Introducing AX64 Time Machine - hybrid imaging/snapshot software

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Isso, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. Rainwalker

    Rainwalker Registered Member

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    Installed FB yesterday. Earlier today it missed a backup. Something that never happened with TM V. 1 or V.2. I then decided to remove it. Was unable to do so. Uninstall stopped about halfway, according to progress bar. Tried again in Safe Mode. Same problem so I attempted a reinstall over the top and it SEEMED to work. I want to remove FB so I will try again when I feel like it. Has anyone seen this problem? I am not interested in sending in logs.
     
  2. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    C'mon folks.. if you want this application to succeed, help the developers in any way you can. If you have a problem, send them LOGs and problem descriptions... something they can work with.

    If you're not interested in the product at all, you're probably wasting your time in this thread. If you are interested but the product is not quite where you'd like it to be, keep an eye on the thread 'til you hear something you like.

    Since, like all imaging products, they seem to be very sensitive to system configurations... it's impossible for the Devs to create every possible System config for testing purposes, that's why we're here, assisting in these BETA programs. Even in the Macrium Forums there are issues that always seem to be System configuration dependent, and those guys work their butt off to fix them... but there are way more of them than there are FlashBack Devs.

    As I said, if you want the product to succeed, help them out as best you can. You don't need "positive" comments to do that, you need problem descriptions and LOGs to help them troubleshoot the issues. The descriptions and LOGs are best sent to <info@AX64.com> although it's nice to see them here as well... some of us may be able to help you with those issues.

    I know it's frustrating to see a product take so long to reach fruition, but if you can help... as Nike says, "Let's DO IT!" The Devs are trying... let's help 'em if we can.
     
  3. dagrev

    dagrev Registered Member

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    Amen.
    I have always found Wal and Iurie to be very happy to get logs and as much detailed info about problems as possible. I have no doubt they want the program to succeed, as do I. Until the next update I can't try and supply any new info.
     
  4. cloggy49

    cloggy49 Registered Member

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  5. hoge hoge

    hoge hoge Registered Member

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    @TheRollbackFrog,
    That's cool !

    I feel developer is good job.

    "Does not running" or "Strange behavior" only report are meaningless...
    Same with other software.

    But... New features will care.
     
  6. taotoo

    taotoo Registered Member

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    That's what I've been doing for a couple of years now - yet to hear anything credible though. The software appears to be in a permanent state of beta, with an occasional payment required if one wants to continue taking part. I hope it works out for them, but it all feels under-resourced and in the lap of the gods.
     
  7. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    That statement is quite a stretch for sure and a bit unfair. The only users that have PAID for any version (or should have PAID for any version) are those who have TRIALed the officially released version of the application thoroughly and decided that it worked for them in their System management forum. AX64 LLC/Xeroweight/<whatever> has never asked for a licensing fee to be part of the BETA activities. If you wanted to partake in the BETA "experience" (and it's been quite an experience :rolleyes: ), they made a FREE BETA test version available to you... to my knowledge that's never changed.

    The only licenses I've ever had for this product were the FREE v1 items issued to me for assistance during the v1 BETA program, and the PAID v2 license (on SALE, of course :cool: ) which I paid for due to the excellent service it gave me for my personal system(s). No one from this company has ever asked me to pay for a license to use a BETA product.

    Users should pay for a license if the officially released product, at the time of thorough TRIALing and licensing, is doing the job they expect from the application in question. If that application fails at a later time due to some hardware/software change along the way, you have a licensed right to avail yourself of their Support portal for help with that situation. This process is basically the same for almost all the products I purchase for my computing environment.

    Sure, a lot of overzealous Time Machine users may have jumped on their licensing a bit early in the testing cycle (not really testing it thoroughly enough) but that really only gives them the right to use the SUPPORT facilities. Hopefully the next time they'll test it a bit more thoroughly. I know I did and the initial WARM restore issue of v2 has always worked for me in my environment... even v1 has been an excellent product for me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
  8. taotoo

    taotoo Registered Member

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    I don't mean beta in a literal sense of course. Just that (to me) it's on a par with beta software in that for many people it's not fully-working, and many flaws don't get fixed within the major version. Indeed the line between beta and public version is blurred as can be seen by people using and recommending beta versions of V1 in preference to public versions.

    Regarding testing the trial before committing to a purchase - one of my gripes with the software is that delta restores become slower over time. This is not necessarily noticeable (or diagnosable as being due to the software itself) within the trial period.
     
