VMWare Player vs FDISR

Kennyboy, I started my Virtual Machine journey with Parallels.
It feels a lot like Microsoft Virtual PC. It works really well and smooth. I think that VMware has the most features of all.
For me, I'm happy with the free MS-VPC.
You will be able to install Parallels/VPC/VMware in your snapshot on C: and store the virtual harddrive on a different disk.

 

Forgive the stupid questions, but I must admit that this virtual stuff is WAAAAAAY over my head.

Using Microsoft's freebie Virtual PC 2004, could I install a Virtual PC inside of one of my many Snapshots? If so, whenever I use that Snapshot to update another, would I now have two Snapshots with a Virtual PC? Thanks.

Acadia

 

Acadia, each Virtual PC requires a Virtual Harddisk, which takes disk space (for example 16 GB), unless you store that on a second partition it will reside in your FD-ISR snapshot and it will be copied when you copy/update snapshots.

Anyway, this is what I did:
I cleaned out a VPC with OEM installation and compacted it. Then I created two differencing vHDD's based on that OEM vHDD.
It works as expected, now I have two installations ready to go and they live their own lives.

Notice in this picture that win_xp01 had IE7 and win_xp02 hasn't. Still both are derivates of the same OEM.
I needed to change the system names, since they were initially identical and on the same network.
No reinstallation or imaging needed anymore, just create a new derivate of the optimized OEM VPC!

On top of that: I have the OEM vHDD on a different hard disk (call that pseudo RAID, Peter).

http://www.geocities.com/wilbert_vanbakel/grapgics/vpc001.png

 

wilbertnl.

Many thanks for the great info. As you say I can have the Virtual HD on my Ext disk, would that disk then contain the OS, or does the VM just use it for storage of data etc?

Your reply to Acadia has me totally lost. You are referring to:- 1. a Virtual PC, and 2. Virtual HDDs (vHDD) As I dont yet have any of these programs, I must be missing a basic principle here.
Are you saying that you can create several vHDDs inside a Virtual PC or......... several VPCs, each with several vHDDs inside them?
As yet I cant see the point of creating more than one vHDD inside one VPC. I know I am missing something vital. Could you explain more please?

Acadia. ...Bet you I am more lost than you are....

 

By doing what you've done, you now have multiple "machines" that take up a heck of a lot less space this way.

 

It's probably a good idea to call them "virtual machines" or VM's, whether they are built in MS VPC or VMWare. Keeps things less confusing that way.

There really isn't any point to having another disk, for say the pagefile, in a virtual machine unless the second virtual disk resides on a separate physical disk. It is a good idea to put any virtual drives on a disk separate from where the VM software is installed.

 

kennyboy :

VMWare has been around longer, and just works! Parallels has a version for Mac although since August so does VMWare. Both Parallels and VMWare are very stable.
Parallels is fast and considerably cheaper at $49.99. If you buy VMWare Workstation before the 31st you get $50 rebate. Parallels cost more for the Mac and imo this was because they were the only player in the ring for intel Macs at one time but then again I think it contains the 'Compressor.'
I wouldn't say there's much difference that makes Parallels easier, both Parallels and VMWare are pretty easy to pick up, have all the relevent help and both have a support forum although Parallels isnt a patch on VMWare community and forum.
VMWare has free Player (and Server) version but cannot do what Workstation or Parallels does although there is easyvmx.com that you can download the files needed for the os you are going to use.
Parallels does the same job as Workstation and is comparable side by side. In some peoples opinions it surpases VMWare Workstation in some, personnally I like VMWare and been using it and been supported by them for years, a very professional company and mature program - industrial strength virtualization.
I believe at the moment Parallels has a lack for certain graphics, might be something to think of with Vista and has issues with USB.

 

Meriadoc and Charincol

Many thanks for your useful info. It gives me more food for thought, and I will come back with more questions no doubt.

