Sandboxie Versus Virtualbox Ubuntu

Discussion in 'sandboxing & virtualization' started by truthseeker, Sep 16, 2008.

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  1. truthseeker

    truthseeker Former Poster

    What makes you conclude, even though you indicate it's an assumed guess and estimate, that it's 95%?

    What data, research etc have you studied to conclude it's around 95%?

    Have you spoken personally to ever single Linux user on Earth? :argh:
  2. jrmhng

    jrmhng Registered Member

    He makes the point that it is an estimate. The point is that for most users, it doesnt matter whether it is an open source or not proprietary, they are equally helpless to edit the code and correct bugs.
  3. truthseeker

    truthseeker Former Poster

    Yes, I mentioned the fact that he indicated it was an estimate. So my question was.... How did he come to 95% as an estimate? Why not 30%? or 99%? Why 95%?

    In my estimate its more like 99.5%
  4. doktornotor

    doktornotor Registered Member

    That's not a valid argument. Roughly 99.9% of users don't understand the closed source code either; the point is that fixing closed source apps is pretty much impossible for anyone except the vendors themselves.

    This frankly doesn't have anything in common with kernel version; your system is not set up correctly.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  5. Pseudo

    Pseudo Registered Member

    "(it's an estimate, bear with me)" - there may be more C developers using Linux than you think. I don't see why you're making a fuss about an estimate, either. :)
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  6. Pseudo

    Pseudo Registered Member

    When was there an argument, or do you seem to make one out of everything? It's just that you made it sound like you (or someone) really does unofficially patch something like an OS just because it's open-source. Everything man made is prone to bugs, period, it doesn't matter if it's open-source or closed-source.

    Now, let's reply to your little remark about my post which wasn't directed at you... Irrelevant to the kernel version? I simply stated it for the possibility that those working on Linux may have "patched" it. I guess if I would of said Linux v0.1 beta it would of made a difference, huh? The "test" was done under a Fedora 9 LiveCD, default settings. I wasn't running as root, and I don't suppose most users change their settings just to prevent such commands. I can just imagine myself post: "Well, I ran the command. It did nothing. (Note: I used specific instructions for preventing such a thing)"
  7. doktornotor

    doktornotor Registered Member

    No, it wouldn't make any difference if you said 0.1beta (beyond the fact that there's never been such version). This simply does not pertain to kernel version in any way. Running an infinite number of processes won't fly too way unless you have unfinite number of resources. The system doesn't crash, it's unresponsive because you are spawning processes faster that they can be killed.

    You can file a bug with Fedora and see whether they change the defaults or not... Technically, this is not a bug since there's no magic safe number of processes that'd fit anyone's HW and usage patterns. Some distributions choose to limit this by default, some don't. That's why it's configurable after all.

    P.S. argument (definition): a fact or assertion offered as evidence that something is true; "it was a strong argument that his hypothesis was true"
  8. truthseeker

    truthseeker Former Poster

    Not making a fuss, just asking :cool:
  9. Pseudo

    Pseudo Registered Member

    Let me fully respond to this post; I didn't come to any conclusion that there are exactly 95% people who don't understand Linux's code. You understand I stated that it's an estimate, but you continue to say something as silly as "Have you met every single Linux user on Earth?" - and let's not forgot the "Argh!" smiley. I don't have to personally meet each and every Linux user to make an estimate. You don't seem to realize C is the most, if not in the top 3, used language on Earth. Any C (or C++, or possibly another language) programmer with a little experience will be able to understand at least some of Linux's code, although not your average user can put together or contribute to those hundreds of thousands of lines of code to make a kernel *puppy*; and you made an answer as large as 99.5%. Now, please, tell me how you came up with your answer. Please, please, please.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  10. Pseudo

    Pseudo Registered Member

    I don't know if Mr. Torvalds started with a v0.1, with a v1.0, or even had a beta. Do you personally know him, or were you there right when he uploaded his first revision? Yes, it may be on Fedora's fault not to "fix" it up - but after all, I just tested for Fred. Has it revealed for him that the command actually does something in Linux? I believe so. Yes... I know the definition of argument, I decided to throw that in since you do seem to want to start arguments. :D
  11. doktornotor

    doktornotor Registered Member

    The first version was 0.01 (after that, 0.02, 0.03, 0.10, 0.11, 0.12). However, the point was that people mostly don't get that saying "Linux x.y.z" means kernel version only, and says nothing about the distribution used. ;)
  12. Pseudo

    Pseudo Registered Member

    I'm done; not that this is opposed to your last reply, doktor. :p I don't want any argument to continue, but you really appear to know more about Linux versions than me. ;)

    Back on topic: "Sandboxie Versus Virtualbox Ubuntu"
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  13. truthseeker

    truthseeker Former Poster

    How do you know for certain? Have you met every single C and C++ programmer on Earth? :argh:
  14. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    I estimating that when the percentage of the posts arguing about how an estimated estimate was determined increases to some estimated level that this thread will be closed.

    It's getting that silly. Enough! Back on topic.

  15. Pseudo

    Pseudo Registered Member

    Haha. I decided to look up the newest TIOBE Programming Community Index, top 3 languages in order: Java, C, C++. I can't believe Java is more popular. :doubt:
  16. truthseeker

    truthseeker Former Poster

    Where is java used? Just for webpages isn't?

    And what can C++ do that C can't?
  17. Pseudo

    Pseudo Registered Member

    Java is used for quite a few programs (Including OpenOffice, the GUI in Symantec Endpoint Security, tons of other things...); the only real benefits I see of using it is that it's cross-platform, it's slow and bloated compared to almost everything else. :gack:
    C++ was created by Bjarne Stroustrup as a "better C." (C was created by Bell Labs) - both languages have their pros and cons, I use C++ for general purposes though. :)
  18. Cerxes

    Cerxes Registered Member

    For cuting development- and maintenance time it´s preferable to use an object-oriented type of language for development.

    Excellent for network programming/JSP.

    Compared to C/C++ yes, since both e.g. Java & C# needs the VM/runtime engines for executing the applications. However, using a VM/runtime engine is from a security view preferable since you don´t allow access to the kernel and don´t have the memory issue either to worry about. Since CPU developers are integrating VM´s into the cores at the same time as they become faster, it only means that the type of languages that Java/C# represents will be de facto standard even for kernel development in the future. This will vastly improve the overall stability & security.

  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Time out. This thread is not about programing languages. If you want to discuss that we can move it to another thread.

  20. Trespasser

    Trespasser Registered Member

    I don't know, Peter. I find it interesting.
  21. truthseeker

    truthseeker Former Poster

    Thank you Pseudo and Cerxes for your answers :thumb: Helped me a lot to understand.

    Sorry Peter2150 for getting sidetracked.
  22. truthseeker

    truthseeker Former Poster

    I did some more tests, and whatever I type into Ubuntu firefox which is a guest to the Vista host, Vista is not able at all to detect the keyboard.

    So Virtualbox seems to defeat any keyloggers etc that may be running on the host Windows.
  23. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Then start another thread. It doesn't belong in this one.
  24. Searching_ _ _

    Searching_ _ _ Registered Member

    Hello, You have to configure network in VB to surf. So, if everything is isolated in VB, Is the network also isolated? Would a packet sniffer on the host capture the data from the guest? Is it possible to configure the network inside VB so it is insecure to the host?
  25. truthseeker

    truthseeker Former Poster

    Great question.

    Anyone know?
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