TDS-3: Only Four out of Five Stars?

Discussion in 'Trojan Defence Suite' started by Randy_Bell, May 24, 2002.

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  1. Randy_Bell

    Randy_Bell Registered Member

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    http://www.pcmag.com/article/0,2997,s=1663&a=26671,00.asp

    PC Magazine only gave TDS-3 four out of five stars.  I'm a TrojanHunter user, and TH wasn't even mentioned by PC Mag.  I would have given TDS-3 five stars, due to the quality of the product and its position in the market.  I noticed PC Mag gave Tauscan five out of five stars -- what's up with that?

    I noticed Jooske posted an opinion over at PC Mag, letting her feelings be known.  I tend to agree with her.  I'm wondering what the rest of the TDS community thinks of PC Mag's latest ratings of antitrojans.
     
  2. UNICRON

    UNICRON Technical Expert

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    lol This very thread exists in the private DCS forum.

    Everyone thinks it is a joke, not because of who got what score, but because of the lack of any real criteria for the test.

    To score the highest, the prog had to be easy for the reviewer to learn to operate. Detecting trojans had nothing to do with it really. The reviewer didn't know (and didn't have interest in learning) how to use any of TDS3's advanced options, and decided that a person need to if he wanted to operate the prog. He didn't read any help or FAQ to find out default settings were fine for n00bs.

    So the test was really "which AT was the least scary for n00bs" I say scary because the mere presence of advanced ops was enough to scare him off, not the need to change any of them.

    With this rating style, the power of TDS3 to detect trojans actually hindered it ability to score! How is that for ironic? Here that Wayne, make your product sh!ttier if you want a good rating. Too bad actual users will suffer!

    Ah well, to borrow a term from a member review on the site, "Martian Brain surgery" is better left to Martians!
     
  3. Randy_Bell

    Randy_Bell Registered Member

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    Count me as another suspicious person, concerning these ratings.

    What surprised me was, TrojanHunter wasn't even mentioned, and it's at least as easy to use as Tauscan or any of the others reviewed.

    Yes, I can believe that!!  The sophistication and advanced capabilities of TDS-3 actually hindered it in this "review".  I surely hope CNET or another reputable source will come out with a better, more objective and fair review of the antitrojan products.
     
  4. UNICRON

    UNICRON Technical Expert

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    don't hold your breath, the reviewers from magazines lack the expertise to conduct such a test. These tests are better left to industry experts. A proper test needs a set of test files (real trojans) that the CNET type reviewer will not likely have access to, and needs to disclose things like:

    1) when was the test done
    2) what database build was used for each AT
    3) what actual trojans were tested and their versions
    4) whether these trojans were actually ever in the wild or not
    5) whether these trojans are detected in .zip files or executable unpackers
    6) whether the AT can actually rid you of an infection from the trojan
    7) etc etc etc......

    Conducting a fair unbiased test is no afternoon affair. Trying not to cater to one AT can be hard. TDS3 has many detection techniques that are never measured because no other AT can do them.

    Also, no matter how hard you try, someone will call the test biased. Just ask Eric!
     
  5. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    Did you also read my comments on PP ?
     
  6. Randy_Bell

    Randy_Bell Registered Member

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    Yes, I just read your comments on PestPatrol.  I noticed that you, VeronicaVillineaux, and tassie_devils gave TDS-3 a five out of five rating, which I agree with.  I only wish TrojanHunter had at least been included in the ratings by PC Mag!!

    But to give PestPatrol and Tauscan the five-star ratings they did is really some skewed results, IMHO.
     
  7. Randy_Bell

    Randy_Bell Registered Member

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    I thought Eric Howes' informal trojan tests were very fair and unbiased:

    Informal Trojan Test #1, http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~ehowes/trojans/tr-tests.htm

    Informal Trojan Test #2, http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~ehowes/trojans/tr-tests-2.htm

    There was also the antitrojan comparison done by PC Flank, which is a little old by now: http://www.pcflank.com/art17d.htm
     
  8. Paul Wilders

    Paul Wilders Administrator

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    Hi Randy,

    No doubt Eric performed an unbiased test - but since he's doing it in his spare time, with a very limited amount of straight forward trojan servers, it's merely a small indication about how anti-trojans perform. Nevertheless, I did and do applaud Eric for doing so  ;).