 

The virtual Hard disk contains the operating system and other files, just like a regular hard disk.
The virtual machine holds the settings of the CPU, 'hardware', and memory, you are able to adjust the size of memory (only limited by physical memory) and the process priority. For example you can let the virtual machine run slower when you minimize the window. You can setup the virtual machine to access your CD or to access an ISO (install Windows from ISO!), to access the floppy drive or a floppy image.
Each virtual machine is able to mount three virtual harddisks or to mount real harddisks/folders.

So, I can start a win2000 virtual machine and perform disk management on the other virtual harddisk that holds the configuration of a win XP virtual machine. (Don't need BartPE anymore) I also can have several different virtual machines that use the same virtual hard disk, but have different 'hardware' setups. (I don't know if that is useful, but it's possible)

You are also able to boot from floppy/CD into an existing VM.
I have done that to verify the virtual partitions with Partition Table Doctor. The verdict is a healthy status.

Right now, I have a win2000 vHDD and a winXP vHDD. I have three different VM's, one with win2000 and two with winXP, different setups based on the same vHDD as you can see in the picture in my previous message.

I did setup a second vHDD for the pagefile.sys, thinking that each system vHDD would be smaller, but I'm reconsidering this setup. It is possible, though.

What do you think?

 

I have seen software that stores evaluation records online. And you are permitted to one evaluation in six months...

 

Allright, here the Virtual PC version of a similar test:

I already have a optimized and compacted installation vHDD (oem). I created a second vHDD, named Acronis, setup as differencing from oem..
I booted in Acronis, all fine, then I rebooted into the Disk Director CD and cleared the vHDD partition table. A reboot resulted in the expected boot error. Then I closed the session and committed the changes to the Acronis vHDD. I opened the same session and verified that it's damaged.

Then I created another differencing vHDD from the oem vHDD, named bigsmile. I booted into bigsmile and verified that it boots normal.

So, the root (here named oem) of differencing vHDD's is totally immune.

Want to test, get infected or just have fun? Play in a differencing vHDD and when you are finished throw it away...

 

Just to add a little more information to the mix.

I have now installed the VMware Converter into an FDisr snapshot, together with VMPlayer.

It was easy, if a longer process, to create a hot clone of my Windows host.
A hot clone is making a copy of the host, while still running within that host. There is apparently the option to make a 'cold' clone using a bootup disc. I haven't checked this out yet.

I now have a clone of my original Windows install - call it clone.vmx. This is just launched with VMPlayer like any other *.vmx.

First thing to notice is that VM introduces it's own virtual hardware. The effect of this is to launch the Window's activation dialogue, giving me 3 days to activate my clone.vmx Windows. Understandable as it 'believes' it has detected a change in hardware that might indicate an install on a different physical machine.

I tested to see what happens when you try to create a virtual machine within the virtual machine. FDisr will run, but not give access to the snapshots to reboot within the VM. VMPlayer will not permit a machine within a machine.

Tks for an informative thread.

 

Ok Guys. Have taken the plunge and installed the trial version of VMWare Workstation.
Have created a VM and a vHD on an external USB Drive of 8GB. Everything seemed ok at this point, but as it recommended that I disable booting from the CD of course I couldnt load the OS. (Win XP)
So, I copied the FDR snapshot to leave it without VMWare and re-installed this time leaving the CD to boot from. Still not able to install the OS. Nothing shows on the VM screen at all apart from the VM logo, with the setup (f2) and the Boot (ESC) screen at the bottom. As I have no keyboard working in the VM it is impossible to get to either one of these, but then would it make a difference if I could?
The Windows install screen did show, but only on the Host screen. The other thing I noticed is that I had no keyboard access on the VM but did have mouse.
So, I made an ISO image of the OS and tried to get the VM to see it. I pointed the CDR drive to the ISO image but it doesnt boot at all.
Now, obviously after reading as much of the 400pages of help as I can, it is something that I am doing wrong, and I am hoping that someone here can help, BUT...
one thing I did notice is that after coping over the snapshot with my Primary snapshot to leave it clean of VMWare, when I re-installed it, it had remembered from somewhere the settings that I had given the VM on the previous install. ie amount of memory to be used etc. It seems there is a connection between these snapshots somewhere. Really can't make it out at all.
Anyway, if anyone can help me get this OS installed, I would be grateful.

