TDS software line discontinued

Discussion in 'Trojan Defence Suite' started by Wayne - DiamondCS, Jul 22, 2005.

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  1. tempnexus

    tempnexus Registered Member

    Yeah I hope you mean the great U.S. gov since I know that they are Symantec lovers and boy I mean come on! I work on some sensitive stuff and I really don't feel comfortable haveing Symantec icon on my desktop and believe me the PC I am on does not have BoClean or anything else installed. Also I know that they have some great server filters but I bet they are also symantec! :) So there is no 2ndary defense system and the things I am doing is just scarey to think that they would trust them!
    Well by the end of this week I being relocated to D.C. complex so I would like to see what they have there! But I bet it's Symantec! :)

    So I assume that File Scanning via BoClean is a pipedream for now?
  2. Mr.Blaze

    Mr.Blaze The Newbie Welcome Wagon


    with the understanding there no suport

    lot of us did buy tds 3 to get are hands on tds 4 because it was going to be so cool

    you said it ws nearly finished and i know peole have been testing it why cant we who where promised 4 play with it

    any hoot i do have one finaly request can we get the last data base file for tds
  3. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

    Hi Mr. Blaze,

    First, I would like to say that I entirely understand your comments regarding TDS-3 and your dissatisfaction.

    In regards, to the usefulness of ProcessGuard, and other products like it, I think you may be underestimating their usefulness. The beauty behind these type of products, commonly called Intrusion Protection Systems (IPS), is that they assist in preventing the malware (of all types) from ever installing (instantiating) themselves on the computer to begin with. Therefore there is nothing to clean. Preventing a robber from ever getting into a home is far easier than trying to chase them down afterwards and recovering the stolen goods.

    I am not suggesting that you consider installing ProcessGuard (or any other) if you feel it is not appropriate for your situation. However, it may be worth your while to investigate these capabilities more thoroughly. As you may have observed and read in this thread and others, the trend of the industry as a whole is toward Prevention (via behavioral screen) as opposed to Detection/Deletion. I think it is well worth some study.

  4. Atomas31

    Atomas31 Registered Member

    I have no interest in having a license for my friend and I sure hope you don't expect me to paid full price for your new software wich include TDS-4 technologies?!?

    So, IMO, I think what Tuatara has suggest is a lot more reasonnable and make a lot more sense than what you offer for those already having all your software...

  5. Mikkey

    Mikkey Guest


    You are not listening to your customers. You offered TDS4 for free to existing TDS3 customers. A complete rewrite! So offer a free copy of this new program you are about to release that is actually TDS4 with a new name but no scanner. There's dishonesty here. It sits very bad.
  6. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

    Hi there Blazey! still babysitting the mouse? *puppy*

    Don't worry, leave TDS on your system and try to keep the system clean as ever. In case of suspicious files upload them at jotti's or KAV online scanner and see what they say, you might like to look for a free scan solution for the time being, till all gets clear with the new releases.
    You got lot of security education over the years, as TDS kept us in the drivers seat to find possible malware and we had to decide and google for info about the alarms which we would not have had with automatic cleansing programs.
    I think we learned a lot more about our systems this way gradually.
    Now at we will be stimulated more to look seriously at ProcessGuard and the other programs. I think it sounds really exiting preventive software with no need for daily database updates and scanning etc.
  7. dallen

    dallen Registered Member

    I agree that it is only fair to withhold judgement until we get to see how Wayne decides to handle the situation. However, it is not fair to expect us to wait to see how he is going to handle it...after all we were told to wait patiently for TDS-4 and look where that got us. I have sent an E-mail like we were instructed requesting a refund. Depending on the response I will then decide if I will ever do business with DiamondCS again.
  8. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

    That's a good question indeed, and we could literally devote another thread to it ... (lets not) :). It's not something I want to debate as I have too much on my plate already, but I'll give a few brief opinions...

