Tips for Windows 8 users!

The point is that Windows has more apps available than other OSes; that's one of the strong points in favor of using Windows (which is not to say that there aren't strong reasons for the others).

 

Here is a tip to you.
Persons like me that tested all the 8 public betas (even those that had the start menu integrated and activated with a registry activation) would never abandon 7 ultimate to downgrade to a crippled 8 version that has not better performance (at least at my systems) without using its touch capabilities.

Sorry, but the logic of installing crappy apps to make 8 behave like 7 is not in my intentions, because:
a) I already have the original and am in no need of imitations.
b) I want to use an OS as it was meant to be used. And this means to use metro too.

Panagiotis

 

I was replying to this:

MS doesn't give a damn about whether people use DVD drivers or whether they have HTPC or anything. But you 're right. I hope at least, they divert the profit to more relevant things.

 

Right... and this will convince me to upgrade/downgrade from 7 for what reason? Because, I cannot run the exact same apps in 7?

And by the way I am a windows & mac & linux user (3 pcs, 2 laptops, 1 iMac and 1 mac mini) and have no problem finding windows alternatives on the other platforms.
Quantity does not mean quality and this is true for the programs too.

Panagiotis

 

Wild Hunter, you quote the MS Blog like if it was Bible. I posted you the LICENSE of what has to pay and what not. I have nothing else to say.

 

For the whole DVD playback? You didn't. You posted about this. This is only one of those who hold the rights, as I said before.

 

I don't think that was intended to convince you.

As for quality, I agree, it's a bit subjective. But the quantity aspect is unquestionable.

 

It's better than a blog that first says that it isn't MS business to pay anything, but the OEM's business, then they do it for the benefit of the entire ecosystem and then that they don't do it because they 'd have to pay for things people don't use.

And a ridiculous excuse of why they removed Media center. It seems like a good excuse "people don't use it, we remove it. Forget that later we will charge you for it".

Once they make up their mind, i will go find the whole part. Also make up your mind whether OEMs and users gain from it, cause you 've a unstable position on that.

 

Sorry, wrong way to express myself.
With "me" I meant anyone who already has 7 (pro or ultimate).

Panagiotis

 

Then you are absolute wrong, as you don't know everyone reasons, hardware and usage scenarios. Many new features and changes of Windows 8 can be beneficial.

 

In the attempt to oversimplify things you are already spreading confusing and even misleading statements. BTW, you ask if people gain. I just don't see where they are really losing.

 

I do, but i 'd have to re-write my posts, which is futile, isn't it.


Anyway, i found the reason of your distress, aka, the why the "Ultimate" was nuked.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti..._copy_Apple_s_online_only_sales_for_Windows_8

Sales of Home Premium and Pro were higher than Ultimate, so they decided to nuke Ultimate. Probably makes sense to them economically, although i do have one question. Didn't they find it normal that Home and Pro would outsell Ultimate? I mean, what did they expect, that people would run with their cash in hands to buy en masse, the Ultimate? Or why would an OEM, who has to rollover the costs on the final price, install massively Ultimate instead of Home?

First they do these marketing overcomplicated strategies with a gazillion of versions and then they see they don't sell and cut them...

 

What's annoying is that they didn't put AppLocker into the Pro version of 8. That would have been nice of them if they had... Oh well...

 

Let me repeat my question:
How will your:
"But Windows has the biggest and best support from third-party software from all categories. The range of options of third-party software for Windows is bigger and better than for every other OS for whatever reason......
..."
Convince any windows 7 pro/ultimate user to upgrade in 8 when he can already have all those and more in 7?

I'm wrong in what exactly?
That yours, or the articles reasoning, or even MS reasoning (8= 7 but better) are not convincing?
If MS was a charity organization I would gladly give them 40$ or more for some licenses that I'll never use.
But they are not and I (and many others) are not willing to throw away 40$ in an Os that do not like,want or need since it is only as my current OS only worst!
I prefer to use them to buy software or hardware that I need.

Panagiotis

 

The average user just doesn't care as long as the aesthetics don't make it harder to use.