 

I have MS Virtual PC 2007 installed, so my information might be a little different, but I think the basics are the same.
First you need to setup the bios of the VM (yes!) to change the boot order to CD first. I have setup my VM bios to CD/floppy/vHD.
Then you need to attach the virtual CD drive to either your real CD drive or to an ISO.
After that, you reset the VM in order to boot again.
Don't forget to press any key to boot from CD.

http://www.geocities.com/wilbert_vanbakel/graphics/bios.png

 

And all of this to avoid installing AOL on your computer, because you want to listen to CD-quallity AOL radio without the bloat. LOL LOL


Anyway, are you in for VMWare 6 beta?

[MS Virtual PC 2007 beta + VMWare 6 beta. On one PC, please...]

 

I bumped at the first installation error of VMWare 6-beta. Now I try to find my way to the beta forums...
MS Virtual PC 2007 beta was running without glitches.

Interesting how you and I have similar experiences with different software.

 

Welcome to 6 beta.

 

Hi Peter and Wilbertnl.

Many thanks for your help. I would love to join in the fun, but so far have spent the last 3 hours trying to get the VM to boot from 3 different Windows cd's. I'll start from the beginning and give you the runthrough. sorry if its long.

Have tried the settings in VM on 1, Auto detect, 2, Drive H (CD Rom) 3, Drive J (Dvd RW) All on IDE 1:0. Then tried changing to "Use ISO image"

The results with the CD's were this:-

Insert Windows Disk....get Windows install screen on the Host window - exit this - start VM - click in the VM window - press ESC. - get boot screen which showed 1. CD Rom, 2, Removable Devices, 3, HDD, 4, Network Boot.
Selected CD Rom (1) CD Rom spins and then blank screen in the VM. Same with the DVD RW.
When trying to boot with the ISO, I get absolutely nothing at all.
Seems to me that the CD and DVD are booting ok because the Windows install screen is showing but only in the host system. The VM is just not seeing these drives.

A couple of points in your replies I am uncertain of.

Peter - You said I need to leave the CD bootable. Arnt I doing that by asking the VM to boot from it or is there something else I need to do?
Also, I notice that when the VM is started, that the CD Rom settings indicate that the device is connected. So why wont it boot? Also, should I be getting the Windows Install screen in the Host screen every time? Sure it is something simple but maybe I am too simple to see it.

Wilbertnl - You said "Then you need to attach the virtual CD drive to either your real CD drive or to an ISO.
After that, you reset the VM in order to boot again."
Not sure if I am doing this or not. I am selecting the CD Rom drive that is shown in the VM control panel and also selecting the image file to boot from the ISO when I try that.
I cant see where I can "attach" the virtual CD drive to the real CD Drive. Am I missing a basic principle here?

Then...you said - "After that, you reset the VM in order to boot again.
Don't forget to press any key to boot from CD. "

I dont even get the option to boot from cd. By the way, the VM "bios" (LOL) shows booting from CD rom first!

Really sorry for the bother guys, but very grateful for the help.

 

Hold it Guys. May have found a workaround. Not a solution though) Come back to you.

Had a thought about trying a different type of boot disk, so tried ATI, and Bart. BOTH booted in the VM!!.........(Silent scream) Having a close look at the Windows disks now, but all 3 cant be faulty, and why wont it see the ISO image? Incidentally, what do you set the boot to when you use an ISO? I have it on the desktop. I have tried all the settings for it.
Come back to you when I know more.

Thank goodness for FDR as it enables me to start afresh each time I play with the VM settings.

 

Well, Kennyboy, from your messages I get that your understanding is allright.
While playing with both MS Virtual PC 2004/2007 and VMWare server/Workstation 6 beta, I notice that both companies have their own approach concerning features and virtualizing hardware.
If setting up VMWare turns out such a challenge for unclear reasons, I suggest that you give MS Virtual PC 2004 a try.

I don't intent to sound like "that is better", but you could have an easier evaluation. After all, it's all about enjoying what we are doing.