Take It Back/ RANT!!

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by snowy, Jan 14, 2003.

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  1. snowy

    snowy Guest

    Over the years of my working experience I have enjoyed the ability to be well skilled in my chosen fields of employment.
    an have always taken upon myself an attitude of "do the job right or not at all"
    Well, where is the person who has not suffered through digging through the registry to remove those forever left behind pieces of un-installed software....depending on the program a person may need to take along lunch....and supper.......a sleeping bag.....
    so whats the real deal here? If a person makes a program why is it that person can not make a proper un-install for the program ? I ask this with sincere interest.....not to mock.....after all if a person has the knowledge to make the program.....should the person not also have the knowledge on how to properly remove it ?
    one of the very first things I do after installing a program is to un-install it just to see how "clean" the un-install really is.....why...because if the programmer lacked the klnowledge to properly build the un-install chances are that person didn't have the knowledge to build the program.
    Sure, I appreciate a person who sincere trys....an sure I appreciate that it takes a period of time to learn....an yet..if here I can sit a person with little computer knowledge an remove the "left-overs" then it seems that a person educated in computers..programing etc....should be able to do an even better job than my meak attempt to "clean"
    Of course a "total" un-install is possible....if not than why is it that in a few cases some very complicated software can be un-installed an not leave anything...not even an empty folder in "programs"
    I have not once ever seen any type of prior notice saying: "un-installing this program will leave entries in your registry"

    open for discussion.....if there is an honest reason for the failure to provide a "total un-install" then let vendors step forward an clear the air. I can understand that if a program is "sharing" a dll, etc that it can't be removed....but what about all that meanless garbage that is left behind that has no purpose.....what about thato_O
    Any reasonable attempt to provide an answer who be much appreciated. Thasnk you
     
  2. snowy

    snowy Guest

    SPECIAL REQUEST:


    please do that apply this question to FREEWARE programs. Such programs are shared with the public free of charge as a service usually by persons sincerely making a sincere effort to provide help.....imo such programs should not be held to that which a shareware program is held to
     
  3. root

    root Registered Member

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    Hi Snowy. I agree. I would certainly like to see better efforts made at uninstalling. However, I can see some instances that prohibit totally uninstalling all remnants of certain programs.
    As an example, some files get created after a program is used. The uninstaller could only have a vague notions of what might happen after that.
    Another example is that some system files might get modified, and rolling them back to the previous state could cause problems for programs installed after the program in question. Registry entries may remain pointing to this file from the install, and not get removed because the file is still there.
    I'm not a programmer, so I only can guess at the ins and outs involved with a 100% clean uninstall, but I can see that it could be very difficult for some programs.
    Other programs can and should be totally uninstalled, but seldom are.
    Have you ever tried Total Uninstall?
    http://www.webattack.com/get/totaluninstall.shtml
    It does a very good job, but not perfect.
     
  4. snowy

    snowy Guest

    ROOT

    heyya buddy....no, I never tryed totaluninstall...will take a peek at it.

    an yes I do agree with you......what I fail to understand is why is it we can dig in the registry and removed leftovers without major problems but the un-installers just miss those same files/keys.......todays alone I removed about 10 that was left behind by the un-installers........these sure slow the os down if left to clog
     
  5. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Hey Snowy......

    Nice to see your postings ! This is an issue indeed. But isn´t it more like M$ issue ? If I was asked it sure is. All of stuff on win cd rom for nuttin....No working clean up feature on it. I might have "Uninstall" stored on some corner of hard drive too, never tried to use though. Now it might be the time I guess. By the ways...registry cleaners do not clean all of old useless keys , and why not I just wonder?

    ^Ari^
     
  6. root

    root Registered Member

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    M$? Indeed! Do a clean install of any M$ OS, and before you install anything else, install a registy cleaner, run it. You will find hundreds of useless registry entries in some clean installs.
    Unbelievable!
     
  7. great thread...be well... ;)
     
  8. snowy

    snowy Guest

    Krusty

    GREAT POINT!!! the M$ certainly has its issues. An you are correct in saying that even registry cleaners may not remove all the left-behind garbage.....I was using three registry cleaners but still had to go manually clean.....

    Right now in my ssmenu folder is is a left-behind from an install of Easy Crpyto Deluxe....that was removed....SHOULD THIS BE CONSIDERED ON THE SAME LEVEL AS A TROJAN.....its an updater service deliberately implanted in the ssmenu by the products vendor.........it can not be romoved by the usual means because the ssmenu folder is always in use by the os......even spybot would not remove or disable it......WELL BET ITS DISABLED>>>
    this is the sort of thing that I find so disgusting. eventually I will reformat JUST TO GET THIS GARBAGE OUT MY OS. Handy Bits..aka Teknum Systems vendors of Easy Crypto Delux surely knew where they were deliberately placing that update service....in such a place if they could no remove..........
    perhaps whats needed in a few cases..is not registry cleaners but a staff of attorneys. Bring a few of the vendors into court with expert witnesses present an let this vendors offer an explanation.....like what was done last year with M$
     