    IMHO the PCFlank test has been eh..amateuristic. Tauscan cannot handle polymorphic trojans - confirmed by the author Mikhail Zakhryapin by email to us. Says it all as far as PCFlank concerns...

    One of our afilliates in at the moment working on a extensive test; TDS and ANTS3 will be included - not sure about TrojanHunter, but I'm fairly sure it will be included. As soon as tests have been completed, we will announce it (links included) on our board.

    regards.

    paul
     
  9. Technodrome

    Technodrome Security Expert

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    This test should be some kind of challenging test for ATs. I am looking forward to that one.

    I would never trust to Magazines tests. They are too biased.

    Technodrome
     
  10. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    If i ever would get wrinkles for aging, those eyebrows raising tests solve that posible problem soon :)
    Of course i did forward finds / positives from the one scanner to the other lab and ask for explanation why their product did not alarm on it and to the other why it did, so they both could refine their databases where / if necessary. In using a product i'm not only looking at scan results but the whole bunch around with user friendly, support, what else can be done with it, could it lead to privacy/ security violation in any way as far as i can see that (afaicst), etc. For which people is it made and suitable (afaicst). It was at least very clear in that magazine test, there are more or less power users who know their product and love to work with it, command and defend it. which makes the tester/reporter... :-(  <wide grin> and thus the other products discutable by serious possible new customers.
    My G-- wished so much Rod's objective site back for this real info and comparison!
     
  11. controler

    controler Guest

    Hi gang


    You know I was just thinking about GUI and TDS the other day.
    I used to read PC-Mag years ago but don't need to anymore. They DO base allot of possative ratings on the User friendly GUI.
    I always try to stress who we are dealing with.
    Is it the home user or a propeller head?
    Take a step back, clear your head of all computer knowledge and then take a look at TDS.
    Doesn't it appear to frighten you?
    @ first glance you will notice all the buttons on the
    main screen. What is this? What is that? What Button do I push first? Where is all the pretty icons?
    Please don't get me wrong, I do like TDS but am only saying , look at it from a single mom at home user's point and not a well educated users view.

    Thanks Jooske for teaching me how to use the GLOW
    I must now use it all the time;)

    [glow=red,2,300]controler[/glow]
     
  12. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

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    On that note ...

    TDS has never been aimed at the average user. It has always been a tool for power users that want to actually analyse their system as opposed to completely trusting software to provide them a yes/no answer as to whether or not they're infected. The human brain is the most powerful anti-trojan system in existance and TDS utilises that.

    However, we also realise that there is a big demand for anti-trojan software for your 'average computer user', who essentially wants to set-and-forget their defences (anti-virus, firewall, anti-trojan, etc).

    Our upcoming TDS4 series caters for this. TDS4 Professional will still be feature-rich for all you hardcore power users, but we're also releasing a relatively 'simple' on-demand scanner and resident active background scanner, both of which are extremely easy to use, yet they still retain the power that our software has always been best known for.

    You'll soon see what I mean .... :)
     
  13. Tassie_Devils

    Tassie_Devils Global Moderator

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    Hi guys:

    I too gave my 'opinion' on the 'propellor head' that gave that review.
    Pretty GUI/easy to use> is that it?

    Well, I am by no means an expert in TDS, but as long as I have it running, update regularly, have the Execution Protection Enabled and do an occasional full system scan, I am a happy little vegemite.

    I do not have, nor really desire to learn the many many advanced features. Just like my car. I could not care less how it works, as long as it starts when I turn the key [have it running], get regular servcies [updates], drive carefully [do not 'accept' anything at face value], then that's it.
    Cheers. Tas
     
  14. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    Welcome to the board, Tassie_Devils!

    A lot of other people feel the same way, too - it's good to see DCS being responsive to their wishes, as well. Pete
     
  15. Bouch

    Bouch Registered Member

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    Yes, welcome Tas, and it's about time that you showed-up here or in the Private Forum. Where have you been? After trying TDS-3 for less than a day before registering it, I came here fully expecting to find you. You were so vocal in heaping such lavish praise on TDS-3 at the PC Flank forum, I just naturally thought that you would be a regular contributor here. Imagine my surprise ..... No Tassie_Devils! Glad that you finally made it buddy :D!