And it's not a matter of 'learning to live with it'; I usually hate 'flat' as well, but I found that I actually like Win8's version. I hadn't used anything from Object Desktop (except Fences) since migrating to Windows 7. However, I anticipated hating Win8's interface so much that I threw down money I couldn't afford to renew; to my great surprise, I found that I liked it, and the only thing I used was Decor8 to customize the background on the Start screen.

The confusion is really due to lack of user education; MS dropped the ball on marketing it, and everyone just sees blog headlines about different "modes" and so on.

It's not "two modes." Windows 8 just has the ability to run the mobile apps. It also has a full-screen Start screen. I anticipated hating this until I understood that, and now I use less software because I have shortcuts for everything I need on my Start screen in an organized way for the first time in Windows' history.

My point for all of the above is that it is simply not as much of an issue as you think.

Generally speaking I agree about the flat style (which I have spent a fair amount of energy emphatically agreeing with you about, leaving me dumbfounded as to why you keep arguing against it), but this:
a) fits in with web apps, which is the direction that nearly all software is going, and
b) otherwise suits modern fashion (the majority of design in the tech world is going 'flat' -- there's no accounting for fashion, and it ALL seems to be going retro right now)
However, c) (once again) Microsoft pulls it off well. I don't know how they managed to do it, but they did
d) they didn't "go flat with Windows 8," they made Windows 8 go with their existing mobile scheme, and
e) they didn't only go this "flat" due to resources; they could have made it 2d without going totally flat without any impact on resources. They took out transparency because of that, but that's not the same thing.

Lastly, Windows 8 is meant to take the first big step along the already existing path of unifying devices, all computing being done through mobile devices, and integrating them more into our life (e.g., more appliances, signs, kiosks, etc., etc., being connected and having functionality). Apple and Google got this trend rolling, and MS is catching up; all indications are that the traditional desktop is on its way out as we make chips smaller and faster (like the 48 core mobile processor that Intel is working on).

Yes, it's a change from what we've become accustomed to since 1995, but they did a good job of keeping the desktop experience fairly familiar. It will probably be harder to jump from Windows 7 to whatever is next.

Maybe you didn't, but others have. How many times have we seen posts here (even in this thread) recommending media player classic or VLC player because it's lighter and better? Do a search for - "windows media player" bloat - (with quotes) and you'll see plenty of people talking about WMP being bloated, removing "windows bloat" by removing WMP, and so on.

However, you're missing the forest for the trees, and arguing semantics. My point is that there are always people unhappy with the changes in new versions of Windows; new apps and functionality are condemned, and so is removing anything. Nobody can make all 500 million users happy. So instead of picking out a handful of issues and needling them to death, consider the bigger picture. DVD playback and a flat theme make a poor overall argument because they don't change the user experience in any significant way. The things that do change the user experience are following a larger overall trend in technology that Windows 8 provides a basic framework for; the real results will show when developers and OEMs start making innovative use of those changes, but until then those things will seem semi-useless. And, of course, having to re-learn the Windows UI after 17 years of only small changes will trigger instinctual objections by nearly everyone (even when you do accept it intellectually). We don't like change, and we really don't like having to re-learn things that have worked so well for so long.

You're right; I was thinking of berryracer's comment; I apologize.

What's added is the framework for a new way of computing, along with performance and security enhancements. Get an Android phone or tablet with the stock Google install of Android, and you could just as well say that it sucks because it doesn't do anything and doesn't add anything to the devices they replace; mobile devices aren't particularly fun or useful until you get them set up the way you want them.

They were kind of prevented from making it any better, weren't they?

It's not that hard to please 500 million users without being condemned when you're under the intense scrutiny of those that have already sued you for making it "too good"? Your judgements thus far seem to be based on your thinking: "I want it, therefore there's no reason that they shouldn't just do it." Reality just isn't that easy for a company in MS's position. Smaller companies can get away with more, but Microsoft has a multitude of companies that will take any opportunity to cry foul and sue, and there is little benefit in pushing the envelope. The best course of action for them is to keep it minimally functional for those that don't care, with APIs to offer developers a way to integrate media into their apps relatively quickly and easily.

