The United States Grand Prix: a Big Shame and Black Sunday

are you talking about the IOM TT? if so it's been on my mind since it finished. i'm still really upset about Gus Scott being killed. it's such a sad sport to follow. it got me thinking to the year Jefferies, Hislop, Kato, Dunlop and Sheene all died. you could argue for anyone of them as being the greatest rider, in their class, ever.

as for the car race, i think both the FIA and Michelin are to blame. the FIA for making the rules so strict they couldn't use a different tyre, and Michelin for making such a rubbish tyre.

maybe it's time for car fans to start watching MOTOGP instead.

RIP Gus Scott.
http://www.iomonline.co.im/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=870&ArticleID=1053100

http://www.fasterbydesign.co.uk/gallerybig/croft1b.jpg

 

"oK"? I admit, being a former motorcycle roadracer myself (AFM - I quit after a death that occurred directly front of me), I know speed. The fact that she can race at sustained speeds at over 200 mph and do it without being a nuisance on the track, just increased the "hot" factor. This video helps: http://www.indycar.com/drivers/video/patrick.mov

Patrick to test B.A.R. : http://auto.web-log.nl/log/2788570

 

I certainly do not mind women racing. However Danica would not be in the IRL if she was not a women. Her record is not that good. A man with the equivalant record would not be in the IRL. She was terrible in traffic. And I can certainly tell you that while BAR may use her to bring attention to the team by letting her test drive, she will never be allowed to race an F1 car. You need a very high skill level to drive F1, and she just does not have it.

 

Michelin puts blame on Mosley
From correspondents in Paris
June 20, 2005

FRENCH tyre-maker Michelin has rejected any blame for advising seven Formula One teams to pull out of the US Grand Prix because of fears its tyres might be dangerous.

After Ralf Schumacher's high-speed accident in free practice on Friday left the German driver so shaken he had to withdraw from the race, Michelin admitted it could not guarantee the durability of the tyres supplied for the race.

They pinned hopes on new tyres being flown in from its base at Clermont-Ferrand, but the governing body, the FIA, refused to allow new tyres to be used, or a chicane to be set up to slow the cars.

Michelin's competition deputy director Frederic Henry-Biabaud said today the Michelin-shod teams had no option but to withdraw.

"Michelin would have been to blame if it had raced," he said.

"Do you imagine what would have happened if, having seen the failure on Friday, we had decided to race the tyre and we had a problem?

"I prefer, as a company, we find ourselves in this position rather than if there had been an accident."

He blamed the specifics of the Indianapolis track, and hit out at the FIA for failing to agree to a compromise.

"We proposed realistic, feasible alternatives," he said.


The FIA's stance was seen as a hardening of the battle lines between the body's president, Max Mosley, and the car manufacturers who back the idea of a breakaway championship in the face of Mosley's raft of new regulations to simplify motor racing to be brought in from the start of 2008.
Michelin's failure to supply its teams with safe and durable tyres came less than two weeks after it was warned by the FIA not to sacrifice safety for performance.

Mosley wrote to Michelin in the wake of Kimi Raikkonen's suspension failure in the European Grand Prix – caused by vibrations that built up after the Finn flat-spotted his right front tyre – warning it should take no risks in the specifications of its tyres.

 

FIA slams Michelin
Monday June 20 2005

The FIA released the following statement on Monday, slamming Michelin for retiring its runners from Sunday's Indy GP...

"Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One. It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that “tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances”.

A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

What about the American fans? What about Formula One fans world-wide? Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13. The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.

It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commercial entities, can have no role in the enforcement of the rules."

==========
Original article here

I have to agree with the FIA position, Michelin should not have acted the way it did. Besides slowing down, the teams could have made extra pitstops as well. Pulling out was the least sportive.

 

Ultimately, it was up to the teams to run or not. Michelin has given guidance based on their test results, but they did/could not make the final decission.

IMO Michelin can be blamed for a bad product. The FIA can be blamed for not acting in the best interest of Formula 1. If the equipment failure has an impact on so many teams, other decissions should have been taken. Now the rules have been saved, but the sport has suffered unnecessary.

(On a side note, there was a compromise on the table hours before the race. Two things killed that compromise: FIA and Ferrari (whats new? ))

 

Team principal Paul Stoddard of Team Minardi issued a statement that they only raced when it became evident the Team Jordan was going to go back on their word and race (cop out if you ask me!). Team Jordan in typical coward fashion has put up a "site under construction" page (wimps). I am a big Jacques V fan and am furious about this fiasco. I made sure to be availiable to watch this, as it was Fathers Day and that was the treat I asked for. They wasted my time. I will be boycotting the next F1 event. Good thing Indy is coming to Toronto. They understand putting on a show. I have been around racing my whole life. My uncles, dad and grandfathers. Sometimes you have good equipment other times not. Why did they not bring the slower reliable tire. Why would they not slow down in #13. Suck butts if you ask me. I hope they get a good spanking in public like the children they are. I already wrote to Michelin, as this is the only tires I have ever purchased. I wanted to thank Michelin for pointing out to me that they make inferior products. I am switching to GoodYear now!! My two cents....the ones Michelin will never get again.

