SiteAdvisor -- strange

The different scanners never did like the fact that I use run-time packers and scramblers, but that doesn’t automatically give rights to flag my files. Malware is commonly seen being masked by run-time packers, so they figure they target all run-time packed files, and worse slap big threatening labels on these files.

 

Yea, I know, I was just validating your comment. I thought it was more a question, sorry about that. I was on my phone, so could hardly read well.

Anyway, even though round #2 of my personal problems are fixed, I am not just dropping this and letting the next innocent business go down. I will remain an outspoken opponent to SiteAdvisor *until* they have demonstrated to me that they have corrected what I perceive to be *serious* flaws in their system. If their turn-around time is too slow, hire more employees.. and take a little less corporate bonus/profit. If their accuracy is bad, try a different way. Things need fixing, and eventually the FTC will force SiteAdvisor to change if they don't make their own changes (in my opinion).

 

That’s admirable quality you have, good stuff.

 

Admirable or stupid one . Everyone else, once they solve their problem, they 'just let it go' and hope to stay under SiteAdvisor's radar. Since I am 100%, unquestionably legit (probably why I'm so broke, lol), and have been victimized twice now, I feel I sadly am the one who needs to speak up. That last RED rating on ProcessLasso.com is still unexplained to this day. I provided a potential explanation, as they had none (a temporary DNS change I did to a backup web server). Apparently that bot (who is a human that makes 2 million reviews) rates sites by IP addresses, apparently not accounting at all for co-hosted servers (though I don't know that.. I do know there was no good reason to ever rate that domain RED). Of course, that bot never made any rating of processlasso.com, which is why it is still a mystery. Instead, he had made a specious accusation about bitsum.com, later recanted in less than confidence inspiring words. And I do still find the timing awful coincidental... Too coincidental for me. Maybe that's all it was though. At least it is fixed now. I have also 'opened up' my blog to search engines, so we'll see if there ie enough community support for an FTC complaint. The more signatures the better, though only one is needed.

 

Above edited (as always), noting that bot never posted on processlasso.com (no RED there anywhere, except site rating). The bot posted on bitsum.com, but I was speculating the same cause of that bot's mistake was processlasso.com's mistake.. just guessing, as that's all I can do, for no explanation was provided. Props to those at the SA forums though, which is where anyone who has a problem needs to go to get actual action taken. It turns out the volunteers are left to do all the work, while McAfee takes all the profit (seriously).

 

I laughed when reading your Pharmalert quote that you had posted over at McAfee SiteAdvisor forum, where they mention about the “infection that caused...”.

 

Yea!! I mean, what a recantation... Thanks a bunch for that, I thought to myself. And funny that this bot who has NO AFFILIATION with SiteAdvisor:

1. Has the power to fix this rating instantly, despite admitting reviews don't count for anything (as they don't, so he has connections or did it himself)
2. Was highly concerned about me correcting my comments about the false rating within minutes of it being fixed. I should have taken 10 days, lol.
3. Is running a really high risk of having someone file a defamation lawsuit against him, and SiteAdvisor would just say 'we don't censor or endorse our reviewers comments'.. leaving him out to dry (if he really isn't affiliated, as he claims)
4. I don't mind saying 'as he claims' because of what he has said.. In his recantation he says "The owners of this web site now claim that the infection that caused it to be listed in a malware database has been addressed. The review at 11/24/2010 no longer applies, and this site is safe." ... Great recantation (sarcasm) since there never was any infection. He refuses to admit his bot is ever wrong, which is scary in and of itself. Every engineer knows any rating algorithm will be prone to errors, and denial of such is.. just scary.

 

edited above (notice for email readers) -- funny to read the actual recantation, if you call it that. At least it is green, though he certainly admits no mistakes.

 

One other thing... I find it extremely strange to have no user reviews (after they wiped out my old ones in what they say now was part of a database cleanup to speed the site, pfft), given my large and loyal user base. Maybe it is just that nobody has had a chance to go comment... surely they aren't blocking or rejecting good comments.

 

You guys will find this amusing: https://community.mcafee.com/message/171530#171530

He will probably anonymously (coward) attack me, as he has before, and has done to 1.9 million other sites... but we'll see. I feel he has an OBLIGATION to show his real name and not hide behind some alias, to prove he is not working with SiteAdvisor, as he claims. When you make 1.9 million accusations, some of them I KNOW to be specious (statistics would tell you that, but I know from personal experience).. Well, he should lay himself 'out there' too, as he demands of us.

