what is the differnet between AV and AT ?

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by CcCcCcOoOo., Jul 8, 2005.

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  1. WSFuser

    WSFuser Registered Member

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    ah ok, it makes sense now. so if AV companies built AVs so that they could co-exist then there would be less of those so called conflicts?
     
  2. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    This is probably true, but the problem, as I see it is this: If any AV company begins to try to "co-exist", that AV automatically is at a disadvantage since they would have to "yield" to another AV, who then automatically becomes "top-dog". Playing "second-fiddle" is very unhealthy for long-term health (as Netscape discovered) so it behooves each AV company to do whatever it needs to do in order to stay on top of the heap. As you can tell from the discussions on this forum, no one wants to be #2. :)

    The AT vendors have been content, up until recently, to position themselves as cohabitable with AVs, providing a second line of defense against trojans. But now the AVs are rapidly getting into the anti-trojan/anti-spyware business, making the positioning of AT vendors very difficult. For example, if KAV is catching 99% of the viruses and 98% of the trojans, what is then the value proposition of AT vendors? I can see Ewido, A-squared, DiamondCS (via ProcessGuard) trying to carve out "must-have" niches for themselves, but it is very difficult to find and define this niche. But in order to survive, the AT vendors have to become very creative and create important new capabilities for themselves in order to make their technology "must-have". So far, I am impressed enough with Ewido's capabilities to keep in running on my machine alongside KAV (it actually catches stuff in on-demand scans that KAV misses). Ditto for ProcessGuard and RegDefend. We'll see where it all leads. ;)

    Rich
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2005
  3. Rmus

    Rmus Exploit Analyst

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    Hi Rich,

    Can you share what some of this stuff is that Ewido catches (virus or trojan), and have you ever been able to backtrack and determine how this stuff actually gets into your computer?

    thanks,

    -rich
    ________________
    ~~Be ALERT!!! ~~
     
  4. tuatara

    tuatara Registered Member

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    i totaly agree with that..

    Ewido and A2 (squared) are more MALWARE scanners then specific
    AT's and they find malware that your AV,AT AS does not.

    Like dialers, trojan-downloaders, tracking cookies etc.

    I have found lots of things with it that Kaspersky and TDS-3 etc. did not find.

    So i have no idea what else i could use for this purpose,
    with other words for the insiders (Wilders readers / if PC Security is your job/hobby) A2 or Ewido is a must have ..
     
  5. tuatara

    tuatara Registered Member

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    BTW , you can run A2Free from BARTPE, that makes it a super must-have.

    ;)

    btw: TDS-3 , Trojanhunter etc. can't be run from BARTPE.
     
  6. puff-m-d

    puff-m-d Registered Member

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    Just a reminder:

    This thread is about "what is the differnet between AV and AT ?" and is not about any specific products. Let's try to keep this discussion on topic and refrain from personal remarks/bashing. If anyone wishes to start a topic concerning what it takes to clean a machine, any "hidden agendas", submitting samples, the pros/cons of any specific product, etc., then please feel free. So far the thread has been fairly informative and I would hate to have to close this topic.

    EDIT: Thanks for all parties involved for voluntarily deleting their off-topic posts....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2005
  7. Rmus

    Rmus Exploit Analyst

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    Hear Hear!

    Rich, can you go back to my post - just wondering whether the stuff you refer to was mostly virus or trojan, and how you think it got on to your machine.

    thanks,


    -rich
    ________________
    ~~Be ALERT!!! ~~
     
  8. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    Hi Rmus,

    They were mostly trojans and keyloggers. Keyloggers were more prevelent than I would have normally predicted. One machine had three different keyloggers.

    I do not know where they may have come from since the users in this case were intermittent users of the Internet, mostly using it for email and financial type transactions. None used P2P or intentionally frequented "high risk" sites.

    Rich
     
  9. Rmus

    Rmus Exploit Analyst

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    I was referring to your comment about your own machine - just curious if you were able to pinpoint the intrusion.

    -rich
    ________________
    ~~Be ALERT!!! ~~
     
  10. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    Hi Rmus,

    Are you talking about recent intrusions? There haven't been any seen I installed KAV, WormGuard ProcessGuard, and RegDefend. Prior to that, there were trojans and spyware which I could never quite pinpoint the sources though they may have been associated with some blog and/or related sites. But they could also be from totally innocently looking sites, since after I installed KAV, I noticed that certain very benign looking sites were in fact anything but. It is difficult to say, since the symptoms inevitably start appearing much after the apparent time of infection. Malware usually don't announce themselves. :)

    Recent "malware" that has been detected by Ewido on-demand are largely tracking cookies and "remnants" of malware (e.g. BingoFun) that as far as I can tell were benign.

    I hope this answers your questions. I think it is best that this is the last answer that I give on this thread concerning my own personal AV/AT experiences, since as Kent recommended, we stay on topic which is AV vs. AT and not my own personal experiences with AV's and the reasons I began purchasing various ATs.

    Rich
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2005
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