Tips for Windows 8 users!

So MS is trying to save money for me and for the OEMs.

Why? Do i or the OEMs share money with MS? I certainly don't! If i don't pay royalty to Windows, i pay it to OEMs and actually more, because no single OEM can get better price than MS would. Because i don't think that OEM's don't make me pay for the royalties either! Last time i knew, everyone (including OEMs) has to pay for royalties to the proprietary company. Even if i buy a standalone boxed blue-ray drive, i PAY for the software inside the box. That's why "boxed" costs more than "bulk". And if i buy "bulk" player, i don't even get playback software, which i have to find for myself and will cost certainly more than $3 that MS royalties cost.

So please, don't tell me it's not about MS saving money.

 

Just to be clear. DVD support (or blue-ray) isn't a deal breaker for me. But it's not bloat either. I still remember Gates in some interviews talking about how the PC was now a "media device for the family" and bla bla bla. I would expect, for the good deal of money they charge and their huge market share, that a "logical" path would be "pimping up" Windows for your media support, not downgrading it. With the "Windows media foundation codecs", it did a step forward. And now one back. And they certainly don't do that out of love for the customer, but rather for their pocket.

That's all.

 

Nice tips guys. Those tips on the 2nd page were extraordinary.

I will never understand those tips which suggest to install ... . Windows key + software's name + enter will result in starting your desired program. That's also available on Linux distros with Unity & Cinnamon. Learn it. The dumbest thing MS did with the desktop mode is that it makes you return to metro when you search for a program.

 

This is not about saving money for you. It's about saving money for Microsoft and those who buy machines without DVD Readers + OEMs that make machines without DVD Readers. They are an increasingly bigger part of the ecosystem. Did you really read that blog post?

There are many free software for Windows available with support to DVD playback. The initial post mentioned one which is actively developed and also FOSS: VLC Media Player.

I'm just telling it's not only about MS saving money. You can negate this all day and night, truth won't change.

 

Ok,ok. Now i see. At least we concluded that it's not about saving for me. For the rest, i quit.

 

i never used the Start menu much in Win 7 so i don't use Metro that much either.

the only thing i used the Start menu for in Win 7 was to launch the Windows defragger once in awhile.
or the calculator.

i'd rather user launchers or a folder with my shortcuts in it.

pretty much the only thing i use Metro for is to check my Hotmail and Outlook emails with the Mail app, and to launch Metro Skype once in awhile.

 

Just think about users buying new machines without DVD Readers. They are the majority nowadays as well as these machines are selling much more than others. Why should they pay for DVD playback royalties? Why OEMs making these machines should pay for DVD playback royalties of these machines? It's unfair and with Windows 8 Microsoft normalized things in this area as much as possible IMO.

 

Oh dear... What do you mean by "machines"? Tablets? Hybrids? Because desktops and laptops come with optical drive. Is there anything impeding Microsoft to arrange to pay royalty per OS installed on desktops or laptops or even per DVD OS, but not on tablets? It's what OEMs do all the time with 3rd party software they pre-install on the devices they sell. They don't put the exact software in a laptop and in a tablet and they only pay royalties for the one they install.

IF MS was to do that, it would spare the OEMs the money to pay ANY royalties, it would probably allow for less cost to the end user that buys OEM and would certainly cost less to the end user that buys boxed or bulk drives.


Of COURSE MS doesn't want to do that, because it's better having the OEMs paying for royalties (rolled then to the buyer) and the end user paying for software in boxed players. BUT I CERTAINLY DON'T EXPECT A MS BLOG TO EVER ADMIT THAT, DO I?

I mean, really, do you ALWAYS BELIEVE what vendors tell you? Should i believe this, because "MS Blog says so"?

NO ****! And i thought it was because they want to charge 9.99$ per installation, after February 1st!

You are the dream customer of every selling company.

 

Yes!

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...ck-and-windows-media-center-in-windows-8.aspx

.

 

I never said that it was better, but it's not as bad as you think. I say that because I thought the same as you before I actually started using it.

I doubt it. The majority don't care about aesthetics as much as you and I do. Most of the reaction I've seen is along the same lines as mine. Many even like it from the start, but most won't care and/or won't care enough to base their purchasing decision on it. Overall it's a good move by MS, though, because it provides consistent design; using Aero on the desktop and the flat design for 'modern' would create visual discontinuity, and people already have too much confusion about "the two modes" before using it.

I wasn't calling DVD playback bloat, I was saying that anytime they add anything it's called bloat, and when they remove something it's called crippling the OS.