  9. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    As far as I've noticed, this is a product of any imaging system that uses INCREMENTAL snapshots to do its DIFFERENCE restore bidding. The more snapshots involved or the more time between the baseline and the most recent restore point tends to lengthen the restore period... this is the only way a snapshot tool using INCREMENTAL snapshots can work (Macrium REFLECT has the same issues when doing DIFFERENCE restorations).

    This method, of course, is nothing like the snapshot database in use by solutions like Rollback RX. Since all snapshot data is left right on the media being protected (but hidden from Windows), all this type of tool needs to do is change FileSystem pointers to refer to any snapshot in place... no data restoration process is involved at all. Of course this process is fast, but it offers no successful recovery of data mangled either by itself or the storage media. For this type of tool to be useful at all, it must be accompanied by some sort of imaging tool that can really restore that data.

    If speed is really your entire issue, I would suggest using a tool like Rollback RX to perform those types of snapshot recoveries (I really can't believe I just said that :eek: ) but you MUST HAVE that secondary imaging tool to use if System recovery is really needed at any time. That's what most knowledgeable users of Rollback RX are doing at the moment. Usually this process is a bit cumbersome because Rollback makes it almost impossible to do the real backup task well do to its maniipulation of standard Windows BOOT paths. As a result it is usually a slightly convoluted task requiring multiple steps to both save the data and reconstruct that convoluted BOOT path. Horizon DataSys (the Rollback author) offers its new Drive Cloner RX v6 to allow you to image not only your protected partitions but also the protection snapshots involved with them. This solution can also be very convoluted when eyed as a full System solution for protection and, based on our BETA test results, may still have some significant issues involved with the product.

    FlashBack tries to give you a hybrid of that System solution... reasonably fast return to RECENT time points (used for software testing, update testing, recent event testing), and an imaging solution that allows for full System recovery when needed.

    Ya pays your money... ya takes your choices.
     
  10. TheBear

    TheBear Registered Member

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    What is FlashBack?
     
  11. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    The new name of AX64 Time Machine,,,,Apple complained re the Time Machine part so the name has been changed.
     
  12. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    ...and the Company's name is no longer AX64 LLC as far as authoring... their new name is Xeroweight.
     
  13. taotoo

    taotoo Registered Member

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    I'm sure you're right, and I think you've previously explained why this is. I do wonder if something couldn't be done - perhaps a more sophisticated merging process that somehow untangles things?. But it feels like the majority of people don't notice this issue - maybe they've never had a three month-old chain of hourly backups. In fact I wonder if the devs are even aware of it (posts on this forum and an email haven't yielded an answer).

    Edit: Reflect doesn't suffer from this issue if carefully scheduled.

    I actually WOULD use RollbackRx, except that it doesn't let you set a creeping baseline of, say, three days. I don't want ever-decreasing disk space, nor do I want to have to manually reset the baseline every few days and temporarily be without any snapshots to quickly go back to.
     
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    ALthough I am not sure where Flashback fits for me, I can't help being interested and hoping for their success. I decided to do a couple of stress tests today to see how Flashback fared.

    All tests were done with 'Hot" restore.

    1. I took a Macrium inc for safety
    2. Installed FB and took a base image
    3. Rebooted and took another incremental

    Test one.

    Used a utility that Raxco has called scamble. It's purpose is to do the opposite of a defragger. It really scrambles the disk. I started scramble running, waited about 2 minutes, and then started another FB incremental. It took little over 4 minutes. Stop Scramble.

    Then I did a hot restore. Did just fine, and the disk indeed was crambled.
    Then restored the incremental taken under step 3 above. Also worked fine, and put the disk like it had been

    Test Two

    Started IFW running taking a differential. Time indicated to run 17 minutes. About 4 minutes in I started a FB incremental. It took almost 8 minutes but did run.
    Then did hot restore. Restore was fine.

    Test Three

    Started a hot restore, and about 35% of the way in it the power reset. System booted thru the IR preboot, Windows boot menu and the blue screened. No surprise there.
    Let it reboot, and went into the FB recovery environment. It was a full restore, but went fine.

    So all three stress tests were successful.

    Pete
     
  15. rodneym

    rodneym Registered Member

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    I would have to agree, and my main complaint is that it lost what originally made it unique, what drew people to version 1, was that it was NOT like every other imaging solution. Now that is all been cast by the wayside.


     
  16. rodneym

    rodneym Registered Member

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    Heads up for the guys who use and love Version 1....

    When you install AX64TM V1 and get it working, with all your fav software installed...

    When you make that alternate BU (image) with another product, like I did (as stated in this thread previously)..

    Make that alternate Image with "Macrium" and not "Acronis"....

    I made both immediately after doing clean install of Win 10, and if you restore with Acronis, when you go to use any of your multiple restores in AX64TM V1 it will respond "can't find original drive" (C:) or some jazz like that...

