Rollback91 and Hot Imaging

Do I need to reinstall Rollback after restoring with IFW

 

Normally yes, but only if you restore the mbr too.

-If you back the sector0 from outside the OS (with BootIce for example) you can restore the sector0 after you restore the image and you won't have to resinstall RBRx afterwords.
-If you know how to use a hex editor you can modify the file C:\Program Files\Shield\128.dat, to reflect your real mbr. In that file RBRx redirects the reads/writes on the sector0. If you do, you won't have to reinstall RBRx after a restore. Only recommended for advanced users.

Panagiotis

 

I am not an advanced user. What do you mean don't worry about the order of the drivers

 

-See here https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1836164&postcount=150

From what is installed first depends how their drivers are loaded during boottime. If you use VSS you won't have to worry about the order that you install RBRx and IFW.

-Never mind those thigs about track0. Just restore with IFW/IFD/IFL and then rollback Rx will inform you if it needs to be reinstalled.

Panagiotis

 

So using VSS is the way I should go? If and when I use IFW I just want a simple restore.

 

Yes, you can use either VSS or you should install first IFW and then RBRx. The great thing of IFW is than you can achieve the same thing with more than 1 way; and this is why I love it.

Panagiotis

 

Good thread guys..
Makes my head spin a bit
Pandlouk, MarkyMoo and BrianK: legends.
Nice to be able to 'slipstream'. Thx.

LOL, ya.

DS I tried some time ago... they're no slouch in the "options" dept either.
@MarkyMoo: they responded so well to your testing. Nice.


I hope HDS have you all both on retainer: they owe you.

Respect

 

Geez, I think I'd rather be back in law school then try and disseminate how to successfully create a "hot" image. There is a lot of conflicting information here; Aaron has been steadfast in saying that DS can successfully create and restore and image so that Rollback RX functions as intended. Others say, no, that is not possible. Oh wait, it is but only with X MBR utility. As I said, a lot of conflicting information, and a lot of veering off topic. Is it possible to create and restore functional DS images within Windows when Rollback RX is installed, or not. Is it possible with any other imaging utility? Is so, which ones, and what else will I need?

 

I can speak only to the work I've done. HOT imaging (from within the active Windows) of a complete, functional Rollback-protected system including all RBRX snapshots is not possible using any tool in my chest except "Image For Windows," and that was possible only with a REGISTRY tweak. The tools I've extensively tested are DS, ATI, and Image For Windows. All those tools (even IFW without the above mentioned REGISTRY tweak) will produce a functional image for restoration that only includes the current system state at backup time, and following restoration, Rollback RX will have to be re-installed... i.e., no functional RBRX system w/snapshots.

COLD imaging (from a separate BOOT environment other than the one RBRX is installed in) may usually be performed successfully as long as the imaging tool includes the option to image ALL SECTORS on the partition/disk (not just the ones "used"). If a "used sector only" option is activated during a COLD imaging operation, the result WILL NOT be the machine state at backup, it will be the machine state at the Rollback RX baseline (different than an unsuccessful HOT imaging operation)... usually an old and not very useful state to restore to. Rollback RX will not be functional after this type of restoration.

 

Nate,

You are stating what I've said out of context, so I need to qualify your comments with what I've actually said (all along) as to how I backup my RB system partition. My posts have always suggested booting into a 'Live OS' (e.g., WinPE/DOS) and enabling the imaging program's raw imaging mode (DS' maintenance mode) to backup. Up until recently this 'cold-imaging' method was the only proven way to successfully backup an RB system partition with all snapshots fully functional.

Over the past month (or so) discoveries by Pandlouk and The Rollback Frog have brought about a 'hot-imaging' method to achieve similar results; but only by using Image For Windows (and carefully following their directions)!

I don't see anything conflicting about all of this (or other RB backup techniques). You just have to first set your backup objectives and then select the method most suited for those needs as well as for your system configuration.

