RollbackRX, RestoreIT, Acronis True Image, FD-ISR?

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by ejr, Mar 5, 2007.

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  1. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

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    I am using RollbackRx with the beta version of First Defense (which does not use the MBR) and Acronis Workstation. It has worked pretty good so far with one exception. When doing a Recovery Restore from the Acronis boot disk, everything restored okay but RollbackRx. I had to reinstall it and I lost my previous snapshots.

    Not really a big deal as I do almost daily Acronis Backups and FDISR Archives. I have complete confidence in the Acronis and First Defense programs used together. I like the speed of RollbackRx and so I use it all the time. If there is a problem with it, I can always restore an FDISR Archive or in the worst case, from the Acronis Boot Disc.
     
  2. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Well that means your Paragon does a very good job as it should be. I have the same experience with ATI + FDISR. :)
     
  3. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Osip

    For me having to do a raw image is a non-starter. I have a 640gig c: drive with 18.5 gigs in use. Need I say more.
     
  4. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    why the hell do you need 640gb?
    do you have a big home server or something?
    lodore
     
  5. osip

    osip Registered Member

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    No,no need...Guess that our strategies "differs" a little bit..I have choosed to keep the sys drive as small as possible (within reason of course),in my case C drive on 10 gigs with some 5-6 in use..All other things on other partition and usb drive...Have found this great for raw imaging together with rbrx/eazfix protecting C exclusively,also,due to old habit I also have ATI as an ´extra´for sentimental reasons(lol)...This means that a C: image with paragon is ~8-9 gigs...ATI partition image ~1,8 gigs...Keeping the sys drive small makes this strategy smooth and flexible...Partitioning in my case is mainly used only for the above described scenario...
     
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Does it ever hurt to have to much disk space. Better to get it with the machine then have to fool with adding later. Okay, so even if were only 160G, I still wouldn't want to raw image.
     
  7. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I think some folks would say our strategy's are wildly different.:D I just use one partition, and it works fine for me. My full drive space usage is 18.5gig. Updating a First Defense Archive which updates from the primary snapshot which is about 14gig takes about 1 minute. Doing a full image of the drive with Shadow Protect takes right at 5 minutes. Restore time is about the same. Works well for me. But yeah, a raw image, well, no.
     
  8. osip

    osip Registered Member

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    Well,seen your backup strategy with FDISR and it seems pretty good to me...I don´t have it...My example is tailored for RBrx-Eazfix/paragon...You win with the image time restore,Paragon takes about 30 min here...but on the other hand I can instantly freely jump between RBrx/EF several snapshots...
     
  9. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    very true.
    im thinking about how to arrange my new pc before i build it.
    i want a second internal hard drive to store images of the first drive and a backup of my documents.
    i will probably have two or three partitions on the first drive.
    system/data/programs
    or maybe just system/data.
    then i will try to keep the system partition small so its fast to image.

    so in that case if the first drive goes i can just buy a new first drive then stick in the recovery disc and restore the image from the second HD and im back and running in minutes.
    lodore
     
  10. osip

    osip Registered Member

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    That´s my approach as well...
     
  11. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    great minds think Alike:D

    now i just need a weekend job to pay for the computer.
    i will probaly buy windows XP instead of stupid vista.
     
  12. ejr

    ejr Registered Member

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    Maybe this is a silly question, but one that popped into my mind. Suppose you are using one of these backup utilities to save either snapshots or full blown images to a partition.

    What is to keep a malware from infecting the data on the partition?
     
  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Who are you askng?
     
  14. ejr

    ejr Registered Member

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    Anyone that cares to reply!
     
  15. osip

    osip Registered Member

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    an image has no virological contanimation from outside the image,it´s capsuled in it self and have no connection to other data,if it´s infected in it self that´s another story when restoring...A snapshot infected you can take to delete and restore to one you´re sure is clean...
     
  16. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    If I really want to do something, that I am convinced could infect me(and I usually don't) I first image my drive to an external USB drive, and then turn it off. I defy malware to infect that image. I then restore it from from a CD based version. I find it hard to picture how an infection could remain.

    Pete
     
  17. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    Watch me waving my hand.

    First of, reading your requirements for your recovery plan, I would suggest a mirroring solution, rather than a rollback solution.
    FD-ISR, Rollback RX, Restore-It, they all do a fine job, but they are more focused on getting back to a previous situation.
    If I understand you right, you want to restore the current situation after disaster strikes. Correct?

    Peter's solution of double hardware and syncing the data is an option, RAID configured with mirroring would be another option. Maybe better is file replication to a external hard disk. For example File Replication Pro. I don't have experience in this area, but I bring this up because I think that you should consider this option too.

    Back to your question, Disk imaging solutions are great, and there is more than Acronis. If you look for a rollback solution, then Farstone Restore-It is great too, reliable and light on resources. For your requirements I would suggest disk imaging over rollback solutions, though.

    Are you asking how to protect backups from infection? I don't think that malware tries to access backup data, but backup data can be infected when you create the backup while your system is infected.

    Hope it helps.
     
  18. ejr

    ejr Registered Member

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    OK...After a lot of thought, here is what I want my backup solution to encompass:

    1. Protect me from malware. If I get an infection, I want to be able to quickly and easily restore the system to a known good state prior to the infection.

    2. Windows Restroration. Suppose Windows gets corrupted. I don't want to have to reinstall Windows, then all of my programs, then set my network back up, and then finally add all data back to my programs from my backups. I want to be able to reboot and quickly be back up an running with minimal to no data loss.