I am not so sure he isn't working with McAfee Secure, that bad rating from him came 36 hours after saying NO.. 36 hours... maybe coincidence, but how can we know if he hides behind an alias?

 

Would you believe they have done this to me a THIRD time?!?!?

ALL DOWNLOADS GREEN (AND IT SAYS ALL SAFE)
ALL LINKS GREEN
NO COMMENTS

Domain rated RED: http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/prolasso.com

I had taken down my blogging critcisms of them when they fixed this the last time it happened (right after I turned down highly aggressive sales pitch if you remember).

Are they intentionally running my business into the ground?

They now bundle McAfee with SUN Java, so if you think the 350 million install base was bad, geez...

Look McAfee, I had shut my mouth, not criticized you.. but this is ABSURD. You have rogue employees or something. I guess since they thought they got away with it last time they could just do it again.

UPDATE: This is in their forums (which I thought were closed at first) -- https://community.mcafee.com/message/171749#171749

 

Seems like a messed up company. Your rouge accusation make much sense, this can't be accidents. There are idiots all over the place so why should security companies be without. There must be some hope since they allow you to go "crazy" on their forum. You even get help by a veteran moderator - who does not really stand up for Mcafee Seems odd to me, such people are usually more addicted to their pets than owners them self. If all Mcafee invested interests on such a forum were all go go Mcafee you would have been shut down long time ago. Just the way you post will be enough. They are either strangely open to complaints or your case is simply too compelling. They are not sure it is wise to shut you up perhaps. Will just add to your evidence should you contact muscles to deal with them. Question of course is if "they" listen and may be also stop repeating errors! Seriously messed up situation regardless of someone is targeting you or everything is result of error upon error. May be they, or some of them, really are trying to fix it but also mess that up because system is not willing to be fixed since set up to be flawless and so cannot be tinkered with, lol. You are trapped in an evil loop. Very nice being able to ignore Mcafee crap but of course you can't.

Btw, you have taken screenshot of your posts at Mcafee right? You and they might suddenly disappear from there. You know, by mistake as in an error

 

Yes, I took screenshots of everything, showing the full GREEN scan, then RED rating. Of their management acknowledging the problem, etc...

So, the next day we have:

+ Management refuses to correct, or even explain the problem, despite two past prior mistakes. They don't even give me the benefit of the doubt, ON THIS SAME SITE AS ALL THREE TIMES (different domains though)!
+ Sales plummet as my small business I worked a decade to build is driven into the ground
+ Yes, I've threatened FTC, criminal, and civil complaints. While some say I am making it worse, HOW MANY TIMES is this going to happen?!? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three times -- I must be an idiot.
+ Still no correction and the page is just as it was yesterday, ALL GREEN except RED SITE RATING OVERALL.

URL: http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/prolasso.com <--- Check it out, ALL GREEN, ALL SAFE, EVERYWHERE.. except the SITE RATING.

THANK YOU for understanding. The fact is that given SiteAdvisor's MASSIVE market share, the FTC will FORCE them to act ethically. They can't do this to small businesses for NO REASON GIVEN.

 

As I read your post more closely, I understand it even more fully. Yea, who knows what is going on.

Further, I'm not the only site owner to come in upset. Their 10 day standard period of 'fixing' their problems is 10 days of death.

The reason moderators and senior staff don't stand up for McAfee (at least not publicly, I did have that one guy PM'ing me with the diagnosis of paranoid psychosis, despite him not being a doctor, lol). Anyway, it is because they are OFTEN in arguments with SiteAdvisor themselves.

SiteAdvisor has MANY obvious improvements that could be made (e.g. making some attempt to notify a site owner when the rating changes, that is pretty easy given the DNS registrant info). Another good idea is resolving 'improper bad ratings' in less than 10 DAYS!!! My God. Neither has been adopted. I'm sure every one of their senior supporters would approve of both being adopted, but this is the worst run company I have EVER seen. I have even had EMPLOYEES agree with ME and get trapped by SiteAdvisor management, never to be heard from again.

Really, if people heard just how HIGH PRESSURE their CERTIFICATION SALES are, then you'd understand why I come to speculative conclusions in the absence of ANY other explanation. I mean, it was seriously the most high pressure experience I've ever had. It was 'buy RIGHT NOW, or you're crazy'... that kind of thing.

 

I want everyone to know, the *IF* the pressure ever gets too much for me, now that SiteAdvisor has shut down my business without any cause even given 3 times, and my death results from this pressure (heart attack, whatever)... please know it was SiteAdvisor that killed me. I would feel it an honorable death to die to correct the sins of this mega corporation harming countless businesses every day, in my opinion.

