ShadowProtect Desktop 3 is out...

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by HAN, Aug 22, 2007.

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  1. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    ShadowProtect Desktop v3 seems to have another activation method or something like that. What is the improvement and what are the possiblities without getting activation problems ?

    1. In case the harddisk is formatted or zero-ed (same computer).
    2. In case SP3 is installed in more than one FDISR/RBRx-snapshot (same computer).
    3. In case SP3 is un-installed AND re-installed on the same harddisk or the same FDISR/RBRx-snapshot. (same computer).

    Regarding SP2 :
    If I uninstall SP2 does this also reset my activation, so that I can re-install SP2 without activation problems ?
     
  2. Atomas31

    Atomas31 Registered Member

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    Hi Erik,

    I would also like to know because right now I have activation problem on one of my 3 FD-ISR snapshots with SP 3.0...

    I could activate my SP 3.0 on 2 of my snapshots but not on the third one and like always there support s*cks...

    After I report that problem (and asking almost the same questions than you Erik) they wrote the following to me :
    "Our system allows many re-activations. The issue is with ISR representing a brand new machine each time. With all of our customers, we recommend that they install and activate once, take an image and store that initial image somewhere safe. This saves tons of time in that the user does not need to reinstall Windows, but rather restore a good image. It’s a matter of minutes instead of hours.


    In regards to FD-ISR, ShadowProtect through imaging does what FD-ISR does with snap-shotting, so we’re not sure why you need both to work so closely together. You may need to pick one technology or the other. You always have the option of taking a cold image backup through the recovery environment of each snapshot on your machine.


    We do not consider this as a bug and are not planning on fixing this. We will not render the product completely open for massive abuse like is being done with other products such as ShadowUser.


    If you are migrating to another machine, you have several options, you can deactivate the license on one machine and activate it on another. If your machine dies, you can send us an email and we will update the activations. However, we will not allow abuse. "

    No need to say that I send them an email (in fact, 2 since then) to tell them to update my activations but since no more answers (and naturally no update of my activations as far as I know)...

    Atomas31
     
  3. prius04

    prius04 Registered Member

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    I hope the folks at SC realize (which is not to imply they care one way or the other) that it's precisely this issue that has made me hesitate to purchase SP3 Desktop.

    I can fully understand the need to prevent piracy but if they're going to use the current method to do so, they need to be a bit more responsive to any activation issues that might arise for legitimate purchasers of their product.

    Just my $.02....
     
  4. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    You got that right. StorageCraft created the problem, not the user, he paid to stay out of trouble.
    In the beginning, I was the ONLY ONE with an activation problem according ShadowProtect :rolleyes: , but the row gets longer and longer. They probably don't even have enough time anymore to fix user's activation problems.
    That's what you get when you have a crippled activation method.
     
  5. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    That's because the activation of SP3 is NOT based on real hardware identification. SC calls it a "Machine ID", but that is not true.
    I had two different "Machine IDs" on the SAME computer, SC thought I was a pirate. That is the ultimate proof that SC doesn't use a REAL "Machine ID", they use something else and nobody knows what of course, it's a secret. LOL.
    If I have 10 snapshots, I get 10 different "Machine IDs". :rolleyes:
    SC is very good in creating Image Backup software, but their activation method sucks.

    One tip : use copy/update from the second snapshot to the snapshot with activation problem.
    You have to re-install the rest of the snapshot of course, because copy/update creates IDENTICAL snapshots, but most likely your activation problem will be solved. Test it out and take your precautions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Stay cool guys. I've requested help on the issue.

    Pete
     
  7. Bio-Hazard

    Bio-Hazard Registered Member

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    This is very intresting thread. I would like to know what happens with this activation business.

    I have to say that SP 3 is working fine here and is quicker than the earlier version.
     
  8. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    Just lurking and watching:
    Eh? If that is true:
    That of course is absurd.
    IS there any other software that does this: I think not ?

    Is it a problem with FDISR copy technology?
    Where is SP getting and storing the "machineUID" that FDISR is not seeing/copying it.?
    ?at boot what has changed in an fdisr snap to generate the wrong UID
    ?different snaps in FDISR maybe configured differently: part of the joy.
    I see That as why and how SP and FDISR can and possibly should should exist together as complementary tools for some.
    This is not some trick with VM's to clone 100's of devices/systems to different machines to "abuse" SP.
    Where is the Unique machine ID?

