Shadow Protect: How do you use it?

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by besafe, Aug 9, 2007.

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  1. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    I agree,As the saying goes:Fortune favours the bold-You have to scream loud and hard that you exist anyway are basic principles in marketing.But its a sad destiny for many high quality products and not only in the softwaremarket that these people behind these products who knows everyhing about creating a superiour product lacking the knowledge or see no way to scream loud and so with time the product fade away and are taken over by the big screamers with their bad stuff with lots of $$ to spend.Afterall everybody good or bad have the right to make a living, thats normal who can denies that,so the more timid guy has something to learn from the bold !
     
  2. grnxnm

    grnxnm Registered Member

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    I'm sure as we grow that we'll focus more on other markets, but right now we're a small company and so we have to stay tightly focused in order to survive. Over-stretching ourselves at this time would be suicide.
     
  3. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Just do whatever you gotta do to survive. There are too many of these type products "out there" that are not top grade, that is, not super reliable. What few products out there that are excellent, I WANT YA'LL TO SURVIVE. :cool:

    Acadia
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Easter, what you say has merit, but overlooks profit. The US airlines tried what you are suggested severals years ago, by lowering prices, and filling up all the seats. It worked, with one minor flaw. They lost money.

    But here is the bottom line. While what you and Erik are saying may well have merit, there is a simple fact. No one is listening or cares at the moment about what you are saying. Different companies have different strategies, and that is they say is that. If your motive here is to try and convince them to lower prices, it isn't going to happen. The product stands on its own merit at the given price. Up to you to decide the value.

    Lets get back on the topic of how you use Shadow Protect, and not what Storagecraft should or shouldn't do.

    Cheers,

    Pete
     
  5. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Well, I use now, the Recovery CD of ShadowProtect to backup/restore my system partition and I uninstalled ShadowProtect completely in both FDISR-snapshots. One didn't work and the other one was installed in the wrong snapshot.

    I don't use ShadowProtect anymore to backup/restore my DATA partition. I use Karen's Replicator now.
    The reason is simple : I backup my DATA partition every day and I only need to hit one button to do this with KR.
    Loading the SP Recovery CD takes already 3m30s without doing the backup, KR takes less than 3m30s to backup my data.
     
  6. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    I read enough of StorageCrafts issues with ErikAlbert's registration debacle and i don't care how good the program is, to me it's NOT worth all that crap they put a user thru over registration and many like myself & others won't be brought down to the level catering to ANY companies who count how many times i install their programs ON MY OWN COMPUTER, that's MY INVESTMENT and it's worth much more to me than their product is worth to them because they have ample enough revenue to fill a dumpster with several runs of it they feel aren't up to their expectations and i'm not about to make up for those Quality Control mishaps for them.

    Sorry to sound a little forceful, but their registration policy is ludicrous and support looks less than professional or concern worthy save only the rep who tries to help in these forums.

    I will admit that i had long lost my license once for ShadowUser and an email i sent ASKING if it might be possible for them to issue another one was met with a quick replacement. I do applaud them for that and appreciate it, but come on StorageCraft, surely you can do better especially when you have a lot of users right here who would bend over backwards for you, the least you can do is recognize that and return the favor.

    That can't be too much to ask for, just change the registration if possible and let a guy/user install 100 times if need be on their own machine without making them jump thru all those ridiculous hurdles.
     
  7. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Activation issue is resolved. First they offered to help Erik if he needed, and second they are providing an uninstall of activation with uninstall of program. End of story.

    Not using any program is a user choice, but on good business software, activation is here to stay.
     
  8. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Erik

    You didn't happen to try using a schedule backup for your data while you it installed by chance. Would have done what you wanted automatically, with manual intervention possible, and very very quick

    I run such a job on my system image, and the sheduled increment takes on average 30 seconds, and I never even feel it running.

    Pete
     
  9. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I know about incremental backups, but I don't like them.

    Suppose I would like them :
    I have two WORK snapshots, which means I update my DATA partition via two snapshots.
    If I want incremental backups I have to install SP in each snapshot and then I get activation problems.
    You have only ONE work snapshot and you need only ONE installed SP.
    I also like to keep my external harddisk off-line.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2007
  10. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Peter2150

    TRY to see the other side of these issues, just like Erik's. I share greatly in his frustration. This repeated registration demand is simply ludicrous.