I would also hardly call DVD playback 'basic OS functionality.' Win7 removed much more that could be considered basic functionality.

WMP not including every option you want in an media player doesn't make it crippled, and my main point is that MS has to balance functionality with market considerations. It's easy for a person to say that they'd add certain features, but MS can't make those decisions as lightly. It's one thing to state your preferences, but it's another to try to find the right balance to meet the needs and wants of 500 million people in nearly 200 countries, including the laws and preferences of the governments and businesses of those 200 countries.

In other words, it's just not as easy as you make it seem.

Microsoft may not have based the decision to remove DVD playback (specifically) because of lawsuits, but they have to consider the terms of those rulings with any change to WMP, and codecs do fall under that pervue:

This isn't to say that MS removed the codec because of the lawsuits; I bring it up because it demonstrates that these things play into decisions about what they do with WMP. It's not as irrelevant as you make it seem.

With all that said, WMP has actually expanded quite a bit in Windows 8 with the networking features.

If we were talking about installing large amounts of new software to regain functionality previously provided, then I might agree. But you're on a forum for software enthusiasts talking about the need to install one more program. This is also something that will only affect people with fully customized hardware and software that made a conscious decision not to install the software that came with the drive (as opposed to OEM systems, and more novice users that install any and all software that comes with a new retail drive). It's a weak argument any way that you look at it.

You're putting words into my mouth that I find highly offensive. While my style may be argumentative (technically speaking), I do not make this personal; I pick apart ideas, not people. If you're inferring personal insult, then you may want to step back and consider how much you are personally investing into your dislike of a particular piece of software

No, but that's why the built-in functionality isn't as robust as those third party apps. Those companies (or their competitors) did make a lot of noise.

People and companies have demanded all along that Windows provide a basic platform for third-party innovation. These considerations are relevant to every feature they add. Imagine how the AV industry would react if MS included the full version of BitDefender Total Security for free, the way that they do Defender/MSE. We could debate actual effectiveness, but the AV companies would sue for anti-trust violations.

 

On the editions matter, Microsoft is currently pissing me off with the lack of a Windows 8 Ultimate with all the Windows 8 Enterprise features or an easier to buy Windows 8 Enterprise (their licensing options for this edition are too complicated). I sensed a lack of transparency in this area, although they reduced complexity with the smaller number of editions as well.

 

Which is another one of those no-win situations for them. They've gotten a lot of flak for offering too many different editions of Windows (7, I believe) in the past.

Heck, these guys blame them for separating desktop and server editions.

 

1) A very large number of PCs can run Win7 but is not capable of playing DVD? It sounds unbelievable, but i guess one must find an excuse.
2) They never play DVDs. Better as excuse.

Conclusion: They save money. There would also be a 3rd category of users which sees DVD and has DVD, but we ll come to that later.

If the company that ships is responsible for paying, then why in the previous paragraph, the author uses as "reason" the fact that "many PCs don't have DVDs or don't play it?". And why did MS ever bother to pay for Win7? The way he presents it, that's an OEM's problem!

Alas, the devil, is in the details...

So, someone has to pay for the hardware, but ALSO for the software. Microsoft, simply thought to force everyone ELSE to pay for BOTH. If MS was to give the software ability, the OEM or the end user that buys on his own, would have to pay only the hardware royalty. But, with the change of policy from MS, leaves no margin to anyone else. Again, the winner is MS. The OEM has to provide for dvd-blu ray software (and make the user pay) and the user that buys drives on his own, again has to pay for software for the drive.

One thing is for sure, the user isn't the one who benefits.

The only one in the "ecosystem" that saves money out of this, is MS...

"By most predictions the majority of PCs will not even be capable of playing DVDs?" WHY? Will MS nuke my drive? Will graphic cards drop support? When? In 2020? And how about Blu-Ray? According to their predictions they won't be able to run them too?

Amazing marketing...

A more honest approach would be: "Listen, we could make WMP play anything, for 2.50$, which we could absorb in the OS cost with the size we have, but we don't want to. So, we 're quitting and shifting both hardware and software costs to the OEMs and privates who buy on their own.

 

The problem isn't me or you. I could "live" too with Win8, but i see no reason to jump through hoops to get back Win7. Cause there isn't anything i want there, on the contrary, there is stuff i don't want and some i would miss.

The problem is the average user. I 've been in a big computer shop before Xmas. First reaction "nice colours, what is this?". Then confusion. Metro should have been an option. You 've got mobile? Go full Metro. You want desktop and don't like it? Here's the "switch off". But MS wanted to FORCE the dual enviroment, in order to attract buyers for her mobile devices.