    If the e-mail above is reproduced correctly that is really quite offensive: guilty by implication!
    :ouch:
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  9. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    There is nothing wrong with FDISR.

    You have to make a distinction between :

    1. When you use the copy/update function of FDISR, ShadowProtect will be copied to another snapshot, that's not an installation, that is making a COPY.
    This way you won't have an activation problem. This also counts for FDISR-archives. At least that's what I assume, because I can't test it thoroughly, because the activation is so fragile.

    2. If you boot in a snapshot and you INSTALL ShadowProtect, you won't have an activation problem either, but only the very first time.
    If you boot in a second snapshot and INSTALL ShadowProtect again, you have an activation problem, because each snapshot has its own "Machine ID". That is a serious restriction for FDISR-users.

    3. If you IMAGE your harddisk with SP installed and you restore that image, you won't have an activation problem either.

    4. If you format or zero your harddisk, where SP was installed and you INSTALL ShadowProtect again, I assume that you have also an activation problem, because the second install has a different "Machine ID", than the first install.

    5. If you uninstall and install SP again without formatting your harddisk, you won't have an activation problem, unless the activation counter stops your activation.

    Keep also in mind, that StorageCraft COUNTS the number of activations.
    So even when everything is OK, the counter can terminate your activation, because you reached the limit.

    I can only test this, when I have an agreement with StorageCraft to reset my activation over and over again until all tests are finished. Besides that's not my job, StorageCraft can do these tests also. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  10. Atomas31

    Atomas31 Registered Member

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    Well concerning my activation problem, here's what happens :

    I have in total 3 snapshots created with First-Defense - ISR in ONE and ONLY computer.
    I activate my SP 3.0 in my primary snapshot.
    I boot on my second snapshot and activated my SP 3.0 (still without problem).
    I boot on my third snapshot and try to activated my SP 3.0 - that didn't work. Thinking it was your server that had problem and also because I couldn't belieive my eyes, I retry right after that a few times with no luck.
    I reboot on my primary snapshot, send a first email about my problems than. I didn't reboot on my third snapshots since then and never try to activate my SP 3.0 on this snapshot until I receive an answer from you (wich wasn't positive)...

    Now, I just finally received an answer :
    "Our licensing computer has identified you are a security risk. It shows that you had a successful activation at 12:59 9/2/2007. It then shows you reactivated it 3 more times within 10 minutes. And then failed to re-activate 2 more times.



    Until I can prove otherwise to our activation team, you will not receive any further activations of the product. If you wish, we will completely refund your money and you can find another product that allows you to activate and run in the configuration you desire."


    That is in no way a way to tread a paying customer!!! They almost accusing me to be a thief when I have only one and only one computer. And, even more insulting, I have to defend myself with proof of my innocence... Very insulting and unaceptable!!!

    They might have one of the best backup solution but there support sucks and they're attitude toward there paying customers is unprofessionnal and unaceptable. I have the impression that they don't care about us little customer... If they want to protect there software that is OK with me but not at my expand and not by treating me like a thief when I am an honest paying customer!

    Best regards,
    Atomas31
     
  11. Atomas31

    Atomas31 Registered Member

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    Good Luck Erik in having in agreement of that nature with StorageCraft:cautious:

    Best regards,
    Atomas31
     
  12. Atomas31

    Atomas31 Registered Member

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    Hi Longboard,

    I can swear to you that this is the exact copy/paste of there first answer... And yes, it is quite offensive and frustrating and there second answer (that I finally receive and also copy/paste) is not better!!!
     
  13. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    @E-A and Atomas

    Ok I really want to be clear on this; there seems to be some overlap between your problems and some unique to each of you.

    If SP is installed and activated in Primary and then Copy/update to several snaps and/or archives, there is no issue: Yes?

    It is the reinstalling/reactivating or doing new activation per installation into each snapshot, reinstall of system that is the issue: Yes?

    An image with either SP or other utility that might be used for restoring will have the activation retained: Yes?

    What are the markers/scoring system to build machine UId?
    How much configuration can be changed?
    Certainly from what you are saying neither of you is changing HW.?
     
  14. Atomas31

    Atomas31 Registered Member

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    @Longboard

    If you install and activated your SP 3.0 on your primary snapshot and than create other snasphot from this one you shouldn't have any problem since that it was I have done with SP 2.0 (wich I buy before FD-ISR). I belieive that if you copy/update your primary snapshot to other snapshot there shouldn't be any problem either. The problem, I think, is simply when installing and activating SP 3.0 manually on each of your snapshots already created...
     