    REMEMBER!! We are in a battle here, the battle is for Ultimate PROTECTION from sudden disaster and loss, and is at the very heart of Erik's concerns over this SC issue, and many other users as well.

    Doesn't StorageCraft understand that SECURITY is the highest priority any good company should want to offer to it's customers? Not making them dance a jig over repeated email registrations and in the meantime perhaps run the risk of a customer falling victim because of that issue?

    Incrementals SHOULD be available to ALL snapshots and not just a single one. What happens if some other malfunctioning code destroys his SP snapshot? He then is faced with Double-Jeopardy. StorageCraft "CAN" remedy this if they want to.
     
  11. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Peter and Easter,

    Even when I could install SP in two snapshots to make an incremental backup possible in both snapshots, I really wonder if that is even possible.
    I would have two different SP's for incremental backups.
    Does SP-1 knows what SP-2 does ? I don't think so.
    What about the numbering of incremental backups ? Maybe it becomes a mess.
    I can't test it either, because I have an activation problem with the second install of SP.

    If I install KR in two snapshots, I know in advance it will work. I don't need to install it twice, because I backup via my off-line snapshot.
     
  12. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Erik

    You are probably right. Working in two snapshot would probably be a mess on scheduling.

    What you could consider, is first contacting grnxmn at about installing in the second snapshot. He should be able to help you with that. Then you'd set up a schedule such as the automatic schedule wouldn't run, but you can set them off manually. They do run sooo so fast.

    If you want to try it, and need any help let me know.

    Pete
     
  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Easter

    Climb down off your soap box. If you want what SP has to offer buy it, and activate it. End of discussion. If you don't like their jig don't dance, it's that simple. What Storagecraft understands is to stay in business they have to be profitable. They do that as they see fit, not as Easter see's fit. That's reality, and nothing you say here matters, cause they ain't listening.

    Peter/posting as a member.
     
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Okay folks. We have all taken this thread way off topic. Time for that to end.

    The subject of this thread is Shadow Protect: How do you use it? Any further posts relating to anything else will be removed.

    Pete
     
  15. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Yes I could contact grnxmn or support, but that is against my principles.
    I like to INSTALL my paid softwares without needing other people.

    I will try to install SP again in September and I might have another activation problem, unless the reset of my activation works, which has been done by StorageCraft, but there is no proof it will work.
    In the end StorageCraft will think "Oh it's Erik again, the one that claims he is re-installing SP on the same computer, but he is installing SP on the n-th computer."

    Since the Recovery CD doesn't need any activation, my $70 isn't a total loss.
     
  16. Thorz

    Thorz Registered Member

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    Well speaking about the USE of SP: I have asked this here before without an answer, I will try it one more time.

    Backing up OS partitions with SP (or other imaging progs) is definitely the way to go, but what about partitions with data (docs, video, pics, music, etc)?

    I have read about the possible dangers of image corruption and that using a sync program like Karen's Replicator could be better for backing up data files as it just copies the files and do not store them in a container prone to corruption.

    I was thinking to use SP for making incremental backups of my data partition into another internal hard disk, but if the risk of corruption is non acceptable I will have to go for a synching or replication utility like KR.

    About the comparison between incremental imaging vs replication (both being run automatically scheduled) the things that come to my mind are:

    Pro Imaging:
    • Compression: Possibility to compress the images for saving storage space.
    • Possibility of recovery of previous versions of files
    • Protection against virus or user error as replication will just automatically copy the infection or error (deleted folders/files) to the backup disk.
    • Easy storage as the backup contains fewer files to worry about.
    • Easy scheduling and automation as you are managing all your backup jobs from the same program (SP).

    Pro replication/synchronisation:
    • You will always have the same files ready for use, without needing any restore.
    • Corruption is a minor issue for that it will not affect the hole backup but just some files if it happens.
    What do you think of this?

    Is there a way to protect the SP images with some kind of recovery record?
     
  17. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Thorz

    In my case I have everything in one partition, so it all goes on the image. I haven't had any issues with image corruption. Mind you I test restore every image I make. But I've restored some of the first images I've taken, and they are fine. I do also backup my data with a sync program, but that is as much to move it from machine to machine.

    I've tested and beat on ShadowProtect and not had any problems. If the image verifies, and test restores it's good.

    You can also as I've posted above use the schedule function to set up jobs and make use of the fast incrementals to help.

    PM me if you need help.