    3. Hard drive failure protection. If my hard drive goes bad. It would be nice to be able to pop in a new one, load a bootable CD, and have my whole system restored (program files, application data, email, everything) like it was before the crash.

    Those are the main requirements. Other things to consider.

    A. I have 1024 MB of RAM, but my ststem frequently gets down to the 300MB of available physical memory. So I don't want something that is going to tax my system too hard.

    B. I will be more likely to frequently backup my system if it easy to use and doesn't take too much time. I am presently using 9GB of a 69GB C drive. So my system is not huge and probably won't take long to backup no matter what route I go. But if I have a fast, easy way to backup data, I will use it more frequently than if it is slow or hard to use/understand.

    c. It would be nice to be able to tell this program to back up my system once a day and have it automatically do it. That way, should disaster strike, I never lose more than a days worth of data. I can handle that.

    d. My PC does not have a DVD RW drive...Only a CD RW drive. So backups probably need to be compressed significantly to fit on a CD.

    So considering all of the above, what options do I have?
     
  19. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    1: external HD on USB (or swappable internal bay)
    2: FDISR
    3: Shadow Protect or Terabyte Utilities ( or ATI: for me last choice)

    There are others for what you want and that combo is expensive but they WILL do what you want reliably.
    Regards it as serious insurance.
    These have all been tested to breaking point many times

    Heh: cant wait to see what else gets posted, and there are many good options

    Regards.
     
  20. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    I consider this a single requirement: You want to recover from any disaster, hardware or software. Backup by itself does not protect you from malware.
    This requires an external device or second independent internal hard disk to store you backup data. Your backup storage can go bad too :eek: , it's more secure to have double backup storage and rotate.
    Acronis TrueImage installs a Windows service and modifies the MBR, DriveSnapshot functions without any installation needed. Paragon Drive Backup functions without installing additional services and doesn't modify the MBR. There is also Image for Windows.
    CD-ROM as backup storage is not reasonable, you need something larger.
    I also suggest that you consider splitting your disk into at least two partitions, one with the system and a second one with your personal data.
    The advantage is that you only need to image the system after you install updates and/or new software. That leaves you with a daily backup routine for the personal data only.
     
  21. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    @wilbertnl

    Acronis doesn't do anything to the MBR if you don't install the Stupid Zone or the I may recover you manager. Pardon my humor, but those to me were stupid features.

    @ejr

    Couple of points. Realistically the only value of your CD drive is to use the Recovery CD's or Bartpe disk version of programs. You need an external drive.

    Also you might want to rethink your premise. You want it easy so you will do it. That doesn't suggest to me you value your data highly. If your data and system is really important to you, than backup/imaging/whatever you call it, must have a high priority

    I never do any imaging stuff on a schedule. I do it manually, watch it to make sure there are no obvious errors, and then I test it by doing a restore Takes a small amount of time, but for me the loss would be a disaster. That doesn't mean it has to take long though.

    I do 3 layers

    My first layer the data synchronize takes about 2 minutes total. I do it dailly.

    My 2nd layer which is refreshing the FDISR archive takes about 2 minutes, for the 15gig. I do this daily. This will fix a software disaster or non bootable system due to software in about the time it takes to do 2 reboots plus about 3 minutes. I could also recover from a hard drive failure this way, but it would take about an hour.

    My 3rd Layer is complete disk image. To image both snapshot of FDISR which is 20g takes about 6 minutes. Restore is also about 6 minutes. This I do generally once a week. But if I have to do a restore from a week old image then FDISR brings me current as described above.

    I actually have a 4th layer in that I have two machines, pretty much configured identically software wise. All business activities can be swapped to either machine, so they also serve as backup's


    I do this all manually, and test it because to me the loss of both the data and system would be a disaster.

    The first thing you have to do is establish the value and need of having recovery options. That will dictate all your next actions.

    Pete
     
  22. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    Maybe the procedure changed in the latest releases, but I have seen Acronis modify the MBR when I restore from Windows and Acronis needs to reboot to finish the procedure.
    I agree that imaging and restoring from a recovery CD is the preferred option, though.
    But convenience is asked for in this thread.
     
  23. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    ejr,
    Separating your data from your system is indeed a good suggestion.
    - it simplifies your backup, data needs more backup, than system.
    - you never have to worry about your data anymore, when your system partition is in trouble.
    - you can do anything with your system partition, while your data is still there, which means total freedom in your system partition.

    Having 2 harddisks, one for your system partiton and one for your data partition, is even more safer and get yourself an external harddisk instead of fooling around with CD's or DVD's.
    Become a professional and get back on the horse LOL.
     
  24. osip

    osip Registered Member

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    Right,ATI does´nt touch the MBR...But as said RBrx/Eazfix do...So this is my conclusion:

    1.Fast instant sys drive restore with snapshots as a daily or more routine=>rbrx/easfix,FDISR for getting back to a previous state...
    2. Absolute essential image sw for eventual hardisk failure or corruptions in snapshots=>Paragon(captures snapshots + no mbr issues in conjunc with snapshot preboot progs) or ATI (does not capture RBrx snapshots + need for MBR restore when restoring if you use RBrx)+some others...
    3.Small sys drive for fast and small imaging.
    4.Avoid dependency on just 1 physical drive for image storing=>USB 2.0 drive or another phys drive as a slave...

    With these combinations you have fast snapshots in your practical daily operations and also absolute insurance if you suffer from a disaster...
     
  25. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Wilbertnl

    I think you are right. That is just another on of those options, that frankly does more harm than good, and so I never consider it. I think it's dumb, because then people use it, never test the recovery CD, etc, and then the disk fails, and then......


    Pete
     
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