 

Considering your past actions didn't result in anything, because it started all over again, perhaps, you should take a different approach: Make it public in as many on-line services as you can. I guess a really bad press would make them change their unprofessional attitude.

The media are always up for a good scandal.

Maybe it's a crazy idea, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

 

Well, after 4 days they finally decided to change the unexplained misrating. As SOON as they did, sales jumped up considerably. It was like going 0 to 60. This shows the impact of SiteAdvisor and their enormous install base, and even higher visibility base (with all Yahoo searches using them, etc..).

Since I have been attacked three times by this company, I've had about enough. I simply must protect my family and try to protect other families out there. Who knows how many businesses went out of business because of an errant rating by SiteAdvisor, maybe never knowing why they went out of business.

Further, SiteAdvisor's management has refused to adopt obvious and repeated suggestions to improve the accuracy and quality of its ratings, or mitigate the potential damage to innocent victims.

Therefore, this time, I am NOT hiding my criticisms. The truth is the truth, and if SiteAdvisor dare rate me RED for telling the truth, then they will only compound their existing problems with me.

http://www.bitsum.com/images/mcafee_siteadvisor_3.png

 

I'm glad that, at least for now, things are OK, and I hope they remain OK. I've been at www.bitsum.com and I see you provide 3 rating services. Perhaps, you could add more like BrightCloud, owned by Webroot -http://brightcloud.com/support/lookup.php (I'm not sure if it allow a link to directly provide the rating or if the domain needs to be input; I have JavaScript disabled, so I can't say whether or not it would give a direct link), AVG LinkScanner on-line -http://linkscanner.explabs.com (this one allows to provide a direct link for the domain to be verified) , Google Diagnostic -http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=bitsum.com

More exist. But, I'd say that, at least, AVG and Google would be two well known services/companies and would have a decent weight to help your visitors decide about a RED rating from McAfee?

-edit-

I'm aware that Webutation already has a Google Safebrowsing rating, but a direct link for Google's service would, most likely, have more weight?

 

OK, new development:

Due to this incident (presumably) McAfee has finally realized that human controlled bots can NOT be allowed on their network because they are essentially algorithms operating upon their database. They spoke clearly that they do not wish to have their own algorithms amended or replaced with user algorithms. Therefore, they BANNED the top-ranked reviewer by post count (over 2 million posts), as it was clear they were not 'Real Experience' reviews which SiteAdvisor wants.

This reviewer, while he may not have influenced my rating, did post defamatory remarks saynig I had malware and viruses. He then was forced to recant twice, as the first recant was so indignant and offensive it wasn't much better than the accusation (he was on a real power trip, thinking he was infallible or something). Anyway, he did recant again, so I guess I give him credit for that.

This change in policy, which I and others have long advocated, is a sign of CHANGE at SiteAdvisor. Once the ball of CHANGE is rolling, anything can happen.

That said, some people were not happy, and someone mysteriously attacked one of my domains on MyWOT. MyWOT had it fixed within HOURS (if not minutes), a state I hope SiteAdvisor someday reaches.

For this action, I've again hidden my criticisms of McAfee, giving them a 4th chance to make changes. This is the first time they have EVER made such a large and obvious policy improvement. So, it is a good sign.

---- There also may be more to the story, I feel I am missing a 'piece' of foul play to which McAfee won't admit for legal reasons. However, I may just be paranoid on that one . THAT SAID, It is a MYSTERY as to why my domains were rated RED these last two times. No threats were detected, no bad reviews, no nothing.... Soo.... I still am left guessing on that one.

 

Well you better check urlvoid http://urlvoid.com/ for your domains, on a daily basis. You don't want to cross virtual people with large blacklists Those people know how to submit and tick "malicious" faster than you complain. The total fail called SiteAdvisor is huge but there are loads of similar services. As you know there is a risk of no human research and that they simply bend over. WOT is cool as long as you and the little forum can control it. If I had a non specified number of people ready to red flag your stuff it would be red flagged at WOT. Or green if it was red. Very dynamic and open

 

All good ideas, but they did fix this still unexplained rating (finally). So, I don't have anyone to defend myself against. The attack the next day at MyWOT was fixed within HOURS there .

What I've done is purchased MyWOT certification for bitsum.com. It was affordable for me, while McAfee Secure costs MUCH more and was waaayyy out of my budget. So, I'm now 'official' with MyWOT.

