Should the Shadow Defender code be acquired by a proper developer?

I don't think it was a Shadow Defender clone, it was just some scammy, "lookalike" )))rofl((( with misspellings in the GUI trying to make a quick buck, it was debated for about a day, then exposed as crap and consigned to the bin, where it belongs.

 

What's interesting is that big companies behind DeepFreeze or Rollback Rx don't buy SD. Something tells me that most of them are not even aware of SD existence.

 

Nothing to wonder, as I said before: Where nothing is to sell, nobody can buy.

 

I've already said that I did this as an experiment and that it is a very long shot indeed, but nothing is impossible. BTW Diskshield was dropped because it was crap. SD isn't. If you think that all this is nonsense then that's your opinion and I respect it but I most certainly do not agree with it. At the end of the day it helps us to exchange opinions, rather than wait silently for 'letters from China' that never come.

 

Developers can be very possessive and antagonistic with each other where the value of their code is concerned. Returnil thinks their code is the best. So does Faronics and Horizon DS, I'm sure. SD is a small blip on the map anyway, only us in here really have kept it alive for the last 2 years.

Most big players are too wrapped within their own corporate bubbles to notice the existence of a small program developed by a one-man operation somewhere in China. In regard to the unique properties of SD, the big guys are still asleep. That's why I have contacted Melih (Comodo CEO) directly about this.

 

The thread and poll was only started a few days ago. As I said before, I have communicated directly with Melih (Comodo CEO) over this, and he has promised that he will keep an eye on it. Melih has very sharp business insticts. If and when he realizes that there is something of value to be had there, then he will pursue it.

Most computer users are oblivious of the benefits of light virtualization anyway. I'm in the industry myself and I see this every day. If I had a dollar for every time I saw that wide-eyed look on peoples' faces after they witness LV software in action, then I'd be rich by now. People just don't have a clue. Most users in the Comodo forums wouldn't have a clue apart from the CTM sub-forum lurkers (I'm one). People need to be educated towards the benefits of such tech, and my poll and thread hardly hurts towards such a goal.

I have already said that it is a very long shot, but if enough people contribute over time, then maybe, just maybe. At least Melih is aware of it now. It has also got us all talking and exchanging ideas, something that is never a bad thing.

 

Everybody sells if the price and circumstances are right. I am 1000% sure that if a big company was to e-mail 'Tony' (or whoever is handling the code ATM) with an offer for serious discussions, then those silent guys over there would suddenly become very verbal. They are a business after all, they sell the thing, they don't just give away freeware for fun.

 

Money talks? Well I did my part and I posted my support in the comodo forum. Im keeping my fingers crossed they will purchase it because comodo is more likely going to keep this as one time payment method rather than rentware. Ughhh too bad DF is a rentware, it is a solid program as well.

 

I agree with your points Edge. I want to add this: If we were to have steady and continuous communication with the person/people behind SD, and if they were to release a new version compatible with Win8 and SSDs (with a proper changelog this time), then this would be ideal! Somehow I can't see it happening though. This is why I have started this little 'crusade' to get people involved and maybe explore further possibilities.

Comodo has learned a lot from past mistakes. All of their freeware apps are rock-solid nowadays, the pinnacle of which is CIS 5, which is the best free HIPS firewall out there IMO. I hope that the upcoming CIS 6 continues in the same vein. I feel confident that if there was ever a chance for them to buy the SD code, then they would probably just change the program's interface and keep it current with evolving threats. I don't think that they would change it drastically. There would be no point for them to do so.

 

Comodo would most probably integrate such code to a future version of one of their existing freeware, or even release it as a new freeware app. I think that if Melih was to get this, then he'd keep it free.

 

I got some news from a chinese friend last year. Tony should be in some prison in china right now as he released something bad like spyware.

 

I heard of something like this a while back, when I was searching for traces of Tony within Chinese forums. Obviously it has never been verified one way or another. People just love rumours though...

 

As I know, Comodo also has a office in beijing. their guys should know Tony very well If he is not in the prison.

I guess Tony should work for Qihoo(360). Qihoo seems like the virtual tech very much. They have developed a smart multi-point restore solution built in the 360safe product.

 

I don't think so. And even if...if there are some other guys and not the real tony, a sell woudn't be legal. No serious company would sell under these circumstandes. Ok, Comodo...(remember the story with the CTM/Rollback Code And melih talks a lot when the day is long...)

Beside that: To have some code and to understand it really, so that a further development is possible are two complete different things.

You give the example:

They weren't able to develop this as a real alternative to Returnil, SD ... so why the hell they should be able to maintain SDs quality??

All this speeking is nothing against you and your "experiment" and effort. I find it sad to, if SD should really die. But I'm more realistic/pessimistic to realize that there is nothing we can to about it.

 

Tony (the English name that you use or used), if you are still alive (I hope, I pray) please ignore all of this trivial, speculation garbage (despite my LUST for your software) and get on with your real life, beyond computing, which is MUCH more important. If you decide or are able to come back: FAR OUT!!!!!!!!!

