User switching Clarification

Discussion in 'Prevx Releases' started by Dermot7, Oct 2, 2010.

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  1. PrevxHelp
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    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    My self protection is also on Maximum with a Randomized filename (and this is the default installation settings across some of our largest customers).

    Please - check your PMs and visit the link I've provided. This discussion is going absolutely nowhere as we can fix the problem in minutes in a remote support session.
  2. STV0726
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    STV0726 Registered Member

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    Joe:

    I might as well come out and say it. I take a "default deny" approach to PC security.

    A remote support session to me translates into: Let someone directly connect to your computer and make changes. Who it's coming from isn't relevant.
  3. PrevxHelp
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    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    Well unfortunately I don't see a way to help you if I can't see what the problem is. You are currently the only user with this issue and will likely remain that way until we either have another user with the same issue or you agree to remote support.
  4. STV0726
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    STV0726 Registered Member

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    Money-back and license termination would be a desirable solution for me.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  5. PrevxHelp
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    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    Feel free to write into our customer support inbox as I don't deal with licenses but they're already aware that I have spent considerable time reaching out to you directly to correct the issue and you have declined.

    We have many, many options to debug the issue - remote debugging gives you full visibility into what's happening during the session. If you're concerned about software being modified, take an image of your PC (which I imagine you would have already done?) or use a non-production PC for the session.

    Personally, I'm not too bothered at this point - I've already wasted an hour today trying to convince you to let me help you and you are the only user with this issue currently.

    I'm moving all of these posts into the other thread for clarity purposes.
  6. STV0726
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    STV0726 Registered Member

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    I can make a disk image of my drive right now, or run an entire user account in a sandboxed environment, let you make your changes, and then discard them.

    I'm not experienced enough of a PC user to be able to tell visually if anything you load will be malicious, but I am experienced enough to know that just because you claim it will be visual, doesn't mean it will be visual.

    There is absolutely no way to determine what data you collect from and send to my system during a support session.

    I'm surprised that other users on here just seem to trust you and other Prevx techs, although, they didn't anger you guys first, like I did. And, not to mention, you probably have the experience to get my IP from these posts and hack me anyway regardless.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  7. PrevxHelp
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    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    Making a disk image would be the most reliable thing to do as I wouldn't trust compatibility within a sandbox (Prevx requires system access to function).

    It's almost 9pm my time and I do all of Wilders support on my own time - let me know when you've made the disk image but I likely won't be available for much longer this evening but should be able to schedule time on Sunday or next week. I've had time this evening but apparently can't be trusted :p

    In my opinion, it would be quite a bit of work to write software that protects 15+ million people including numerous government organizations and over 100 major banks that has been verified by numerous code review organizations and accreditation companies, make nearly 5,000 posts on a support forum, then introduce some subtle bug which only happens on a single user's PC just so that said malicious person could do something "malicious" without the user knowing during a transparent remote support session using third party software which is designed for remote support. But that's just me ;)
  8. STV0726
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    STV0726 Registered Member

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    You keep mentioning "your own time."

    You have "your own time," so you can use that time to take revenge on a customer that's really aggravating you, and the consequences would be next to zero, because everyone on here would advocate that I deserved it.

    Ok, forget the maliciousness. The point is, when people connect to your computer, it's business, not your computer. They throw files around and load crap with no regard for clean up and leaving junk behind.
  9. PrevxHelp
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    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    This is not the case now or in any professional interaction. I'm conceptually aggravated at my current inability to fix an issue which a customer is having, not at the customer. I'm here as an member of the Prevx team representing a company with customers. Obviously I would not ever do anything malicious as it would not only result in me losing my job but tarnish the reputation of the company (and software which I have spent tens of thousands of hours working on) as a whole.

    This is also not true - every change made on the system is journaled in the log of the remote support applet and all changes can be undone very easily. We have a policy of not leaving "junk" behind and ensuring that any changes made are documented and can be undone if wanted.