  9. snowy

    snowy Guest

    Perhaps I should further explain this issue with the the Easy Crypto Update Service......first off imo it had no business being installed without prior permission.....secondly it could have very easly been placed in a place where it could have been removed.....which it was not.
    to remove this service..I went as far as opening the ssmenu....thats a very bad idea but I did anyway...AN WIPED THE UPDATER SERVICE.....did the same in the registry....hit it with three registry cleaners..spybot...and wipers.......THIS UPDATER SERVICE AUTOMATICALLY PLACES ITSELF IN START-UP...ENABLED....IT CAN NOT BE DISABLED BY SIMPLY UNCHECKING........I did not give it the opportunity to call home.....
    this is just one incident that has led to this topic being posted. an its only going to take just one person with the financial means for a very long legal action that will provide expensive to the vendors to get a few of these people cooking hamburgers instead of playing programmer
     
  10. snowy

    snowy Guest

    OOPS....just un-intentionally broke the SPECIAL REQUEST

    Easy Crypto Delux is a freeware product....as such it will not be used in this topic......an as previously stated freeware products imo should not be held to the same strickness as payed for shareware........
    in keeping with that...if the mods care to edit/delete my posts on easy crypto feel free to do so...its no biggie...just keeping to the Special Request terms
     
  11. snowy

    snowy Guest

    On further thought this is not a good subject for me to discuss.......an maybe I just better read.
     
  12. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Snowy

    Very interesting. Can not be removed eh ?

    Have anyone else tried McAfee´s "Stronghold" ever? I have :( . It is one damned when you uninstall it but you do not disable that "stronghold" before doing uninstall. It will hang out there for ever ´till you reformat hd. Defragmenting appeared IMPOSSIBLE. Ok I had to do that way I reinstalled McAffee´s utilies, that is free of charge, and went back on settings. There disabling "SH", and reuninstalling whole app. Reboot again, one more time, checking out SH not enabled anymore. Now I run "EasyCleaner" and all other possible cleaners. If I remember correct I found McAfee´s registry keys, some of them months later.

    Some of programs go adding itself in Autoexec.bat. Freeware "UltraWipe" did that, and WITHOUT asking first if I wanted it there. That was kinda insulting.....but easy to remove though. I just accidently launched "TFAK" [ awesome app by the way] and I took a look at `what was autolaunched´.

    Summa summarum....there are places to hide autolaunchers.....just wondering if one app is possible to autolauch by all places at the same time ? Autostart folder, registry, autoexec.bat....etc , that would be a work for an average user to remove all...

    Snowy, did you try to remove in safemode ? Did you try to find files with " winfile" ? I am not sure in which Os winfile utility is found but atleast in 98.

    Why are those WINDOWS utilies so SECRET ? That has been my question for long time, as long as I have learnt something of this.

    be well

    ^Ari^
     
  13. snowy

    snowy Guest

    ARI

    yes sir..the deal you went through with Mcafee is just the sort of nonsense that I am talking about
    An yes sir, it is insulting when these programs install un-wanted..un-asked for garbage that is nearly impossible to remove.........in such cases a newbe does not stand a chance.
    When a person un-installs a program thats their choice......an the person is robbed of that freedom of choice when garbage is not removed by the un-installer.
     
  14. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    And more of this crack......

    I just uninstalled Ulead´s "iphoto plus" picture editor, it is alright app concidering it is free of charge because it came with scanner.....but whatsoever....uninstaller promises almost a new house, young&beautiful wife, three kids and a Cadillac. Look at this how did it go [ image attached ]

    be happy :D
     

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  15. snowy

    snowy Guest

    ARI

    sorry my friend but those images wont show on my puter.......but would have enjoyed seeing it.....
    sounds like you ran into another one of those poorly coded programs like the type being discussed here. An most likely there are tens of thousands of other programs out there that are just as bad.
     
  16. snowy

    snowy Guest

    ARI

    alittle ot: just thought to advise you that in a matter of a few days I will be "boxing" the ye ole computer again.
    so want to take a moment to again wish you the very best in your education....in case I forget to later..be well.
     
  17. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Hey Snowy friend

    I don´t know how come, that´s jpg format....

    True. This is just one....I laughed out loud at it

    Aren´t you gonna be offline o_O

    Thank You my friend. :) The same wishes in your life too.

    ^Ari^
     

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  18. snowy

    snowy Guest

    ARI

    yes, I will be offline......last year when I disconnected it was not my intentions to re-connect at anytime in the near future........but while finishing up a few business matters it became necessary to briefly establish a connection.
    ******
    Krusty have you noticed how few people posted to this thread?
    People install firewalls...anti-virus...anti-trojan scanners.......all with a sincere effort to protect their computers..........others may install such programs out of being curious.....out of boredom...or as an experience to learn from.....there are many reasons I am sure.......an all during the installations of these programs bits of garbage is left behind when the programs are un-installed ...an their systems take on an entire new look......suddenly blue screens appear....resources drop....motherboards become grandfather boards........an on and on.........this may be alittle bit dramatic as its said but the point is......why is it so few people have little or no interest in what may be the most important issue of all...keeping their systems clean in order to continue having it perform properly??
    was a .dll removed during the un-install of a program...will that .dll be need for a firewall to perform.....was some garbage left behind that will interfere with the virus scanner......again this is being alittle dramatic but the point is clearly that a system to properely perform needs to be kept clean and conflict free. if that were not so then such programs like registry cleaners....and all those tons of other softwares to tune-up systems..would not exist.
    there is lots of interest in removing a bad cookie....but what about that corrupt "whatever" that the os needs to work correctly....who askes if all that garbage left behind by un-installs will conflict with other programs
    oh well............
     