ANY business decision is about the balance of cost and reward; so what? Even MS has only finite resources, and they have to decide what's best to spend those resources on. In the end it's about what will appeal to the most users, so that the most people will buy.

I use J River, so it won't affect me, but people that have an XBox and a mobile device will have the ability to play music, video, etc. from any device on their TV, and control it with their mobile device. That's pretty cool, and it's the way things are headed.

There's a whole new framework offering a whole new computing experience with reduced development requirements, while not interfering too much with your desktop workflow. Plus better security. Someone with a good idea can make your next killer app using web development languages. Not bad if you ask me. Integration and consistency between my mobile devices and desktop is something that has been sorely lacking to me.

No, you just implied that I was being personally insulting, and your explanation demonstrates the same defensive stance. Relax, and take a step back; objectivity is good.

In case you haven't noticed, there's been a lot of litigation over a lot less in recent years, and I don't mean just Microsoft. It's easy for us to talk about how things should be based on what we want, but when you scale things up to hundreds of millions of people, then a certain amount of those people will always feel imposed upon. If just one of those people can come up with a good enough explanation then they can use it to sue. What should be reasonable isn't always reasonable to everyone else. Sometimes there are legit reasons, and sometimes it's just an excuse to make a point or just get money.

 

Fuzzfas: One thing that I think you may be missing is that it's totally reasonable and legit to say that you just don't want to upgrade, because it doesn't offer you anything and/or you're just plain happy with what you have, but it's another thing to spend a lot of energy trying to convince other people not to. Spending energy talking about what you enjoy about something serves to try and share that joy; what does it serve to focus this much on your dislike -- the point of hijacking a thread about tips/apps for Win8 users? If it was certain that Windows 8 would make unsuspecting users miserable then that would be one thing, but your main argument seems to be that it's ugly, you'll have to install one more app (if you want to play DVDs using Windows Media Player from a clean install), and you personally don't find value in the mobile apps.

 

I still don't understand your objection here.

The thread is about apps to install on Windows 8.

Some of those apps are to replace removed features, if you want them.

The statement is saying: "a few things were removed, just like every new version of Windows, but the good news is that there are plenty of apps that will do what you want, because Windows has tons of apps."

This is an entirely fair and relevant statement, and I don't see any relevant reason to denounce it.

 

The strength of an Operating system is not its apps.
The strength of an OS is its popularity.
More popular a system -> more developers attracts -> more applications are added.
If windows 8 fails in becoming popular -> the developers will flee versus apple store or google store -> less applications to choose.

Panagiotis

 

Ok, so what is your point in the context of the statement, the article, and this thread (Win8 tips)?

Again, the statement is: "Windows 8 removed some stuff, just like every new version of Windows. But the nice thing is that you have lots of options, because Windows is all about apps." It's also talking about the multitude of apps already available, and not about metro apps specifically.

 

The article starts with:
"So you have made the jump and installed Windows 8 on a computer, or, you are planning to buy a tablet, laptop or desktop PC running Microsoft’s latest operating system....."

To say that the strong point of an OS is its ability to install apps because they are plenty available is a joke... even more when the exact same apps (eg. vlc, gimp, smplayer) are available to the other non windows oses.
But... they are not yet available in win8 RT.
Guess what? That is the exact week point of 8 at the moment. Does not have enough apps in its market to even compare with Android or IOS or OSX.

Let it first attract the developers and the users (or vice versa), and when there are really plenty of apps for the new windows ecosystem post this article.
Not on 3 september of 2012 before the OS was released and in the market were about 5000 apps.

You get why it is a joke now? Some users who may have read that article have bought the surface and could not install any of the apps described in it.

Panagiotis

 

I get the feeling that you haven't read the article. All of the software in the article is desktop software, and the amount of software available for Windows is not relevant to the article, nor is RT or anything relating to the Windows Store. It's standard utilities of the type that people around here use and love, but the list is stuff that may be of particular interest to people using Windows 8 (not RT), such as RecImg (adds functionality to the built-in backup) and VLC Player (for watching DVDs).

 

Ok.