    I'm unfortunately out of time for this evening but please send me a PM if you're interested in scheduling a time.
  10. STV0726
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    STV0726 Registered Member

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    And how do you provide remote support for user switching issues if the user accounts are protected by a password or the computer needs to be rebooted?
  11. PrevxHelp
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    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    You have full keyboard/mouse control - you perform the logins and reboot the PC. With the previous user switching issue, it was reproducible if the user account remained logged in and "fast user switching" was used which made it easier to debug.
  12. STV0726
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    STV0726 Registered Member

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    Alright fineeeeeeeeeeeeee. God.

    I need to compromise ALL my security in hopes to FIX defective security.

    I hate life.
  13. PrevxHelp
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    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    If you aren't comfortable I'm obviously not forcing anything, however, I don't see any other way to actually fix the issue. I've spent the last half hour retesting user switching in as many combinations as I possibly could under a randomized install name with maximum self protection and can't make it break at all in build .209.

    Let me know when you'll be available by PM and we can schedule a time.
  14. STV0726
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    STV0726 Registered Member

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    It seems some guy in the beta is having the same issue I had.

    Prevx doesn't start up, and it says Caution Disabled when you manually run it.

    You told him the same thing you told me, remote session time.
  15. PrevxHelp
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    PrevxHelp Former Prevx Moderator

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    I still haven't had any response from him or an answer to the question of waiting two minutes in either case (and in this post: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1762385&postcount=17 he seems to see that it was fixed which would tend to make me think this instance was a stray case, possibly of not waiting the two minutes for the user GUI to load).
  16. 1Jnodder
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    1Jnodder Registered Member

    Re: OFFICIAL RELEASE - Prevx 3.0.5.209 with SafeOnline

    This is him responding: It's hard for me to remember all the stuff going on with this .209. Yes I have waited the 2 minutes and it still has the problem. I also encountered another problem. I changed my self protection settings to medium because P-3 won't allow using the snipping tool on the maximum setting. P-3 notified me that the change will be made the next time I reboot, so I hit shut down from the start menu and my computer stayed on shutting down mode for over 5 minutes. I turned it off with the tower button. It's ok now but I think the user account control is part of this problem asking for permissions from the administrator. IE "Do you want to allow Previx to make changes to this computers hard drive". *puppy*
  17. shadek
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    shadek Registered Member

    My advice would be to have a remote session. I've had three in the past and the issues were _always_ solved.
  18. pegas
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    pegas Registered Member

    @ STV0726
    No offense but I doubt you really do want to correct your issue. Instead of mourning here and evading Joe's help you could already have solved it if you would accept a remote session. If I can speak I have had dozens sessions with Joe and he recorded 100% success in correction of my issues. If necessary I am always agreeing with a remote session even though my laptop is not for testing purposes but rather for working with all my stuff there. You don't really need to be afraid about your security, during sessions you see everything what's going on and you can always interact or close it if you are not comfortable with what Joe is doing. I really encourage you to let Joe help you, doing this you won't help just yourself but all other users as well. I recall that I had a few issues which only myself was reporting but getting them corrected also helped a wide range of Prevx users. Don't forget that people coming down here to Wilders are just a fraction of Prevx users worldwide.
  19. Dermot7
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    Dermot7 Registered Member

    I agree with this, but I've not had a remote session myself when the user-switching issue was readily reproducible. But also not every user
    might want to take that route, and ok, maybe it shouldn't have to be
    employed in a perfect world.
    But how anyone can try to cast doubt on Joe's motives, and even
    trustworthiness, is an unnecessary and immature insult imo.
    STV0726, sorry to hear about all your issues, but I can't imagine any
    company going to the lengths Joe has, to try to help you.
  20. pling_man
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    pling_man Registered Member

    I've never had a remote session either but I'm ready to do so if its ever needed. I'm always concerned about remote sessions and all my private files, finance stuff and my own software projects, but I have these permanently hidden inside a TrueCrypt drive (and backed up). :D

    If you are worried about what PrevxHelp will leave/delete from your computer, why not make an image and then examine the differences afterwards. This is easy enough to do with imaging software that lets you load an image as a virtual drive. Then you can use something like windiff to look at the changes. ;)
  21. MrBrian
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    MrBrian Registered Member

    The user switching problem, an intermittent issue for me with earlier Prevx releases, is a common issue with v3.0.5.209 x64 on Win 7 x64.
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