install differently dependent on users computer configurations. I say MAY because I'm not sure.

    2. Every time a program updates it may change how it uninstalls if there is a huge difference between versions. So this list would have to be updated constantly.

    3. Some people would have no idea if a program uninstalls cleanly.

    4. Cleanly means different things to different people.
     
  19. roger_m

    roger_m Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Posts:
    8,627
    It's rare for any Windows app to install cleanly, but is rarely an issue for anything other than security software. Yes, there is some security software that won't leave behind any components that still use resources, so the leftovers shouldn't cause any issues.

    When I'm installing security software on my main computer, I use Total Uninstall to keep a record, so I can use it later to remove all leftovers if I ever decide to uninstall the security software.
     
  20. Rico

    Rico Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Posts:
    2,286
    Location:
    Canada
    Why try so many security apps? Amazing is "Revo" used free ver. then paid. Its routine is apps uninstaller runs first, then Revo picks what's left behind.
    It's a crap shoot from vendor to vendor how thoroughly the app's app removes itself. Revo can/does remove, from few to many leftovers. I now use
    Revo rarely. Shadow Defender is IMO the best way to play with new security apps. Windows restore can be funky
     
  21. roger_m

    roger_m Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Posts:
    8,627
    Revo is of not much use when uninstalling security software, unless you use the snapshot feature in the Pro version so it has a record of exactly what files and folders need to be removed. The reason for this, is that things like drivers won't be found by Revo as they are installing the System32\Drivers folder, rather than the folder where the security software was installed.
     
  22. moredhelfinland

    moredhelfinland Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Posts:
    344
    Location:
    Finland
    Mcafee Endpoint is quite difficult to uninstall, if there's no official uninstaller available. There's youtube video availabe in which order(components) you have to uninstall it. Then use Registry Finder software to delete all the registry entries of McAfee. Then i use File Explorer search function with a keyword *mcafee". Delete all found entries. Then autoruns and/or nirsoft Driverview to disable/delete McAfee drivers. Like @roger_m said, maybe something like revo can make this simpler, but i like to do it my own way anyway :D
     
  23. paulderdash

    paulderdash Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2013
    Posts:
    4,639
    Location:
    Under a bushel ...
    I would definitely go option 1, uninstallers handily bundled here? From the same dev as Windows Repair Toolbox. Portable, regularly updated.
    System Restore for me is useless, unreliable at best.

    https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/antivirus_removal_tool.html
    https://www.softpedia.com/get/Antivirus/Removal-Tools/Antivirus-Removal-Tool-Alexandre-Coelho.shtml

    Then manually hunt around for remnants, if any.
     
  24. zapjb

    zapjb Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Posts:
    5,554
    Location:
    USA still the best. But barely.
    I used to go to a forum where it was impossible to write it. The swear filter would spit it out like mcaf**. That & iTunes were the worst to uninstall.
     
  25. moredhelfinland

    moredhelfinland Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Posts:
    344
    Location:
    Finland
    Trellix DAC with Voodooshield...oh well :D
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.