 

Mikel, stop bitching about Michelin! Be glad that they are NOT afraid to tell that a particular product seems to be faulty... A lot of companies are not that open about problems...

 

Hehe, either you have a low opinion of women racers or you don't know that she won the fastest lap award at Indy - not bad for a rookie in their first 500 mile race oval. Anyone can have a bad day in traffic as Shumacher: (with only 6 cars in the field Shumacher runs his teammate off onto the field) - That's why I'll never have any respect for him.
You've got 33 drivers in the Indianapolis 500 - she places 4th (her start position) A good record or no good record - that's pretty good. What kind of record do the other finishers have that placed behind her? Perhaps they are not qualified to race in the IRL. Patrick led for 19 laps as a 23-year-old rookie. Woman or not, that is pretty impressive. Here is a woman who has managed to finish fourth in the Indy 500 with only five IndyCar races under her belt. She has proven herself as a serious driver.

Danica is far from:

Coming from my experience long ago, you have to know the track. A practice session is not enough. 3 practice sessions and a couple of races, then I knew Willow Spings Raceway and Riverside Raceway like the "back of my hand"

And finally..................

 

FIA summons Michelin teams
Sportal


The seven teams that refused to take part in Sunday's United States Grand Prix will appear before the FIA later this month to explain their actions.

McLaren, Williams, Renault, Red Bull Racing, BAR-Honda, Toyota and Sauber all withdrew from the race at Indianapolis after their tyre supplier Michelin said it could not guarantee its tyres would last the full race distance.

Michelin and its teams asked for a chicane to be added at turn 13 to slow the cars after Toyota's Ralf Schumacher crashed heavily there in practice on Friday, but the FIA refused the request.

Ferrari's Michael Schumacher won the six-car race from teammate Rubens Barrichello, and since then Michelin and its teams have blamed the FIA for the farce, with the governing body saying the teams and the manufacturer were at fault.



The issue will now have its sequel at the FIA's headquarters in Paris on June 29.

Michelin deputy director of competition Frederic Henry-Biabaud on Monday reiterated the company's view that its teams had no choice but to withdraw because of the safety fears.

"Michelin would have been to blame if it had raced. Do you imagine what would have happened if, having seen the failure on Friday, we had decided to race the tyre and we had a problem," Henry-Biabaud told radio station Europe 1.

"I prefer, as a company, we find ourselves in this position rather than if there had been an accident. We proposed realistic, feasible alternatives."

But the FIA and its boss Max Mosley hit back at the claims, saying the teams should have arrived in the USA with the correct equipment.

"Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules," the FIA said in a statement. "These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race."

"At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess."

"However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down."

"The Michelin teams' lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One."

 

@ lynchnot.....Danica sure did help bring the sport to light...but the fact remains that if a male had her record they would not even be considered for the job.

@ SSK ...I am aloud to rant. I do not know how long you have followed F!,but it is 90% politics and 10% racing. Anwser this SSK. Why did the teams not bring the reliable Michelin tyres to the track Also did you read the letter Michelin wrote to FIA. It clearly stated that they could race, but at reduced speeds in that corner. Thats the luck of racing sometimes.

 

Correct. And he/they would not have been the 31st rookie to win the "Fastest Rookie of the Year award" as well. somebody was wise enough to see potential on and off the track. I certainly would not put someone in a car that could kill them or others unless I was confident in their ability. She knocked some out of contention at Indy - she qualified 4th. She made rookie mistakes but there are a lot worse out there. Mistakes are magnified when in the spotlight.

 

You are allowed to rant. I'm allowed to counter. Thats discussion.

I am aware of the politics in ALL sports. Every major sport has to much at stake for players, investors, sponsors and fans. So "games" will be played.

Why did the teams not bring reliable tyres to the track? There were no reliable tyres that were ALLOWED by FIA regulations. New batches were shipped to the track by Michelin, but FIA regulations made it impossible to change the tyres without penalties.

I have read all statements so far. I still think that FIA has made a very bad call on this issue. The problem was bigger then one or two teams, as happened in the past with bad engines / bodywork design.
When so many teams have the same problem, IMO the regulations need to be flexible enough to make last minute changes, for the sake of the competition.

 

Thankyou for an articulated point. She may, or may not turn out to be a great driver. I am sure that the future will show us.

 

SSK .... do you think that it would have anything to do with this... BTW I love countering. I have been in politics and debating for many, many years. Sometimes I may learn things, others not.

http://www.crash.net/uk/en/news_view.asp?cid=1&nid=108141

 

As for tyres SSK, the teams were told in early June to bring suitable tyres. They only brought one set. How long have these guys been racing? They were allowed to bring a second slower set, that is very, very reliable. Why did they not bring them.