It's rather obvious that you don't hate it. If you did, we wouldn't have arrived to this point of discussion. I was saying that I could live with it too.

Maybe. Maybe it's ill conceived. MS did spent the biggest money she ever spent in pubblicity campaign. At some point, nobody will save you from your own errors. Also, it's not exactly a secret that many customers out there aren't exactly computer buffs. They may use mobiles or desktops, but in basic mode. These freak out easily if they see something they can't recall as familiar. It's not that MS didn't have any hint either. As i said before, even her beta testers were bitching about the start button. But MS chose to ignore them. The only logical explanation i have come up with, was because, MS wanted home users to interact with Metro as much as possible. Cause while mobile market may be growing faster, most people have a desktop or laptop, but not a tablet. So the more users get used to Metro in their existing devices, the higher the chance, when they decide to go buy a tablet, that they will be driven away from the "Apple fame" to something "familiar". But you can't always kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

You can call it whatever you like. The fact is that is perceived as a dual enviroment from many people, that's why even power users proceed into installing something that will effectivelly eliminate the one from their sight. It works for you as is out of the box, won't work for others.

I continue to think that the flat (transparent is one thing, killing shadows that add "depth" is another), was done to facilitate the smaller devices that need to save as much power as possible to be able to sport "longer battery life" in their specifications. As soon as smaller manufacturing process allows for lower power consumption, you will see suddently Ms saying "no more flat tiles". Even i, when i want to speed up a game, the first thing i do, is kill shadows in options. It's the least "important" visually thing.

While i agree that it is an attempt (not exactly successful maybe, time will tell) to unify devices, the result is what will matter. I don't think Win8 will be the one to do it. Maybe Windows 9 will and it will be again "Win8 done right". That's all.

I also don't think that the desktop will die as quickly as some of the "Microsoft futurology" theory wants to advocate, in order to justify everything they did (badly IMO) in Win8. There are several tasks for starters that need big monitors and big processing power. Office productivity in businesses will also be die-hard. Pubblic institutions the same (even if for costs reasons only). If desktop was about to die, we 'd know about it. Intel and AMD would halt production and change to mobile only, screen manufacturers would halt their monitor development (instead everyone is working with aim to go over 1080p as "mainstream" resolution in the coming years, to accomodate better the very big monitors' size), etc.

I can't know how Windows 9 will be, but, again, i think the mistake of MS was forcing Metro without the chance to disable it for those who don't want to.
At the end, a company may believe she did all good, but at the end of the day, it's the customers that votes with his wallet... AMD did the same defending her "more core" strategy, as the one "of the future". Thing is, by the time applications can use 8 cores, the current AMD CPUs will be obsolete and Intel will have accumulated so much money, that if 8 cores are really all used up by mainstream applications, she will be able to deliver them and with much higher IPC than AMD. Future is good, as long as it conciliates well with current reality.

Ok,i can't claim that everyone would like a "beefed up" WMP, just because i would. I still use WMP as main player, because it "blends" more with aero and doesn't crash easily since its "system integrated".

Notok, although i agree in general with concept, i will repeat again about "future" and "present". I had posted something similar to Wild Hunter. At the end of the day, if Win8 doesn't go well as market share, MS MUST have done something wrong with it and can't be just the "re-learning" of UI. The UI must be also functional. You or Wild Hunter can repeat ad nauseam all about how the future computing will be done in all mobility etc, but this is NOT the reality and will NOT be the reality soon enough. The successor of Win8 will be out there before it will be a reality. And you probably do a common mistake of "thinking american", which i see in american fora of hardware enthusiasts. They think that the entire world is ready to spend in the "latest and greatest" hardware as easily as the Americans do. This is not true, not for privates, not for state organizations in many other places of the world. The difference is in a different perception of economic reality. The US economy is too much reliant on consumer consumption, since much of its domestic industrial production has shifted to China and on its turn, China finances good deal of the american consumption, by buying US debt. In fact, USA in order to get out of the crisis, followed an expansionary policy. In Europe, it is the complete opposite. Instead of printing money, they try with austerity to fix structural problems of the economies and become less reliant on consumption financed from foreign sources and more about increasing competitivity to bring money inside from abroads. I wish the Americans all the luck, but you can't forever print money to keep your growth up through consumption and hope the Chinese will remain forever reliant on your consumption to keep accepting your newly printed bills. And imagine, that despite all that, the EU countries' average debt, is approaching 90%, which isn't healthy.