Still, so long as we have multiple ratings services -- none of whom notify the site owner on a ratings change unless you've paid for that -- it is very hard for site owners to keep up with them all. I mean, I still don't know how long my last RED at SA was RED before I discovered it.

 

I will check, and you just scared the crap out of me ;o. It is true though. Honestly, even if these people are usually trying to act ethically, their sheer power makes it rife for corruption. If anyone INTENTIONALLY causes me trouble, there really isn't much I can do but close up shop and declare bankruptcy.. move my family in with dunno where we'd live.

 

And, for the record, I never tried to make enemies with ANYBODY. However, when someone comes and says I have 'malware, viruses, trojans, etc..'. Then they 'recant' with something almost as offensive, forcing another recant.. Well, my gripe with him ended then, though I did have other suspicions. I never complained about this person again. Just FYI, he never could show why he said that either... not even show a false positive, or anything.

SiteAdvisor decided to remove that reviewer because bots are really algorithms. Since they KNOW these algorithms are operating on their databases, they then become legally responsible for their rather harsh comments. THAT was what spurred the change, I believe. I was as surprised as everyone to hear of the removal. It could be there are unknown other factors too, we do not know the whole story I don't think, as my former ratings are still totally unexplained.

It was NOT my fault, all I EVER DID was defend my integrity when it was ATTACKED. So, blame McAfee if you want to blame somebody, if the attacker is listening Or blame your own sources, or maybe consider that you shouldn't have been making millions of generic, automated site reviews without at least being able to explain why a site was reviewed so harshly. Maybe it was on some 'list', but why was it on some 'list'? You see, that's the whole thing. As McAfee said, let them do their job, they just want 'Real Experience' reviews.

The timing, with the problems occurring after I turned down McAfee Secure, I dunno about that... just coincidental, I guess. However, the high-pressure sales meant high commission, so it isn't implausible that someone added my domain to a list as a 'warning shot' that I need to buy this certification. There is an INDICATION that something FISHY went on, that we do NOT KNOW.

 

Have you not wondered what would have happened if you did pay up when that was suggested by Mcafee? Business is business.

Not sure how "safe" or effective it is to use blocking services for purposes like extortion but if you plan to red flag something at WOT, lets say a hacker forum with goodies - AND they become aware of the "attack" I put money on a greener than grass outcome, heh. http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/hackforums.net as an example. Actually a pretty good one considering Malwarebytes suddenly thought it was a good idea to remove from their black lists. http://forums.malwarebytes.org/index.php?showtopic=36808 extortion? Nah Notice the marketing focused CEO overrules the guy who actually did the blocking, in the same thread. How it is and good luck. Of course site does not appear in all glory unless you sign up, appear innocent on surface but definitely is not. I am a member, must know the enemy - scriptkiddies... Quite an entertaining section on social engineering though.

I forgot to mention that Malwarebytes gave the site a 50% discount for a month. Higher than regular folks ever get. CEO was so so sorry. There is a thread about this on that forum, they basically laughed their butt off, heh. Good fun was had by all.

 

Yes, I HAVE wondered what would have happened if I did pay up. *IF* the problems occurred at all, I'm guessing they would have been fixed more quickly -- but that is sheer speculation.

Some people are now very upset with me because McAfee banned that bot reviewer (yes, a human controls the bot, but I am calling it a bot). They are saying it was due to a temporary false spam positive at clean-mx.de, some German web site. However, in the comments they said NOTHING of spam or mail problems, ONLY an *infection* was mentioned. Specifically, he said I had 'malware, viruses, and trojans'. There was no maybe in the sentence. Like I said, he had to recant twice because his first recant was so offensive, as if he and his 'sources' are infallible.

I find it ironic this 'good citizen' may have attacked my domain at MyWOT, so don't believe he did. That just happened to occur the moment he was suspended.

Now these people are mentioning some network of dedicated volunteers who protects us all (and maybe accidentally kills businesses every once and a while). Has it occurred to anyone that this group may they have a little too much power?

All I know is they blame ME for McAfee's decisions. ALL I EVER DID WAS DEFEND MY INTEGRITY AGAINST DEFAMATION.

In the meantime, I did 'pay up' at MyWOT, where my reputation (for many years) has been sterling. I could actually afford them, and, frankly, I can't fight any more. So, anyone who wants to take me down, I'll just be dead. I'm seriously letting you go ahead and kill me, if you choose. I know there is no other choice. Yes, it probably will result in a divorce and potential suicide, amongst other problems, but who cares... I know some of us haven't matured enough to know the 'real world', and how hard it is to support a family.