Ah, you mean the way that "flat" suits "flat". Ah, yes, i agree. People will mind about Metro in general. Theoretically, Metro tiles could be made to show mode depth and go well with full aero too, but we both know why MS decided to go totally flat... For me the Flatopia is unacceptable in 2013.

I don't think that anytime they added something it was called bloat. It was called bloat when it was something of marginal utility in cases where hardware was low spec. Aero for example was called bloat because machines of that era was feeling heavy and Vista was already too "hungry" for resources. As a result, a user that was upgrading and seeing his machine crawling, had to blame something. Aero, the sidebar, where the first candidates.

I didn't call DVD basic OS functionality either. Whatever was removed in Win7, is also removed in Win8, plus more. With very little added. That's the weakness of Win8 (apart Metro). You see people saying "there isn't anything i want that i don't have".

Notok, i NEVER talked about every option i want. If you go to 3rd party players, you get a gazillion of options. WMP can't even resume playing. I m not talking about "advanced" things like 2 instances running at the same time, postprocessing other than "smoothing", advanced subtitles options. WMP playback features have been STUCK for YEARS.

It's not that hard either.

I think even MS blog will agree that the issue was money. Well, if you like the networking features, more power to you. Most people will find "basic" features lacking and will install 3rd party.

Looking at it individually as 1 program, you re right. It's not OS breaker. The LACK of "new stuff", the metro and the details like that one are what will burry Win8. The fact that i am in a forum about software (not necessarily software enthusiasts), doesn't change the fact that i see something i don't like.

Why, did i say that you called me moron? I said that i feel like i am a moron with that argument. Also FYI, if you search the relevant Win8 topics, i never attacked personally someone for first. It was someone ELSE always who started throwing labeling "adjectives". I will tell you one thing. I haven't seen to this day, anyone of the "objective" posters who regularly defend Win8 (or attack others), to find one flaw and say "this is bad". It's always the others that are haters and non objective.

Notok, i agree that if MS would include BitDefender for free, they would incur, at least in the "EU", in the usual anti-competition clause and they would have to provide "N" version for that too. However, you are bringing this to extremes. MS has the way to deliver a "small improvement". Just like they did in IE, MSE, backup etc, without "stepping on the mine". In the worst case, you can make it like MSE was in 7. It's not preinstalled and nobody can force a user NOT to install it, because there is "competition".

 

Again, you are showing your lack of knowledge about the state of the market.

PCs with DVD and Blu-Ray Readers are not selling much. The PCs that are selling are light notebooks, convertibles and tablets. These PCs don't come with DVD or Blu-Ray Readers.

 

Don't they have some explanation in their blog about that? They seem to have one for everything.

 

Wild Hunter, no reader=no royalty.

 

If there is one, I didn't find.

 

As odd as it may seem, i *think* i had read their explanation some months ago, but i don't remember it. If i find it, i will post it.

 

Say you're right: so what?

Because optical drives are becoming obsolete and people aren't watching DVDs through their computer.

If people aren't using DVD drives on their computers these days, and the majority of those that do have the codec installed through something else, then why not divert those resources into more relevant things?

 

It's not that simple. As they explained, to play most DVDs requires to pay royalties for multiple parties (MPEG-LA and Dolby).

"So there isn't an approach where you buy Windows or a PC and only “pay as you go” if DVD playback is provided “in the box”. Once it is distributed as a player, a license is required."

Anyways, users don't lose because:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...ck-and-windows-media-center-in-windows-8.aspx

 

Also, Microsoft continues to bundle technologies related to online media consumption to all latest Windows editions.

"In Windows 8, we will continue to include some technologies licensed by MPEG-LA and Dolby that will be paid by OEMs, but only those that relate to online media consumption (e.g. MPEG-2 container for H.264, Dolby Digital Plus audio) and not those related optical media."

This is where the present and future is. Optical media is getting more and more obsolete. It's ridiculous to pay for something most people won't even touch and for what there are several free or very cheap good alternatives that can be used on a per-need basis.

 

An OS have native apps for making easier the life of the users.
What features/apps are included is a decision of the maker and won't go in that. But saying that the strong point of an OS is its ability to install extra apps is a joke plain and simple; because all OSes are platforms to run your desired programs.
It is not its strong or weak or whatever point. It's the only reason that an OS exists!

Panagiotis

 

But Windows has the biggest and best support from third-party software from all categories. The range of options of third-party software for Windows is bigger and better than for every other OS for whatever reason.. This is the significant point and fact from that conclusion.

Developers
Developers
Developers

Windows has their attention..

lol.