The "DVD etc" make poor argument, is just as good an argument as the "Win 8 is great, because you can add Classic shell, download media center, re-enable aero glass", which is basically "you can make it look like Win7 again". That's all. It's like "Or, i can do none of that, keep Win7, plus the poor arguments and also avoid new program compatibility/fees".

Again, the problem here is that you think that the only thing that matters is mobile. The other difference is that nobody is pushing at the same time Android as desktop OS. Some things, for the current reality are good for one purpose, less for another. AMD can also claim that "with out Vishera CPUs, what's added, is trully the possibility for parallel computing, where all applications will be able to harness the true power of your computer". Intentions are good. Reality says, that Intel is what is more "real" about the current situation. In the long run, we will all be dead.

They were surely scared of including the preinstalled version on par with competition. That's for sure. But this is i think , a comfortable excuse to leave WMP completely unevoluted. If you remember, at one time, MS was giving out WMP Plugins and i think that even users could make. There is even a 3rd party plugin, that used to work with WMP, providing the "auto-resume" function. MS broke compatibility for that. And they could release for example such a plugin for free (or even paid, i would pay for it) from their site, without the EU axing them.

I agree you can't please everyone. The thing is, WMP aside, do you think Win8 will please, many? That's the point. You can even say that MS is visionary. But visions, that people aren't ready or willing to follow, aren't visions, they are irrealistic.

Again, i replied to Wild Hunter, claiming that MS didn't do it to save money, but for the benefit of OEMs and users. I never said that MS didn't have finite resources. If they did, they wouldn't care about saving money.

I think the "too much" is where the Win8 will fall in the trap. Integration is fine. The question is whether the one made in Win8, was the optimal for the time being. Sales will answer that eventually.

Don't you have in the US, an expression like "I am not THAT dumb!" when someone is trying to convince you about an argument? Replace dumb with moron. In the US when someone uses an argument that you find irrational and you reply "i am not that dumb", it means that you imply personal insult? Objectivity is unknown to the OS argument. Have you noticed that of the Win8 "classical" supporters, nobody ever sees anything "wrong" with Win8 or never sees an "inaccuracy" to correct it? Not just in this forum, in any country's forum. You will see the classical "Win8 is offering upgraded system performance". Tests all around the internet conclude with boredom "similar performance". Yet you never see an "objective" Win8 "supporter" to jump in and say "wait, this isn't an opinion, it's a fact that tests show an overall parity". So much about objectivity. Even when their initially rosy predictions on sales don't come up as they were saying in November, still, "nothing wrong with Win8".

Again, i will agree that one thing can't please everyone. I just make a hypothesis, on that MAYBE it would add selling points to give something "more" to make the product more desirable. MS USED to do that with new versions of Windows. They were throwing in 4-5 new applications or "upgrading" some existent that had "popularity" and this was apparently helping. I mean, at least, in the past versions of Windows, when one wanted to "sell it" , didnt have to simply resort to "you can make it look like Win7".

 

Notok, let me explain you something. I would buy into the argument that the let's say "good guys" (Win8 paladins) are posting all over the internet in a quite aggressive manner and passion, because they are "happy" and "joyful". But that was when i was a kid. If you go search this forum for "Metro", you will be astonished about how long for this "joy" lasts. Months. And that there have been 65+ pages discussions with the same people, who for months, tirelessly, with all their efforts try to convince others not of their everlasting joy, but about how much Win8 is so much better. This doesn't happen only in Wilders'. It happens in any language forum. If an OS was able to give such longlasting "joy" to people, medicine companies that produce anti-depressive drugs, would be out of business and so would drug dealers that sell heroine. One would buy Win8 and would pass months of joy!

Alas, i am not a kid anymore and have learnt enough psychology to know that little Hans didn't really have a fear or horses, but in reality wanted to get rid of his dad, who was "stealing" the affections of his mother, but at the same time he was feeling guilty wanting his dad dead.

