Which are the top-tier AV programs ?

Don Pelotas,
Thanks for the clarification.

TNT,
I honestly do not know much about Kaspersky as a company. I was basing my conclusion on their size on what I've read in this forum and on my misunderstanding regarding the photo. When I saw the photo my first thought was, "My God...this software is developed by a group consisting primarily of young teens, less a couple that looked older." [no offense intended to the guys in the photo or teens, although I will say that the group could use a little diversity as I don't remember seeing any women. Maybe KAV could further improve their product by adding a woman or two]

At any rate, are there any programs that don't play well with KIS 2006? I'm primarily concerned about Ad-Aware, SpywareBlaster, Spybot Search & Destroy, Spysweeper, and Zone Alarm Internet Security.

 

I completely agree with Iceni. People keep saying NIS & NAV 2005 and 2006 are much better and improved versions over 2003-2004, support apparently is not bad as it used to be... So what! What do I care, it's not going to wipe out my terrible experience with Symantec products, e.g wasting 150 US $, I want to feel free to air my dissatisfaction (this is not bashing).

If Symantec is going to loose some future customers because of negative comments about their products, it is part of the free market forces which are based on the competitiveness of companies - period.

Aigle, you had no issues with NIS and McAfee but if you had to buy you would choose KAV or NOD, nothing else. What are then your criteria for your choice?

 

The only cases I've run into with KIS 6.0 are programs that hook the same low level system calls. Basically, don't duplicate functionality in the programs and you should be fine - I certainly wouldn't try to install KIS with Zone Alarm IS installed. I believe the others listed should be fine.

Blue

 

Blue,
Thanks for the quick response. What firewall is it that you use? I really like ZoneAlarm. In my opinion it is one of the best firewalls available. Norton Internet Security seems to have made some improvements in its firewall and has earned its way onto my RADAR. Why are you so adamant about not running KIS with Zone Alarm? Essentially, I'm looking at two possibilities. Either, sticking with NAV and migrating from ZA to NIS as a firewall; or (more likely) sticking with ZA and migrating from NA to Kaspersky [however, you are advising against this]. I guess there is always the option of leaving things the way they are (NAV + ZA).

 

I am not supporting Symantec or McAfee. I jsut wanted to tell that if some prople have issues with them, it does not mean that majority has these issues. Especially I am looking it from an ordinary user,s point of view, many of whom may not be knowing more than few AV names.

About my choice, I stated my experience with Norton and McAfee that it was not bad, especially with McAfee. Did I say that I found them the best of all?( BTW, I used them as I got them free)

My opinion about KAV or NOD is totally based upon opinions of the users from this forum( before that my choice was McAfee). But if I am going to buy, sure I will first try them, and if my expectations are met, only then it is going to be my choice.

 

According to Eugene Kaspersky, Kaspersky Lab is included between the "second tier" companies in the AV industry; after Symantec, McAfee and Trend Micro there is a group of a few companies, including Kaspersky, whose annual turnover is inferior to those three (hundreds of millions of dollars), but it's still tens millions of dollars: http://www.viruslist.com/en/analysis?pubid=174405517

 

Depending on setup, it is currently either LooknStop, Outpost Pro, or the one integrated into KIS 6.0. While you obviously shouldn't have multiple firewalls available, KIS 6.0 does provide a very granular install procedure that allows you to select the specific modules installed. If you have another firewall in mind, simply opt for KAV instead of KIS, or if you want flexibility down the road, KIS and do a custom install.

Mainly because you had both listed as the IS (Internet Security) flavors, which are the combined AV/firewall/etc.. I'd assume KAV and ZA (firewall only) to behave very well together, though I have no personal experience with that combination.

KAV and ZA firewall should be fine. KIS and Zone Alarm IS are another matter - I'd expect significant overlap and conflict is very possible.

Blue

 

I guess I wasn't specific enough. I use ZA IS rather than the firewall only product, primarily to incorporate the IM Secure feature. I have the AV component of ZA IS disabled.

Regarding KAV, I will have to look into the KIS option and the unleaded version to see the differences. I did not realize that KIS contained a firewall. What ever happened to the good ol' days when anti-virus companies focused all their efforts on viruses and firewall companies spent their money developing superior products to secure ports? Now everyone wants to do everything and I'm not sure that anyone is doing anything well.

One example, then I have to get back to work. Image for Windows / Image for DOS was ranked 7th overall in a review of the best imaging programs. Why so low? The reason was entirely related to being too simple. Not having the bells and whistles. Nevermind the fact that it does what it proports to do very well, better than any of the others in my opinion. My point is that there is something to be said for doing one thing and doing it better than anyone else.

 

dallen,

That's the mass market at work

As for KAV/KIS, take a look at the custom install options. They really did do a good job here. Parts that you decide not to use can either be disabled from within the program, uninstalled using the standard Add/Remove Programs dance, or not installed during the initial program installation. Much prefered to disabling installed features, particularly low level ones (e.g. the proactive defense module) IMHO.

Blue

 

Need women for diversity? Nonsense. If a woman is well qualified and they need her expertise then fine. The PC stuff is always degrading to the quality of a product.

I know this is not the issue, but I cannot imagine such.

Jerry

 

Jerry,
I did not mean it from a PC standpoint. Actually, it was intended to add a little humor and not as a political statement of any kind. Therefore, I retract that statement in an effort to keep this thread moving in the direction it was intended.

 

Please accept my apology. I wondered if that was the case, and I overreacted.
Sorry.

Jerry

 

No need to apologize. Everyone has their views on sensitive issues. My intention was not to raise one of those sensitive issues here.

