Xerobank vs. ShadowVPN

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by snowdrift, Apr 16, 2009.

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  1. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

    I'm afraid the facts just aren't on your side, yet again. In a search you will find XeroBank on page 1 of google results for anonymous browsing, internet privacy software, and anonymous browser; and you will find us in the next few pages for internet privacy, identity protection, and anonymous internet, depending on where you search from. We don't do any advertising or much in the way of PR, it's really a word of mouth service. Considering that fact, I would say you are drastically misinformed considering the substantial google rankings we have. We're just too busy doing service/software development, and I'm sure all the crap services appreciate that... but they won't appreciate it on august 1st when they get busted. :D ask me why it is august 1st for the date. You'll love my answer.
  2. Genady Prishnikov

    Genady Prishnikov Registered Member

    In honor of a great man in your family, Otto Toeplitz - and the Toeplitz Matrix. His birthday is August 1st. Your surname was anglicized after WWII. Close?
  3. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

    The answer is that it is a secret. Like many things, I'm under contract not to disclose the information. Told you that you would love my answer. But look at it this way, at least you have a solid date.

    Genady, I often get the feeling you are troll working for some sleazy service like privacy.li, but there is the possibility that you may not be, so let me ask you some things since you are appropriately positioned: what product or service would you like to see from XeroBank? What would enhance your feeling of trust or security? What do you like about XeroBank, what do you like about other services? What do you dislike about XeroBank (beside your thirst for internal knowledge), what do you dislike about other services? What would you change? And thank you for the compliment on the website, I'll let the designers know.

  4. JokersWild

    JokersWild Registered Member

    Mr. Prishnikov;

    You have tendered your remarks as your $.02 worth.
    And I'd gladly return your change: $.02

    While I support your right to your views, I reserve the right to judge them as they are: FUD:

    Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.

    Your pattern is the same. You appear suddenly, out of the blue, launch vicious, personalized attacks against Xerobank, and then disappear. This time will be no different.

    The last time you did that was your fanboi support, a few months back, of some fictitious character who "claimed" to have been burned by Metropipe. When pressed for details and a further explanation regarding the incident, there was none. Nothing but stone cold silence. The silence was deafening.
    Attack, and vanish. Until the next time..

    You accomplished what you set out to do: Fly in, drop bombs and disappear. Whatever credibility you may have enjoyed, sadly has disappeared.

    Your logic, old, tired. Xerobank=Metropipe=Cryptohippie. Nothing new.

    Your tone caustic and harsh.

    And increasingly more desperate.
  5. snowdrift

    snowdrift Registered Member

    Doh! Well don't leave us good Xerobank subscribers hanging! What happens on 1 Aug. 2009, Steve? That's when Windows 7 betas expire, right? (snickers)
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2009
  6. markoman

    markoman Registered Member

    Well, I don't have elements to discuss the logical security of your servers, but what about the physical security? Why would german swat need to use helicopters and machine guns to get physical access to your servers? They are placed in datacenters owned by XB? Defended by armed personnel ready to die in a fire fight with the swat? This is not believable.
    I guess it would be more likely that a couple of cops shew up at the datacenter where your servers are host, show a warrant and gain physical access to it.

    Was it a joke the swat thing? :)
  7. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

    Data Centers are like banks, except with stronger protection. They are physically guarded, and are practically never reported about when there is an attack on one, state sponsored or criminal. There was a datacenter in NY that was robbed twice in one year. They used precision explosives to blow holes in the wall and steal millions of dollars worth of hardware. Just recently in Dallas there was an FBI raid of a datacenter where they took all the hardware from the datacenter. The state brings riot gear, tear gas, and automatic weapons to peaceful protests in the USA. The protestors have no weapons. Datacenters are often physically protected with armed guards, sunk pillars, spike strips, etc., and some are even built into mountains or deactivated nuclear bunkers.
  8. snowdrift

    snowdrift Registered Member

    So was the swat team ref. a joke, Steve? And what of 1 Aug.?
  9. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

    No joke. August 1st is the date we release DeAnonymizer.
  10. snowdrift

    snowdrift Registered Member

    Ah, yes. You had mentioned that before.

    Well, I will keep to Xerobank. I have enjoyed my first 2 weeks. I hope you can prove many other providers piffle and codswallop.
  11. axle00

    axle00 Registered Member

    Wow someone is having a bad day....