    Pete
     
  18. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    Hello, I been used to backup my important stuff to ext. disks,every file is copied 3 times to 3 different ext. disks.I my case mostly image files,i just copy it from windows shell[copy to...],these files are NOT maintained by KR but indexed by the archive/index app. i use,editing and updating is done within this app.You can say this is a datastream beyond KR and SP and compl. independent.[ reason : many terrabytes of stuff ]. Other pers. stuff like Outlook,music,my documents and the archive/indexing application itself is maintained by KR.And these data reside on an another part.[G]The job of Shadow Protect is to image the system partition[C:/]and because its only Windows and applications the backup/restores are fast.And as Pete said,verify the image made by immediate restore after backup,its the only way that it will restore in the future (forget about verifying from within SP,if you want to know what it means,look over at the Acronis forums).
    FYI i don't use raid,everyhing is done manually.Your suggestions Thorz are already a good answer to yourself,i basically agree.
     
  19. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    After reading my earlier post,i can imagine that it looks a little disturbing.
    So short on : System partition [C:] protected by SP
    : Data partition [G] protected by KR
    : Imagedata protected by multiple copies on different
    external USB drives,maintained by Imatch
    mine archive/indexing application.

    Imatch itself[program+thumbnail databases]with 9 gig on data is also on[G]and protected by KR.
    Systempartition [C:/]is also well protected by FDISR with Snapshots and Archives.
     
  20. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I have the same approach as "Huupi", except that I'm not a photographer.

    System Partition [C:] = Windows + FDISR + Applications
    Backup with SP Recovery CD : backup-time = 4-5 minuts, restore-time = 6 minuts
    Snapshot-1 is also archived.
    Snapshot-2 is also archived.
    So image and archive cover eachother.

    Data Partition [D:] = personal data, nothing but folders and files.
    Backup with Karen's Replicator.
    I don't need the incremental backups of SP to keep my Backup Partition [E:] up-to-date.
    After running KR, the folder on my external harddisk "E:\Backup Data" = "D:\"
    I don't need more than that.
    ---------------------------
    I checked the required space on my external harddisk :
    1. Karen Replicator volume = 27.8gb (= volume of E:\Backup Data)
    2. ShadowProtect's volume = 25.5gb (= volume of .spf-file)
    So KR needs only 2.3gb more than SP on my external harddisk for the same backup.
    And KR doesn't require mounting/dismounting to restore individual files.

    I also checked the pure scan-time of KR, in case there is nothing to backup.
    1. First I ran KR one time to do the normal backup.
    2. Right after that I ran KR again and it took only 7 seconds to check if there was something to backup or not.
    That is the absolute minimum run-time of KR : seven seconds is as good as nothing in the backup/restore world.


    Watch this !!! The fun part of my tests.
    I formatted my second harddisk, which contains my Data Partition [D:] in order to test a full restore with KR.
    KR restored my data partition in 17 minuts (28gb)

    I also had an image-file to test the restore with the Recovery CD.
    SP restored my data partition in 27 minuts (28gb)

    Do you realize that this woman Karen has beaten a whole army of skilled male engineers at StorageCraft regarding data recovery : 10 minuts faster than SP. :D
    Congrats Karen !!!
    Huupi, I thank you too for advicing me KR and give it a fair chance to prove itself. :cool:
     
  21. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Just a reminder, this is a thread about ShadowProtect. Specific discussion about KR should be in a thread on that subject, and if you want to compare, a thread comparing them.

    Pete
     
  22. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    I, for one, would welcome such an interesting thread, I wouldn't be able to offer anything but I would sure be doing lots of reading. :cool:

    Acadia
     
  23. Thorz

    Thorz Registered Member

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    Thanks all for the detalied answers.

    Did you use compression with SP?
    Which level if you did?

    KR looks nothing less than impressive.

    I will make the new thread about comparison.
     
  24. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    I would'nt compare but KR is only for Backup/restore data,CAN'T DO imaging[restore MBR,set active]. SP sole target is imaging [CAN restore MBR and set active]+ can be used for just backup/restore data, so SP can do more then KR !! Its only for an easy workflow that i use them together.And i like to add that the Snapshot coding on an active System places SP in another dimension so its useless to compare SP with any regular Backup app. like Syncback,Karens Replicator and the like.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2007
  25. Thorz

    Thorz Registered Member

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    It is clear that replication cannot be used with OS partitions, but for backing up data is a viable solution too vs imaging.
     
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