    Big Bob
     
  16. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    Hi Tas! Welcome aboard, hope to see you in the private too1 I did like the users reviews, among which yours. Would have been nice if the author had reacted at least something. It showed at least we users love our product, and as it is said to be for advanced users, hmm it says a lot about the writer ... who might either get some education or is formatting his HD. Great, that's the right spirit.
    Show the world we are happy and sharing and you certainly opened your mouth there! If reviewers there could collect ratings you should have got at least a 5.
    Good to see you here!

    BTW: long ago i also registered TDS a few hours after installing and testing.
     
  17. UNICRON

    UNICRON Technical Expert

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    DITTO!
     
  18. Tassie_Devils

    Tassie_Devils Global Moderator

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    Holy Smokes Batman:

    Thanks for the welcome guys, Big Bob, jooske, Spy1, am pleasantly surprised.

    Ahhh Big Bob, what can I say mate. I was so pi**ed off with that review, etc. that I never really bothered to go back and then I was so busy with the other forums, etc. It was only when I got email from Wilders re new forum format, that I popped back in.

    However, I now have my browser set to open up 4 forums on start-up, including Wilders, so I won't be lax again. lol.

    Well I will have to have a bit of a browse around in here and see what's what.

    Great to be here, thanks.
    Tas
     
  19. Tassie_Devils

    Tassie_Devils Global Moderator

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    ummmm question?

    I just had a browse and saw a thread about some sort of survey.

    From what I read [did not read it all probably about 30 posts] I gathered it was about illegal use of software in general? or TDS?

    Has this survey been run or still going?

    Would certainly like to participate if it still is.
    Cheers.
     
  20. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    Ahh Tassie, i see you're from our antipodes country, so yes, you recognise a good homeland product TDS is.

    As you've seen the survey got rather flaming, as the original reason for the discussion --it was about TDS but brought in wider general view to contribute on lack of peoper laws internationally for protection of intelligent ownership-- from people cracking and stealing software were blaming the developer for protecting his rights.
    It was closed because as standpoints for the moment were clear and there was no real new contribution which could be send to lawmakers. The survey should be on whole internet and certainly not limited to TDS /DCS although DCS was brave enough to stick their neck out to open this discussion. Maybe in future Wilders might host or contribute to such a worldwide internet discussion if some more could be expected then a repetition of what there is now.
    I'm sure you'll have good contributions! Hope to read about such a survey as soon as there is one in the make again!
     
  21. Tassie_Devils

    Tassie_Devils Global Moderator

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    Thanks jooske.

    It was not until I had posted that I noticed the 'lock' on the threads and when it went back to the main forum, saw it was closed. As you can see by my posts, I am an newbie in here and still finding my way around a bit.

    Yeah, I can imagine .... lol.... how heated that could have been.

    But obviously, people only want to believe in what is 'right' for THEM, so anyone condoning cracks would simply just say 'what's wrong with it'. WITHOUT wanting to start the debate all over again, it's like taking a few apples from a grocery store then only buying some bananas.
    One is stealing. The other is legal purchase.

    Bye.
     
  22. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    MMMMM new from registering for this forum, but not all newbie in TDS and computer use so to see :)
     
  23. Smokey

    Smokey Registered Member

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    You are right, take 10 different Magazines with a test about product x, and there are 10 different results.

    Ciao,

    Smokey
     
  24. Randy_Bell

    Randy_Bell Registered Member

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    Agreed. We've had some lively discussions at dslreports security forum concerning CNET's rating of NAV 2002, for example: many think that CNET's methodology is seriously flawed, and that therefore their conclusions are questionable.

    I really seriously questioned the PC Mag results, from the moment I heard about the survey. No way should PestPatrol and Tauscan be rated above TDS-3, that's just laughable. And my TrojanHunter wasn't even included, even though it's obviously a major player in the AT market.
     
  25. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    If they spread the thing as hardcopy, they should include the users reviews as well.
    After version 4 all will be very different :)
     
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