    From their website:

  12. axle00

    axle00 Registered Member

    Steve what is DeAnonymizer?
  13. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

    You know how XeroBank has this gold-standard reputation for our anonymity, but you get people like Genady that have no clue why? Well, gold is about as good as tin if you're blind. DeAnonymizer is the first true measuring stick for comparing anonymity services. You can visit using any service you like, and the DeAnonymizer will try to break your anonymity through a variety of attacks. You'll be able to see just how good (or bad) your provider is. Not only will it try, it will probably succeed, and then go on to tell you where it thinks you really are located and your true IP address. As tested, it will defeat Tor, JAP, Jondonym, Ironkey, Anonymizer, Proxify, all web proxies, probably every ssh tunnel, and most VPNs. You'll be able to see just how other providers stack up as users will be able to designate what network they are using, and see live statistics. And yes, it does true DNS leak testing.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2009
  14. Genady Prishnikov

    Genady Prishnikov Registered Member

    Let's see....I've been a member of Wilders since March of 2006 and have over 300 posts. You joined a few months ago as a shill to protect Steve and Kyle and Xerobank.

    So, it's a pattern if I don't post once a day or once a week or once a month? I respond to Steve's ridiculous claims when I feel like I want or need to. Much like you do, Ky....Joker's Wild.

    Fanboi support? Without doing a search, I have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe I did support somebody who had problems with Metropipe - sounds like you have problems with people who have problems with Xerobank, Metropipe, Cryptohippie.

    Steve, The "gold standard" of anonymity services? Really? Most all references I can find on the Internet to XB are posts from this forum and mentions of the free XBBrowser. You are in a serious state of self-delusion about Xerobank. I'll say it again - I don't believe XB is in the top 50 of such services.

    As for the "Xerobank Team" - anybody can pay people a few bucks a month to be a whatever title you want to give them. Remember Enron? FULL of people "officially" serving in shell companies who did NOTHING. Some were college buddies who let their names be used. You trust that "team" at the XB website? Really?
  15. fuzzylogic

    fuzzylogic Registered Member

    Its disappointing that another good thread has turned into a yet another scream fest, with no-one the wiser and no-one the winner. Theres an old internet saying, 'Don't feed the trolls', the more you feed them the bigger and more annoying they get. I miss the good days of this privacy section where it was just about plain facts and new products coming out and people solving privacy issues. Now its turned into somewhat of a troll plain, people pointing fingers getting the higher 'apparent' moral ground and then people awaiting the arrival of the messiah steve, to rip apart any good thread with usually what reads as a marketing pr exercise about xerobank. its really trying and i couldn't care less about this section anymore expect when the one or two good threads that come out.

    So heres a great idea, stop feeding the trolls, if you want to feed them, use the 'PM" button instead, two, could steve take a break from flooding every thread with 'xerobank'. Don't get me wrong, your insights are interesting but the constant flogging of xerobank isn't. Its old hack and its marking it hard for new users to post here without getting a balanced view, how about giving it a rest for a month and just posting some good views on products.
  16. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

    If people stop asking Qs about XB and starting threads about it, I'll stop answering their questions about it. Nothing would make me happier than if it was all taking place on the xb forum... except maybe if the SWANSAT project got their funding. Maybe it needs a subforum. Nite.
  17. markoman

    markoman Registered Member

    Steve, really, I am not questioning the security of data centers, I am questioning the fact that the armed guards would fight the swat team... A regular warrant would be enough to let the investigators in.
    Please, point to some case of swat entering a data center.
  18. n33m3rz

    n33m3rz Registered Member

    I know data centers running Tor nodes have been raided by SWAT teams before, as have operators of Tor exit nodes. Think of it this way. People that do illegal **** online that goes beyond torrents are usually raided by swat teams, task forces, whatever.

    Those door kickers, good at their jobs as they may be, usually don't know jack shat about the internet. So in the rare cases where the IP address that did a no-no is on the Tor network, its gonna be the person running the exit node who gets raided.