    I believe there'll be a place for the leading signature-scanning apps (KAV springs to mind to name just one) for quite some time to come, it's quite difficult to predict exactly how long they'll be useful for - we may still be using them in fifty or so years from now but I don't think anyone can say for sure at this stage. However, the fact is that there are more and more viruses/trojans/etc (malware) being released on a daily basis, and the growth rate of these releases is on a steady incline. Sure, our PCs are getting bigger and better so we've now got more memory to accomodate all these signatures, but there are simply too many now for analysts to keep up. Thorough analysis takes time, and with so many malware samples being released (and non-malware samples that still need analysis to determine if they're safe) you need more and more analysts, which means higher subscription fees, and eventually anti-virus scanning could become too expensive for most people to maintain. The anti-trojan market is a niche market much smaller than the anti-virus market, and it is declining due to the anti-trojan improvements made in anti-virus scanners, so I see anti-trojan/anti-spyware style scanners becoming less predominant, with anti-virus scanners taking up the helm again, and as long as their business model has a subscription system to pay for the ongoing research then those businesses should be fine to continue developing nothing but their scanners. However they're still in the same situation as us in that the demands of developing and maintaining scanners of adequate quality (and there are so much that modern scanners need to do, unpacking for example) prevent them from doing anything else. It's already common knowledge that signature scanning should never be used as the only security defence - it should be used alongside other programs, because they're not failsafe, and for example it's well known that executables can be easily modified to evade the detection of scanners. So anti-virus scanners certainly have their use and a place in the current security toolkit, at least in 2005 anyway, but their future is uncertain and they will always need to be backed-up by other security software. Anti-trojan scanners had more of a place when they initially came out in the mid-late 90s, but over the last couple of years in particular anti-virus scanners have picked up their game with trojans, and many AVs are now more competent than ATs when it comes to trojans. Like I said, the software industry (and particularly security software) is extremely dynamic. :)

    Anyway that's just my opinion, I certainly don't want to get into a debate about scanners as that's beyond the scope of this thread but I hope that answers your question.

    Best regards,
  9. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

    Dallen, you purchased and have been using the software since February 2003. Now more than two years later you decide you want a refund?

    mikkey you say we're not listening to our customers, but one of the things that our customers have complained about the most in this thread is offering a free license to a program we haven't released. As we do listen to our customers we will not do that again.

    Best regards,
  10. richrf

    richrf Registered Member


  11. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

    Wayne, what you can easily say is "If there is a new product, then current customers, who do not avail themselves of our current offer, will be offered a discount." The choice would then be with the customers - and I think this is very fair.

  12. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

    How long is a piece of string? :) Think of your body - it is open to a variety of attacks, and there are various layers of defence that you can add - vitamins, exercise, body protection etc. The more you add the more secure you'll be, albeit at the expense of some convenience. Computers are no different. Windows may not be the most secure OS, but it is arguably one of the most convenient which is why it is so popular. The most secure OS is nowhere near as convenient as Windows, so it's up to you and your needs as to which OS you use. It's quite a challenge securing something without inconveniencing the user, and sometimes compromises must be made to find something of a balance.
  13. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

    If only it was as easy as that ... :)
  14. dallen

    dallen Registered Member

    I purchased TDS-3, the update service, and did so under the terms that I would be recieving and upgrade to versions 4 of both TDS and WG. The agreement has been breached on your end. You did not fulfill the terms of the agreement and I want a partial refund as compensation for the breach. I'm not demanding a full refund which I am legally entitled to.
    We aren't complaining about the offer of a free license Wayne...we are complaining about the promise of a free license and the fail to fulfill that promise. You aren't listening to your customers.
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2005
  15. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

    Dallen, there was no contract, it is called a free offer - a bonus which we didn't have to make. Although we were unable to fulfull this one single free offer (unlike every other free offer we've made, at our expense), most people here are able to understand that its simply not possible, that we've made this decision in their best interests as it will benefit them the most, and that you haven't lost anything nor has it cost you anything, all youre complaining about is something you didnt get for free - something which costs me time and money. If we didn't make free offers then people here would've paid three times by now for ProcessGuard, three times for Port Explorer, and so on - is that how you would like ito_O And yes I have read every post in this thread, as well as the thread you recently tried to start to stir things up, which Admins sensibly locked given your history.
  16. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

    Hi Wayne,

    Well it sounds like there are additional factors that I am not aware of. Unfortunately, if your hands are tied, then you will either have to live with the headaches, or do what I did - get out of the software business. I can assure you that the option that I took, has plenty of life rewards. ;) Good luck!

    Warm regards,
  17. Starrob

    Starrob Registered Member

    Which is what I have been saying....there will be Anti-malware scanners, IDS/Generic/proactive protection and specialized security programs.

    Part of the problem with your decision to discontinue TDS-3 is I can tell that many people are stuck in the AV/AT/AS/Firewall world and that world is going away. The people that have that mindset still want a scanner and it is hard for them to change because for so long they have been told by DCS that TDS-3 is number one. They feel that going to another scanner is a step down...If they only knew. I feel that TDS-3 was already surpassed by KAV and also one or two other AT's.