You may also be amazed to see, that the first post of this topic, mentions amongst other things "Coudl we have this topic sticky AS WELL"? Why "as well"? Because, the other "sticky" topic, was my topic about "how to downgrade from Win8". And soon enough, Wild Hunter, jumped in to say "how NOT to downgrade from WIn8", but apparently then thought "I must defend Win8 better! I must stop those that read the topic! I will make the "Tips for Win8", that will sway people from downgrading and also ask for it to be sticky too, so i will neutralize the "bad" sticky by Fuzzfas!

You will also find, as i mentioned, that others, spend their energies for MONTHS now, in a Win8 "pro", campaign.

You will also find, in this topic, that i wasn't the first one to post somethin irrelevant to the topic. As a matter of fact, i don't think YOUR post before mine, was about "tips for Windows". This, just to say, i was never famous for sticking on topic, i come to this forum and very often go offtopic, because i don't regard a forum as something strict, i view it in an open way of the "ancient forum", where people would just walk by, say what they want, if someone wanted to listen he was coming by, if not he was going near someone else. That's also why i didn't say to Wild Hunter in my topic "How not to downgrade from Win8" is "off topic" in the topic "how to downgrade"...

Also, you may excuse my late arrival to the "Win 8 wars", but i wasn't one of the "early testers" of Win8. During Xmas holidays it was the time i mostly spent for Win8, so all the "excitement" that the others had since months, i have it now arrived with delay. To that, i have admitted, that i do find a pleasure to "poke" the "WIn8 clan", even more since when i originally posted with calm some things about the OS, i was saluted with direct or indirect adjectives on personal level. This happens all around internet, not just here. Simply this is the english forum that i write into and i see the same thing.

Because, as with most human emotions, this isn't about "joy". You see a pattern (in general internet discussions).

- God, i tried Win8 and it sucks
- Win8 "wolfpack" en choir: What? Are YOU this and that?

Even assuming that one "hates" with all his guts Win8 and isn't objective, how is it that you see hate on an object, being greeted with personal insults or allegations? That's not "joy". It's about projection and need for consensus of successful choice. You feel that the "attack" on Win8, is attack on YOU, because it was the choice YOU made. This evokes hostility and you project your feelings immediately to the others, passing into personal level, because you felt it was a bad comment on your judgement. Deep inside, one wants to assure that Win8 will also be successful, that's why he runs to "cancel" the "damage" that the "bad guy'" sticky has done.

It's the "antivirus gone bad in tests" syndrome if you want. You love your antivirus but all tests come out and your AV is on the bottom. Do you accept the possibility that maybe (just maybe) it really is? The answer lies in Wilder's rules about "Antivirus A vs antivirus B"... It comes with the forum. If you go to a car forum and you go say "Guys, guys, i just paid xxx.xxx $ for this car model" and you have people say "Wow, that car doesn't live up to the hype", you will get the same issue. It's the "you don't want to tell me that i didn't put my money to good use!".


As for my energies, they are mine to spend. In these days i have time to spend, shorty i won't have so much, so you won't have to worry about them and at least i, contrary to others, have accepted that i do it partially because i enjoy "poking" the Win8 users, cause i find their attitude and arguments not convincing (of course they are free not to find mine either), well, when they go into personal evaluations, poking them becomes more satisfying. So i can't say i m objective. But i think i m not less objective than the opposite "camp".

It's also very good practice for my english (in local language fora i quit earlier) and for studying human behaviour. If i end up writing a thesis in psychoanalysis, the posts in Wilders give valuable "real world" material.

Amongst other things, i 've seen:
- People passing to personal.
- People quoting me and later complaining because i keep replying to them.
- People complaining about off topic. (fortunately i am not a moderator)
- People worrying about my energies (i am still young and in good health).

They all mean something beyond what they seem, but i will end up with complaint that i am lecturing in psychology and that maybe i go overboard with personal analysis too... Which i avoid, unless provoked usually.

Regards.

 

Fine, i won't reply to them anymore here, since at least you do have stuck on topic.