    Helicopters, SWAT teams, ETC; sounds like major over kill from our educated perspective (WTF are helicopters going to have to do with tracing someone back over Tor?)

    but keep in mind 9 / 10 times LE doesn't really understand computers or the internet that well, and you end up with mr. Exit node being hit with the force that was designed for Mr. Pedo (or Mr. Whoever the hell needs black helicopters on him).
  19. markoman

    markoman Registered Member

    Data center and individuals running exit nodes are not the same thing. While somebody running a tor exit node might be confused with the criminal the swat was sent for, this cannot happen with a data center. In data center there are thousands of machines, belonging to many different companies/privates. Such data center are physically well protected, and armed guards take care of security. Such armed guards will not fight back the swat team. They won't even fight back a legal warrant... which actually they couldn't fight back.

    Xerobank's machines are in datacenters in which you and I could have a machine as well. So for sure they are well protected buildings, but we are not talking about military grade protection.

    On the other hand, believe me that not all cops are so dumb, and very specialized internet/technology agents are on service in any state in the world. Many more than you can even imagine. And you don't need to look into secret services to find one.

    So, I do not believe that any swat team ever tried to get xerobank's servers... and I don't believe that it will ever happen.

    Also, steve, what would xerobank if netherland's justice asked to have access to all the machines physically in Netherlands?
  20. SteveTX

    SteveTX Registered Member

    The guards aren't there to fight against state troops with warrants.

    Hard to deny reality. I'll dig up info on the raid. I *think* it was in 2007 in Germany, but it may have been in Italy.

    They would get physical access of course. Physical access is not a threat to compromise XeroBank data or clients, so we don't worry about it at all. I wonder why people seem so stuck or to care about physical access. Well I guess nobody else is running heavily encrypted tripwired servers for their service, so that could be a valid question.
  21. markoman

    markoman Registered Member

    I'm looking foeward to get this info about the raid.

    Well, physical security is fundamental, and I am sure you have often heard experts saying that there is no security without physical security. It can get extremely hard to protect a machine that is in the hands of your adversary; but I have no doubt you know well about this.
  22. tuatara

    tuatara Registered Member

    An lot of things in this thread: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/archive/index.php/t-72654.html are even true today, years later.
    Every anon service provider will claim that their connection is safe.
    You just have to TRUST that provider that is really so.
    And that he will not keep log files. There is no way to be sure...
    Are the servers really on a safe location? and cannot be hacked ?!?
    Of course Xerobank might be safe as the owner claims why not?
    But on the other hand, is he who you think he is?
    For the average user it will always be a guess.
    For the record i don't know if Xerobank is safe..
    There is now way to be sure!
    There is no guarantee,
    like 'if anyone else will get/tamper info regarding the traffic over our network, we will pay you 1 million Dollars or so'.
    www.surfola.com claimed to be safe as well (see the link above)...
    I hope Xerobank will be safe and not be run be a agency or group of hackers .

    Another thing is that i would like to ask Wilders mods to keep an eye on this Privacy software section,so it will not to get into a advertisement for 1 anon product company because this company is presented here all the time and others are not, or open a section for this company and remove the current section name.

  23. LockBox

    LockBox Registered Member

    It all comes down to trust. You do your research and look at the backgrounds of the people involved and make a decision one way or another. Steve's activism in this area came ahead of Xerobank. For me, that's very important.
  24. fuzzylogic

    fuzzylogic Registered Member

    Police come in roit gear and helicoptors (if nessicary) because of tactical reasons not because they can. They have no idea what they are up against, it only takes on person to make a situation go completely wrong and for things to go bad for everyone not just the police in general.

    on the whole subject of physical security for data centres. they are there to protect against theives and corporate security rather than shoot out with authorities. Armed guards would be a last resort for most data centres unless they are hosting big clients with data that costs them vavlable time and money or in countries where police aren't so reliable. Also people build data centres in places like abandoned nuclear bunkers for good reasons, they are secure, were built with electronics in mind so they are dry and well good ventilaton and are generally EMP shielded, not cos some government agency is going to nuke them.

    Most data centres also have a policy of only letting people whom own servers in, and only well supervised, you're only allowed near your server and no-one elses, and having any items ie removable storage, mobile phones, etc removed from said person. I at least know that to be the policy of data centres around the my area.
  25. Bubba

    Bubba Updates Team

    Unfortunately that's where this thread has evolved :cautious:

    We can only hope the next discussion involving privacy program comparisons can be about the programs and less about the developers,"Helicopters, SWAT teams, ETC".

    As this thread lost it's usefulness long ago, it's now closed.

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