    TDS-4 would have battled in a limited declining market with several other AT's that could have matched TDS-4 performance or did better. I think the gap that TDS-3 had over other AT scanners would not have been repeated in TDS-4. Other AT companies had closed the gap by a lot in the last year and in one case, I feel one surpassed.

    I believe TDS-4 would have took the lead again if it had been released but you would have had at least one company so close on your heels that it would not have been worth the effort.

    The future in security software will be somewhat different. I don't know 100% accuracy the exact future but ALL software developers better take notice.

    I think the main gripe now with DCS is compensation for ending TDS-3 for customers that bought within the last year when the advertising was BUY TDS-3 now in order to get TDS-4....or the advertising had that implied effect. Good luck in solving that situation.


  18. Starrob

    Starrob Registered Member

    From what Kevin has implied Hasta La Vista and IE 7.0 appears to be a security disaster in the waiting. I guess we will see about that in a year or two.


  19. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

    Starrob, yes the dynamic nature of the software/computer industry is a good one for customers as there's always new and better products coming out, but it makes for some rough waters for developers as you never know what'll be just around the corner, but customers don't really have to worry about that, nor should they. But yes predicting future trends with security software is something of a Nostradamus party trick, and probably a futile one at that ... :)

    btw ...
    This again relates to what I was saying before - the more features added into a program like IE (usually added for user convenience), the more complicated the code becomes ... the more code\more complex, the greater the potential for vulnerabilities.

    Or option #3 - make changes, make the big decisions, and progress forward. :)
  20. dallen

    dallen Registered Member

    I am done posting here. I am done doing business with DiamondCS. However, I am not done with this issue. I am going to see how far I can push this Wayne.
    I wasn't trying to "stir things up." I wanted to get a sample of the opinions of your customers. Something you should try. Now I'm going to stir things up.
  21. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

    That's quite mature of you. No response warranted.
  22. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

    A little moderative question:
    Is it possible for some people to cut their quoting to the part they're really reacting on, as it saves us lots of scrolling and makes clear what you're really reacting on.
    Thanks a lot in name of the people with sore mouses from all that scrolling! :cool:
  23. worldcitizen

    worldcitizen Registered Member


    I sent you an email requesting a PG license for my sister and will take you up on that offer thanks, but losing TDS 4 was a blow and I hope you do come up with something as good if not better because I always had TDS 3 installed in case I needed it. Although that wasn't often, if I do get hit what is there I can use now? I hope the new program will help because I want to have protection against the worst Trojans. I do have Kaspersky and so far have had no problems but if I do get hit what will I do without TDS 3 or 4?

    Anyway thanks for the offer and I think that we all need to try to be a bit flexible here. Many might be able to accept an extra license for a friend or relative and if not maybe then a larger discount on a new program.

    I was upset at 1st but then I realised how shaky a free upgrade policy can get and maybe wisdom and hindsight should introduce yearly subscriptions from now on because it is very hard to continue to keep a promise made years ago. That's just placing yourself in a strait jacket without any room to move and the minute you want to move you get cornered by a policy made way back that obviously needs to change.

    Personally, Wayne what I feel I lost most was TDS 3 because now having bought the program it's now useless for what I bought it for - scanning for trojans. Do you recommend I buy another AT to protect me from trojans? What should I do now for trojans? What should we all do to protect ourselves from trojans now that TDS 3 is discontinued?


  24. Triple Helix

    Triple Helix Webroot Product Advisor

    I agree with you Wayne and you and Gavin have my full support!! As I asked Diamond CS to give my Brother inlaw a Licence for Port Explorer and you did without a Question and that is what I call Customer Service!!

    And Good luck in your Furture Endeavours!!


  25. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

    Well this thread has been left to go on for many days now, as you would probably expect from a record-breaking thread ... :). Everything that could have been discussed has been discussed and we thank everyone for your support, thoughts and questions. Anyway as the thread topic has been exhausted it's now time to close the thread so we can all get back to work, as like I said we have some exciting things ahead and we want to get them out to you as soon as possible! If you have a question regarding other anti-trojan software please ask in the aptly-named Other Anti-Trojan Software forum.

    Once again we encourage TDS3 users to take advantage of our free PE or PG license offer (as hundreds of you have already done, judging by the emails!), because how often do you get offered a free program? :) And please dont hesitate to email if you have any queries or if you've already registered both of those programs, but we can only offer this for a limited time so don't delay.

    Best regards,
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