  19. snowy

    snowy Guest

    WAIT...was that someone out there snickering because they think bad un-installs don't corrupt...........well snicker.....an take a walk around the forum to see how many posters complain how their new firewall wont work because a previous firewall un-install left garbage.......an the list goes on and on
     
  20. luv2bsecure

    luv2bsecure Infrequent Poster

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    root,

    I'm curious to know just how well "Total Uninstall" is doing for you. I have tried it twice and both times ran into registry problems. I can't even remember now what exactly it was, but remember thinking, "That's too bad, I was hoping that was going to work." If it's working well for you, I'll have to take a look again. Maybe it's an OS issue. What are you running it on?

    John
    Luv2BSecure
     
  21. Tassie_Devils

    Tassie_Devils Global Moderator

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    lol Snowy.....

    Yep. they install/uninstall/spyware check things, but do not do a full *maintenance* on their system to keep it clean. REG and TIF-wise.

    A friend of mine asked me once:

    "What's so important if a very small file [.dll 2-4Kb, whatever] is left behind, MY system has a gazillion twin overhead cam, quadruple new you beaut triple exhausted Harddrive which has bazillions of Mb's of space, so those files don't take up much room"

    My reply simply:

    "Pretend your system is like a filing cabinet [Harddrive]
    In the cabinet are drawers [Folders]
    In those drawers are pieces of paper [Files]
    Now out of each of those drawers are 'blank' pieces of paper [Invalid/Useless Files] and some pieces with information you need [Valid Files]

    Now you have to look in a drawer [Folder] and look for "xxx" [File] amongst ALL [every File] for one important piece of info.
    How long would it take to look at every piece of info [Files ~ Valid AND Useless], as opposed to looking only at Valid files.

    The dim light slowly brightens, the eyes loose the "startled deer in the headlights" look, the mouth twitches into an "Aaaahhh, I see what you mean" grimace, and intelligence once again takes reign.

    Then comes the question which is music to my ears: "What do I do?"

    The other day at work, [where NO cleaning whatsoever is done by IT, regarding Registry, AND TIF] on the main PC which delivers all of our email, virtually each one containing an attachment needed by us (newspaper) in form of PDF's, jpegs, Word .docs, etc. I had a look at the Cache.

    Inside the Temporary Internet Files were 25 [twenty-five] folders of Cookies and Images which had been downloaded since it was installed.

    Inside EACH folder, including the main folder itself, there was OVER 15,000 items. Geeeze talk about redundant stuff in there. Having a bo-peep thru each folder, I saw lots of Referrer Cookies, etc. etc. Sextrackers, man sure was some junk.

    I was going to at least empty those, but told right smart by IT to "Leave those alone, they are not harming anything, and it makes it quicker to browse the Net"

    LOL. So I simply said, "Yes SIR" [Superior Idiots Reign]

    That's my rant over with.

    TAS
     
  22. snowy

    snowy Guest

    TAS

    an a beautiful rant it was.........thank you.


    oh yes...those IT pro's.......in the Military there are the "90 days wonders" and in the IT world there are those that make me wonder..period!

    ******************

    so..what does it take for people to open their eyes and see the very real dangers involded here.........its not like I have lots of time to spare ranting about nonsense...heck I have to be the slowest typer ever to be.......an yet plain common sense should tell even the newest newbe that a program is only as good as the system its installed on.....corrupt the system an what do you have....a big garbage can I hope....for the computer to fit in.
     
  23. snowy

    snowy Guest

    LOV2B

    John.....there was a smal program I heard of a while back that acted like an "explorer" for the registry...just type in the name of the un-installed program and all entries in the registry related to that program was revealed for deletion...I'll try to re-call the name of the program..it was freeware for all os's
     
  24. snowy

    snowy Guest

    Hello out there in cyberland..all those highly inteligent prgrammers who made claims of how good and great their programs are.......please, come on in and sit for a spell an tell us how it is that those ever so great programs don't fully un-install themselfs.......after all, you folks are super smart.....an I just know there must be an answer you can provide.
    Name your program...tell us what it leaves behind and why it can't be removed....then lets see if one of us here can remove the garbage that it left behind..........hey, we are all "still in training"......an are willing to learn..
    so come all ye great programmers......you know the ones........oh yes you know the ones alright
     
  25. snowy

    snowy Guest

    END OF RANT


    ok, this rant has come to an end .
     
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