Acadia

P.S. And if someone or some group is using his cherished and revered name (at least at Wilders) for some ill begotten gain, then, well, I can't say what I wish would happen to you or else this post would be deleted!

 

You have some valid points there. I understand you weren't getting personal, I just think that being pessimistic and doing nothing is worse than doing something, anything.

BTW I've been PMing with Melih since last night and most of the day today, and he is not excluding the possibility of acquiring the SD code if it is worth it and has features that current Comodo programs lack. Melih puts a lot of faith on CIS 6 and Kiosk.

What I found strange is that they hadn't tested Kiosk with TDL4/Alureon until I mentioned it to Melih in a PM this morning. Once I pointed it out he tested it himself and he came back saying that Kiosk had managed to contain it. So something positive has already come out from my little 'crusade'. We now know that the upcoming CIS 6/Kiosk can definitely contain TDL4!

I think that it's good to talk and exchange ideas. Silence and pesimism has never done a good service to anyone.

 

Great, If Kiosk can be as good as SD then I see no reason for Comodo to acquire it nor do I care about SD. However once Kiosk comes out we can test it against malware ourselves and if it consistantly fails then perhaps the Comodo CEO will be more likely to be persuaded to buy the SD code.
I only hope Kiosk doesn't become a rentware.

 

Hi jo

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to convey here. Other users have mentioned something similar at the Comodo forum so I'll just paste parts of replies from there. I know it's long but please, read on:

I agree that Kiosk is a great step forward especially since we now know that it can contain such tough bootkits. The thing is that I just don't know how it works since it hasn't been released yet.

Can it start automatically with Windows? (I assume it can)

Upon system startup can it virtualize the whole windows environment including all disks and partitions connected to the computer, or is it more like an application-based sandbox?

Can it undo infections all on its own even when CIS Defence+ is not active or even when CIS is turned off altogether by some brainless user or by a child whose parents have failed to password-protect the program?

Can the user install something under Kiosk, see if they like it or not, and if they do then commit changes to the real system upon a reboot?

These are all things that SD can do and it can do them well, so these are the questions we should be asking ourselves when comparing it with Kiosk.

When the whole system is virtualized (including all disks attached to it), and this virtualization is sturdy enough on its own, this offers the ability to undo infections in cases where the users themselves have done mistakes and have left the door open for malware to creep in: e.g when the users have disabled the application-based protection (the sandbox), or when they have disabled the CIS Defence+ in order to install a program without annoying prompts. I have seen this happening many times with my clients, especially with their kids who have done such mistakes and as a result the system got infected. For such cases where the person holding the mouse is the weak link in the chain, we need system-wide light virtualization that is sturdy enough on its own even when antiexecution, application-based virtualization (sandboxing) or program monitoring are not active. Then we are able to fully reverse the changes or any damage an infection has caused to the system with a simple reboot, and without having to perform any cleanups.

This is why I have been installing Shadow Defender for my customers who understood its functionality and were willing to buy a license for it: With SD everything is reversible, no matter what the user, adult or child, does to the system. Parents can password-protect the program itself so the kids can't turn Shadow Mode off or commit anything to the real system. The kids can then install anything they want and play with it, and the parents are safe in the knowledge that on the next reboot it will all be gone with the system reverted back to its previous clean state. This is the kind of power I'm talking about. Of course this doesn't negate the absolute need for parents to be fully aware of what their kids do with their computers.

If Kiosk or the new CTM3 can provide such a system-wide everything-is-undoable functionality and resistance to sophisticated bootkits even when CIS is turned off altogether by some child or brainless adult, then I'll gladly close the poll and stop using Shadow Defender myself. If it doesn't then Melih should seriously think about either acquiring the SD code (which already possesses the aforementioned qualities and only needs to be brought up-to-date for full SSD compatibility - best option IMO), or build new system-wide light virtualization code from scratch that is both rootkit-proof and child-proof - with all the time, resources and effort that such an endeavour would entail.

 

It would be very good if shadow defender were to be acquired by comodo.Far better than the alternative which is for it to dwindle away and die.
My query would be this:.Isnt the new comodo kiosk more or less heading in exactly the same direction as SD..?
Why would comodo purchase such a program when an existing program.(kiosk).will no doubt as time goes on be able to accomplish the same thing plus kiosk is free.(for now.).
Can the SD features be improved upon as they are.?
The only option in my opinion is full integration of the SD code into kiosk.
Thats an interesting concept.

 

Hi Beethoven

It looks like Kiosk is an application-based sandbox, and not a system-wide light virtualization solution like SD. For app virtualization we have Sandboxie anyway and it already works very well; so if Kiosk is similar to it then I will most probably disable it. This doesn't mean of course that Kiosk is no good. Far from it! We know now that it can contain TDL4. Kiosk will be great for the computers of my customers, and also for computers with SSDs who currently cannot use SD unless TRIM is disabled in Windows.

I have covered most of these questions on my Poll thread at Comodo forums. Have a look at all my replies on page 4, long reads but they will answer all your questions (My username is KoPRoSKyLo over there):

http://forums.comodo.com/wishlist-c...tualization-functions-into-cis-t86643.45.html