 

Blue,
It looks like you were right about KIS. It seems to be very similar to ZA IS in that it is designed to be and AV, firewall, etc. all in one kinda thing. I have two more questions, then I'll let you get on to more important things.

1. I noticed that KIS 2006 RC is out. Do you know when the real deal is supposed to be released?
2. Related to question 1. Will the KAV 2006 regular AV without the IS be released at the same time?

 

No official date as far as I have seen. It is out of beta, into technical release, so very soon. My best guess would be prior to the end of April

As far as I know, yes. Beta builds were carried together.

Blue

 

Kaspersky UK have stated sometime in May for the commercial release of both products

 

Knowing about the company is one thing, understanding the real things why something is like it is is another one. I'll try to explain this...

It is a proven fact that a lot of talented people (especially for the AV development and VirusLab purpose) having its origin in eastern countries. If you take a closer look to several AV companies (and if you would know the people there) you will easily understand what i mean. Because you don't i'll try to explain this to you too.

Especially russian/ukraine people are very strong in reverse engineering, such as analyzing a runtime packer stubs and creating a unpacker for it. A very good source for such talented people you will find for example at www.wasm.ru. That's the good thing. The drawback of this is (and please don't get me wrong, i don't mean that in the particular case of kasperksy) is that some of them (not all!) tend to finish their work "quickly" without proper QA, meaning it does the job but might produce problems under special circumstances. I think that i can judge this, because i headed quite some time a mid-sized team of 650 guys, a lot were from ukraine. (AV development)

If you are looking for example for some kind of unpacker - you'll find it on a russian server, a polish server or a rumanian server. If you take a closer look to AV companies you will easily notice that these peoples are really assigned to tasks which i mentioned above! I give you only a few examples...
Kaspersky speaks for itself. It's without any doubts the master of static unpacking. Then, AvertLabs (McAfee) for example - Igor & Alex. Igor is heading the VirusLab and Special Detections, Alex (the other russian guy) is (how can it be other) developing unpackers for AvertLabs.

You have many AV companies sitting in Russia/Ukraine - does this suprise you? Dr Web, VBA32, Kaspersky, UNA, ProAntivirus (formerly known as STOP! Antivirus) and lots of other small (not so wellknown) companies.

 

Inspector Clouseau,
I appreciate the explanation. It sounds like you really know your stuff about the anti-virus market and I want to thank you for taking the time to outline that for me. I don't doubt what your saying at all, but I do have one question. Why does Symantec, a non-Russian/Ukraine company, lead in marketshare? Since Russian/Ukraine companies seem to be the best, wouldn't it seem that a Russian/Ukraine company should consume the most marketshare?

Actually that was two questions. Thanks again for your time and insight.

 

It's called patriothism. People tend to buy local stuff first, even if they know that something else could be better. Because they think that they support the own country with that. Ask someone in India for example (except Firecat and Kalpik from this forum here) most there are using completely unknown and insufficient AV programs from their own market - regardingless what other people told them! I'm not saying that NAV is insufficent, i'm only trying to explain the "patriothism".

Another example: Try to sell typically US Software in iran/irak. Good luck with that! You will need it!

There are a lot of "political" things involved which shouldn't be discussed in a security forum. Unfortunately it is like this! Not for everyone as a individual, but for a lot of people (which do not contribute in forums) it is. Some of them do not even know that forums existing.

Let's give another example. As a russian/ukraine citizen and assuming you were unhappy with Kaspersky (doesn't matter for what reason) you would consider first taking a closer look to Dr.Web before considering buying a overseas product where you might expect diffuclties with support and language barriers if there is no local distributor there in your country. (or if there is, but you don't know it because poorly advertising was done)

And speaking about Symantec and their team size: Please keep in mind that Symantec doesn't have only AV/Firewall solutions! So it's no big suprise that Symantec as a company is (much) bigger than other (dedicated) AV Companies. Did you know that Trend Micro has more staff in the Labs then Symantec? If not, now you know.

 

Interesting how people in the West mostly would prefer to go with whatever product they thought best, no matter where it came from, software or otherwise !

By the way, Inspector Clouseau knows nothing, he gets ALL his info from Happy Bytes lol.


StevieO

 

I meet this guy at least once a day when shaving in the morning. Depending on the last evening and the pub-visit time there are sometimes some doubts ie "i do not really know you, but i'll shave you"

 

Actually if you look closer you'll see that europe, eastern part of europe and western part of asia (mostly russian area) is especially talented in this stuff.
Just look how many programs for same purpose is designed in this area which are very high end stuff.
AntiVir (Germany), avast! (Czech), NOD32 (Slovakia), BitDefender (Romania), former RAV (Romania), Kaspersky (Russia), Dr.Web (Russia), VBA32 (Belorussia), Norman (Norway), Panda (Spain), F-Prot (Iceland) and so on and so on.

Even though they aren't leading vendors like Symantec or McAfee they produce innovative high end products that are well respected by AV savvy users worldwide (and by av experts too). Sure there are talented reversers and programers in US or asia but it's very concentrated thing in europe.

 

I thought i heard my name

Well most people here in India use Norton (ofcourse version 2000, with a subscription that expired in 2001 )..

 

Personally, I am proud to be an American. On that same note, I buy products based on quality, value and my needs. My vehicle is a Toyota. Why? Because they make the highest quality vehicle for the price. I will do the same for my anti-virus. Incidently, some people may term it patriotism, others call it ignorance. The reason that I'm in this thread is because I'm leaning towards moving from Norton to Kaspersky because I'm beginning to think that it's a better product. However, I'm not quite there yet.

 

Yub, and if they find out that it's somehow not working/cleaning anymore they install QuickHeal or in the worst case FireAV from Chennai