  15. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Couple of things. First the copying of an email is really not permitted in the forum. it would be best if the poster removed it and maybe paraphrased. Otherwise I suspect on of the other mods will spot it an remove it.

    2nd. I don't think there is any machine ID involved here. I think it is simply the number of activations.

    I don't know if there is any easy solution other than, installing it in one snapshot, activating, and the doing a copy/update into the other snapshots. That should work. Pain in the butt.

    The other thing as I think about it, is why does one really need SP3 in more than one snapshot. That will image the whole disk getting all the snapshot.

    The reinstall problem has been solved with SP3, as uninstalling free's up the activation.

    Pete
     
  16. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Yeah, that one has me scratching my head also. o_O

    Acadia
     
  17. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    The hardware doesn't count, the installation of SP counts and as long you do it only ONE time, maybe two, you won't have any activation problems.
    Possible problems begin with the second installation of SP.

    The reason why I think two is because Atomas has two activated SP's, the third one is not activated. When suddenly the activation didn't work anymore, Atomas probably repeated his activation several times like any other user would do and StorageCraft seems to record these repeated activations.
    This guy at StorageCraft doesn't know anything about Atomas, he only reads these repeated activations and sends him an email.

    StorageCraft doesn't have a problem with their activation method, USERS have a problem and who cares about users.

    I thought that activations were created to protect the software against pirates, crack writers, bad guys, not for pestering honest users, who paid the bill.
    Cracking SP is just another challenge for the crack writers, not a punishment. The good guys are punished for their honesty.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  18. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Okay Everyone

    I have to put my other hat on. This thread is on the brink of turning into a bash session, which isn't what the thread is about. Time has come to get back to the discussion of the program, and not activation bashing.

    Pete
     
  19. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    as per pete:
    ?storm in the proverbial?

    Heh: peter: I would if/when I install this put it into my primary and by 'default' be copied as part of "core" to any other snap/arx.

    If I could use CD boot to do all: then may approach in another way.

    Any hoo: interesting thread so far guys: I'm getting the manual via second intention: ta ;)
     
  20. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Yes you could do a copy to another snapshot, but I only do copies to archives.

    Actually if you don't use the incremental feature, and you test restore there is a lot to doing it from the CD. What I've done is boot to the CD, and then image. Now you can chose to verify, but before the verify was there, I'd mount the image, and extract a file from the mounted image to the desktop. If that went well, then restore the image. Done.

    I still test restore all images. With the continous incremental I've tested by picking a time in the middle and restoring to it. Works fine.
     
  21. Defenestration

    Defenestration Registered Member

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    How long should the boot CD environment take to load, because it's taking forever on my new machine (takes ages from when mouse cursor and background is displayed, to when Initializing... window is displayed, which then takes ages to display the "Do you want networking support ?", and currently "Loading frame...") ?

    It's finally loaded, but has taken over 5 minutes from when the mouse cursor and background were first displayed.

    My system is a P5B Deluxe mobo based system with 2 x 500GB WD hard disks RAID'ed together into 1 x 80GB volume and 1 x 920GB volume using onboard Intel RAID.
     
  22. Defenestration

    Defenestration Registered Member

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    Another thing, do the recovery environments already include include storage drivers for Intel onboard RAID ?

    One other thing, can I modify the bootable CD so that the time zone automatically defaults to my time zone, instead of always having to manually change it within the environment ?
     
  23. Defenestration

    Defenestration Registered Member

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    The boot environment also "hangs" when I clicked on Backup. There was no hang when changing the time zone, but just about everything else seems to take a long time.

    Just tried the boot CD on my 5 year old laptop and it had no problems, so there's something on my new machine that the boot environment doesn't like.
     
  24. Defenestration

    Defenestration Registered Member

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    I can't be sure yet, but it might have screwed with the system time on both my machines (laptop moved 1 hour forward and I didn't change time zone in boot environment, desktop moved 47 hours into the future when I set time zone to GMT with adjustment for daylight saving).
     
  25. Defenestration

    Defenestration Registered Member

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    Confirmed on my laptop that just by booting into the Vista environment and exiting will move the system time forward by 1 hour.
     
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