Software Virtualization (Thinstall/Altiris SVS)

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

I would like to add a point of clarification. I must have misinterpreted Thinstall’s pricing and I am beginning to see why Thinstall has all but dropped out of this discussion. There is no way to use Thinstall without spending at least $4,995. The mention of the $39 per desktop is merely for the application and is useless without the $4,995 client. Their website is confusing and I suggested they modify it to avoid being misleading. They seemed to think I’m an idiot for having misunderstood it. So if you misunderstood it as well, Thinstall thinks you are an idiot.

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

That's the main thing I use Altiris for, all those apps that I hate installing because I'll use them approximately once per format. This way I can export them and not have to worry about actually installing them ever again. Some tools have caused driver conflicts as well, so this minimizes the chance of that happening since the driver will be gone after deactivating the layer.

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

wilbertnl :

correct wilbertnl, I mentioned it was great for security, maybe bad choice of words, but I was thinking of recovering from certain situations.

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

Today I started beta testing Arovax Smarthide 1.0.226 on 2 boxes.

Read about altiris here. So installed a took a chance on the second machine to see if Smarthide would run in that environment. All seems same as machine 1 without altiris.

Today has been fun

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

This is exactly a comprehensive comparison between snapshot/disk imaging solutions and software virtualization.
Thank you, Suave.

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

Peter,
I remember that you were evaluating ms Office 2007 beta.
It's probably easy to accomplish these test sets in SVS, and as opposed to rebooting into different snapshots, you would simply switch between ms Office current and ms Office beta. As easy as switching a cable channel.
If you had time, you could experiment with this same project

Let's try to get a 4-layered day of 24 hours.

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

Thanks cthorpe

@dallen: Thinstall are the idiots. Not us. And IMO, the real idiots are the ones who pay 5 thousand bucks for their software without even getting to try it out. It's a shame though because from what I've been reading, Thinstall seems great. But there is no way I am willing to part with that kind of money.

According to the Thinstall website, their customers include GE (General Electric), the US Department of Defense, Qualcomm, Lucent, Northrop Grumman, Morgan Stanley, T-Systems, and Abbott Labs. So maybe they are not marketing this software towards the average home user. Too bad

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

Can Altiris be use in conjuction with an instant recovery software like Rollback Rx?

Thanks,
Atomas31

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

Actually, Altiris isn't either... And they don't expect a growing home user base.

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

Know the feeling - Just received the first newsletter from Altiris with more goodies to play with.

http://juice.altiris.com/node/156

John.

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

There is a later build of Altiris SVS out 2.0.2027 but I can't find anywhere to download.

Also out is "Altiris SVS for personal use" beta 2.1 download here:

http://juice.altiris.com/download/870/svs-2-1-beta-1-for-personal-use

On the forum there is mention that 2.1 will be available early next year, hopefully they will release a full 2.1 version for personal use as well.

I like this software so much I would gladly pay for a personal version that could be updated.

John

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

Thank you for the update, concerning beta 2.1.
I signed up for the beta program, I guess that helped with making this release available for home users.

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

Hey Peter2150,

It will only capture background operations if you set it for a "Global Capture". Instead, you should do an "installation capture" or "program capture" (I forgot what it is called exactly) which will only record the changes made by the actual setup file and the files launched by the setup file.

I think the best way is to do it on a clean bare system (that's what I do).

Right now I am in the process of making VSA's of the software I plan on using in fresh install of XP on my other computer. Once I have them all ready I will import them to my main PC.

I even wrote some autoit scripts for some of the software that will allow me to click a shortcut on my desktop and the layer will automatically activate itself and launch the program for me. Then when I close the program, the layer deactivates itself and resets itself. There is a another way to do it by using a VB script. See here: http://juice.altiris.com/download/712/activate-and-launch-in-a-single-step

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

1) You can create a layer using the installation method, and if the installation program starts the program, then you can do updates, etc that will all be captured in the layer. If the installation program and any child processes it starts close, then the capture will end. You can do an update of an exisiting layer at a later time if you want.

2) I think that should be fine, as the small installer spawns the download processes and then completes the installation.

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

Hey Peter2150,

Sorry, I don't think I understand what you are asking in the first question.

But regarding question #2, I don't believe it will be a problem. When you do the program capture on that small downloader app it will redirect all changes made by that downloader into the layer and it will also redirect the changes made by any files the downloader launches. So after that downloader app finishes downloading the full installer, it will most likely launch the installer. And therefore, the changes that installer makes will also be redirected to the layer.

You will know everything is OK if you see the thunderbolt icon blinking in the systemtray during a capture. As long as it is still blinking, it is still capturing. It should automatically stop the capture once the whole setup process is complete. And incase something goes wrong, you can always do a global capture.

Edit: sorry cthorpe, I didn't see that you already answered him when I made this post

Edit2: btw, just to add to what cthorpe mentioned in #1. You can trick ASVS into thinking the capture isn't complete while you manually launch the newly created program in order to update it/change settings (incase the installer doesn't do it for you or if you want to install more than one program in a single layer). You can do this by setting the "program install" to C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe and manually launching the installer and whatever else you need via the command line. The capture wont stop until you close cmd.exe (allowing you to launch the application as many times as you need until you decide to finalize the capture). I read about this somewhere yesterday. If I find the link I'll post it (I think it will explain it better)

Edit3: Found the links:

Different methods of doing what I've described above: http://juice.altiris.com/node/22
GUI available for those who don't like the command line: http://juice.altiris.com/download/165/program-launcher

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

I don't know much about Rollback Rx but I don't see why they can't work together.

Read this: http://juice.altiris.com/node/480

They say that imaging software can work with ASVS without any problems.

I don't know if that applies to Rollback Rx (as it is not like the average imaging software) but if you're feeling adventurous you might as well give it a try

By the way, I was wondering if defragmenting the hard drive would have any affect on ASVS and I found the answer at the juice. Here is the link if anyone else was wondering: http://juice.altiris.com/question/765/defragmentation-and-svs

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

It runs perfectly with FDISR and I can not see any reason why it shouldnt run fine with Rollback Rx or its clones.
I believe the only software that can be a bit tricky with FDISR or Rollback is the ones that modify the MBR and some imaging software. When I had Rollback installed it played well with all the software I threw at it, so does FDISR.

 

This software invites to read the docs, the options and procedures are not exactly 'click and play'

I think it's okay to install it in a complete system and get the feeling with some layers.
But when you think of a few office layers simultanuously, you practically need to start with a OEM Windows.

When you want to archive the layers, they suggest to prepare that in a lean system. So what I did was restoring a OEM Windows and build the layers for archiving there. To update ms Office, I select update layer and launch Internet Explorer: office.microsoft.com and download/install the updates.

I'm not sure how I update a layer with customized settings, though.

Very valuable tip. Thank you for sharing this, Suave!
That answers my question.

 

Re: Thinstall - Anyone try it?

Check this web site it's cool with vsa apps.http://www.svsdownloads.com/