    But with Macrium this doesn't happen...(I have no idea why).
     
  17. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    My guess (and I think it's correct knowing Acronis)... your partition was not restored correctly by Acronis but was fully functional (maybe the size changed, maybe it deleted the original partition and created a new one which will cause trepidation by some imagers <partition ID# will change>). AXTM will not restore that image to a different partition than where it came from... only back to the original or a bare metal restore (new unallocated device).

    Some imagers are finicky and worry that you might be destroying something you really don't mean to...
     
  18. cloggy49

    cloggy49 Registered Member

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    I also did some more testing with V1, V2 and Flashback on a Dell laptop running Windows10Pro X32 and I noticed that V1, V2 nor Flashback ever made a backup of the MBR partition (the .axb files were never created). A restore (full Image was automatically enabled) to an empty, new formatted disk, resulted in a laptop that could not be booted as the MBR partition was missing. Strange thing is that during the backup of the disk nor hourly snapshots, it was never reported by the 3 versions that the .abx files were not created. This is quite tricky as when you think to rely on this program to be able to restore your disk, you will be surprised.
    Unfortunetaly, I have no more days left in the 30 days trial period. I've sent an email to info@AX64.com asking for a version that allows me to use the program for more days and what information/logs they would like to receive to investigate this further.
     
  19. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Did you elect to restore the MBR? If not that may be your problem. MBR.jpg
     
  20. cloggy49

    cloggy49 Registered Member

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    As the restore took place to an empty, just formatted NTFS disk, AXTM discovered this and automatically selected MBR, Hidden Partition and Full Image restore as options.........but the MBR was never backed up (no .axb files created) so I ended up with a system with only the data partition restored and no MBR partition, i.e. it could not be booted. Both the snapshot backups and the Restore did not report anything about the missing boot partition (which, IMHO, is totally wrong and should be fixed, hence I reported this to the developers).
    I'm in contact with the developers and I have a link for a Beta version to perform more tests so I can provide them with the requested logs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2015
  21. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    You are talking about the System Reserved Partition, right? Under Win7 (32-bit and 64-bit) all versions of AX64 and Flashback do backup this SRP correctly, so it looks like a Win10 issue to me.

    If you have a Macrium rescue CD you can easily repair such Windows boot problems, no need to restore an image made by a different backup software.


    Cheers
    manolito
     
  22. cloggy49

    cloggy49 Registered Member

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    I've tested AX64TM V2 on two different Windows10 Pro X64 systems, one with MBR partition only and one with the 4 partitions next to the Data (C:) partition and on the system with the MBR partition, it is properly backed up and on the other system (UEFI) the boot partition and system reserved partitions are properly backed up. I'm in the process of setting up a new installation of Windows10 Pro X86 version and will collect the information for the developers. I think that AX64TM has been developed with X64 in the back of their minds... :)
    Once I have completed the testing, I'll post the results here too..

    With regards to Macrium, I happen to have a Rescue CD but that doesn't solve the problem of AX64 not backing up the boot and/or system reserved partitions. The AX64 program has been set up as simple but if a restore to a new HDD fails and "the simple" users need to look for other tools to be able to boot up their PC, it is missing his goal.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2015
  23. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    Of course you are right, this is an AX64 problem and should be corrected by the company. But knowing that you will be able to fix a non-bootable restore is another safety layer.

    Restoring the whole PC (with several partitions) after a major disaster (bare metal restore) is also not that simple with AX64. It does not let you recover the whole system at once, you can only recover the system drive (plus System Reserved Partition) first. After this you would think that you can recover the other partitions from within Windows, but this doesn't work. You have to reboot using the recovery media and then you can restore the rest of the partitions one by one. Not too user friendly, but at least it works...


    Cheers
    manolito
     
  24. cloggy49

    cloggy49 Registered Member

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    Just completed the testing (with the collection of logs as requested).
    On a clear Windows10 Pro 32 bit installation, the Reserved Partition is not backed up. After the restore, the system could not boot up into Windows (Error, unknown file system..) so I used the Macrium Recovery USB to fix the boot problems and then Windows came up properly and all data was available (....that was done properly by AX64....;)).
    So, it is not a major disaster, but something that definitely needs to be fixed.

    It's now to the developers to look into it.

    To be continued....

    PS. Before I installed AX64TM V2 I made an image copy of my HDD with.......Macrium..:).
     
  25. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    There is a simple solution to all those extra partitions. Get rid of them. That is what I've done. All my computers, and my Win 10 image, only have a c: partition, nothing else. Really simplifies life. I got rid of them with Shadowprotect.

    Pete
     
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