 

I think she's already a great driver to be considered in the same class (by award) as former rookies: Rick Mears, Eddie Cheever, Jr., Jacques Villeneuve, Tony Stewart, Tony Kanaan, Michael Andretti, and Juan Pablo Montoya - all of whom won the "fastest rookie of the year" - but who knows? Racing is unpredictable (unless it's NASCAR - j/k) sometimes people lose the "magic"

 

Posted by fellow member at another board:

 

One interesting point I heard made on the TV whilst seeing things unfold was that the surface had been re-laid and was scrubbing the tyres worse than the the teams had been told and hence the extra wear factor on the tyres, and that a couple of weeks ago there was racing there with all the cars shod with Firestone tyres (although it was only the oval circuit being used) and with Firestone part of the same company as Bridgestone they obviously passed on that information that the Michelin boys didn't have.

 

Three lawsuits filed over U.S. Grand Prix

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=sportsNews&storyID=8853684

FIA summons teams that withdrew from Sunday's race


The FIA for obvious reasons cannot ban the teams - imagine only four underperforming cars competing alongside the two Ferraris - but FIA chief Max Mosley has hinted that teams could be asked to compensate the spectators, who paid $100 a ticket to watch the race. A refund could potentially amount to $16 million; the teams could also end up being fined by their sponsors. Bernie Ecclestone himself could be sued for the millions of dollars it cost the race organisers to set up the race.


http://www.hindu.com/2005/06/22/stories/2005062210242000.htm

 

Oh Horse feathers Whoever told ya that has been standing in the sun too long..

Maybe at Magny-Cours years ago
http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ft00370.html

or at Catalunya
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050508/asp/sports/story_4711694.asp

maybe even some pitch to play cricket ..but there was no new surface.. Fact is. as it all unfolded..the boys did not want to be moved to back of the grid;;even if they were allowed new rubber.



http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=24919


http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/racing,view.spy?artid=42484

This last link will tell you want really unfolded.

Michelin are now investigating the situation and are extremely concerns that the track surface is heating the tyres to a critical temperature and causing them to fail. They have reportedly issued a warning to team to not compete in both qualifying and the race unless the problem can be identified and correct or new tyres can be used. However teams have met with Michelin and specific setup guidelines have been found to minimise the risk for at least qualifying.

If the option to bring in a new batch of tyres was chosen, the Michelin would have to fly in a new batch from Europe with permission from the FIA in Barcelona spec. But if this is the case, without the teams running on the new tyres prior to qualifying, every single Michelin shod team could move to the back of the grid for breaching the one tyre rule for qualifying and the race.

http://www.v8central.com/f1/racenews.asp?newsitem=734

 

Original link here.

Michelin offer US fans their money back
Tuesday June 28 2005

French tyre company Michelin has offered to refund the 120,000 spectators who bought tickets for the US Grand Prix two weeks ago.

The tyre company made the offer on the eve of an FIA disciplinary meeting in Paris which will hear why the seven Michelin-shod teams refused to race over safety concerns.

All seven teams face charges of bringing the sport into disrepute and could face a range of penalties including suspended bans, fines or even loss of Championship points.

A Michelin statement read: "Michelin deeply regrets that the public was deprived of an exciting race and therefore wishes to be the first, among the different groups involved in the race, to make a strong gesture towards the spectators."

The company have also offered to buy 20,000 tickets for the 2006 US Grand Prix to be given to this year's fans.
====================

It's really good to see Michelin steping up to make amends with this fiasco. As their statement suggests, maybe others will follow too? The damage has been done but it's never too late to say "I'm sorry". Great PR at the least.

 

Yup..don't want a US boycott of dem tyres.. We have a lot of sign carrying racing fans.

http://forums.autoweek.com/thread.jspa?forumID=22&threadID=17130&tstart=0

and


Teams ready to boycott races

Formula One teams could boycott the French Grand Prix and future races if they receive severe penalties from the FIA for their part in the US Grand Prix disaster, Minardi boss Paul Stoddart has warned.

 

Nice pic Primrose. I still think that the teams could have just slowed down in #13. I was raised around racing. My Uncle is the President of the largest ashphalt league here in Canada (CASCAR). It's a race, and this has been my whole point, sometimes you have the equipment, sometimes not. The worst that would have happened going slower in that turn is that you might have finished in a worst position. Seeing how Jordan and Minardi are slow already you may have even taken a 3rd. What really boggles me is for Michelin to say it had no idea. If you are in a certain sport....people talk, info gets around. To tell me someone from Michelin was not at the track in the months leading up to the race is pure crap. You also still have to wonder why they did not bring the slower reliable tyre like they do to other races.

I would also like to point out that it was only Toyotas that had actual tyre problems. Maybe it was the design of their cars contributing to it. Maybe this is why Michelin could not find out what was going wrong. Lots of could be's.

 

They actually did fly in a new tyre overnight, but they werent sure it would last the entire race too, but they probably thought they could pressure FIA into allowing the chicanething. Any way here is FIA's response to Michelin "leaked" letter (this turning into a real show ):
http://img198.echo.cx/img198/5830/fia4xc.png

The reason for the failures are of course that they much closer to limit of what the tyres can handle compared to last year when they were beaten at almost every race by Bridgestone, they publicly said during the last part of the 2004 season that they would do everything in their power to catch up with Bridgestone and they are clearly the better tyre so far this year, but are perhaps paying the price for the performance leap, they have also had a number of failures in training/testing.

Anyway it was about time they agreed to paying back the spectators.