Aaron

 

Hmmm.....This is all too confusing. 'Maybe it'll work if you do this, or this.' What it really boils down to for me is DriveSnapshot and Rollback Rx, and which one I prefer. That being the case DS wins. It's perfect for me; I have my custom context menu entries, custom command lines, it's completely portable (slap it on a PE bootable flash and you're good), no installing, no 3rd party "lock(s)", and I can restore windows without having to boot into a pseudo. The above list doesn't hold true for any other product. Oh yeah and it under 350kb!! I'd use Rollback RX if it worked with DS; I still can't get the PE RAW restores to work right. So, I'll stick with either Shadow Defender or SafeShield, and, of course, DS. That is a combination I know works that I don't have to guess and hope it functions as I intend when I need it.

 

Nate, as a long-time DS user you'll get no arguement from me about its virtues, but I don't understand why you "can't get the PE RAW restores [of your RB system partition] to work right". Perhaps if you explained your backup procedure, step-by-step, I (or someone else) could spot the problem? It may also help if you tell us exactly what you wind-up with after restoring your RB system partition.

Aaron

 

@TheRollbackFrog,

Why all the fanfare and why is Rollback so important to you

I find a good imaging and backup plan outperforms Rollback! If your system is configured right. It does't take long to image backup. All in all, a image backup is highly reliable, fast and consistent. That goes for the restore too! There is no defragmentation issues either...

 

Rollback is VERY IMPORTANT to me... but NOT as a backup tool. I use Rollback primarily to support multiple system configurations, all of which are important to me. My main configuration consists of THREE system forks or paths, each with a separate purpose in life. The first is my production fork which accomplishes all my needed important stuff... documentation, video and audio work, anything needed to support myself and the others I assist.

The second is primarily a testing fork... I use it to test many applications and their effect on my system. And as others can tell you, there is no better UnINSTALLER on the planet than Rollback RX.

The third fork is completely in the wild... no AV, AS, FW, AM, anything to protect my system. It's purpose is to find the bad guys (mostly virii that have infected others) and, if not already known, try to discover their attack vector. I use this system fork to strictly chase bad guys.

Why don't I use a VM for these things, you ask (or maybe were just thinking )? Mainly 'cause I have found many virii that can recognize they exist in a VM, and as such, shut down. I think this behavior has been developed 'cause a lot of the honeypots that are/were being used by the Virii chasers were being run in VMs... virii always seem to adjust.

Those are the main reasons... real world system configurations and the best uninstaller on the planet (IMHO).

I too use a good imaging plan and backup... but not for all the same reasons you do. Mine is primarily for reconstruction of the worst failure mode one can experience... a completely failed hard disk. This has happened to me 3-times in 16-years and each one has been painful to deal with, but not anymore.

As far as outperforming Rollback for anything other than the disaster described above... almost any good ISR will outperform even the best and shortest incremental restoration by any imaging tool. If you can present to me any imager than can restore your system to any important point in time in less time than it takes to reBOOT your system with an additional 15-30 seconds, I would be happy to add it to my arsenal and probably put it to use in my production environment. I have not discovered such a beast yet.

If you've read any of my ramblings in these forums and at the HDS forums, my entire system configuration is very important to me (multiple forks of operation, etc.), that's why I needed a tool that can back up the entire system, including Rollback RX and its databases and snapshot info. Most any good imager can do this in a COLD imaging mode (using another OS-based environment other than the one populated by Rollback... LINUX, BartPE, WinPE, DOS, etc.), but my system needs to be up most of the time, that's why a HOT imaging solution (required by Rollback's modus operandi) was my goal for quite a while.

As far as defragmentation is concerned, as Aaron Here has described very well, it is not an issue when running Rollback, and I have never seen any effect on my system(s) when runnning Rollback (as long as you keep your snapshots defragged using Rollback's defragmentation).

That's the best way I think I can answer your question... my needs are probably fairly unique, and Rollback and IFW fits that bill very nicely at the moment.

Hope this helps...

 

TheRollbackFrog,

Nice post. You have clearly explained your circumstances.

I'm a little slower than 15-30 seconds with an IFW differential auto restore. It takes reboot time plus 150 seconds for my main WinXP.

We have different methods of doing much the same thing. I'm a multi-booter with about 20 different bootable partitions. Apart from the running OS, I can restore the other 19 OS while Windows is running and I'm using the computer. To boot into another OS I just run a batch file and the restart and boot happens.

 

Just want to say that RB is very important to me as well. I have been using it since 2006 and I'm still in awe over its remarkable under 5-second snapshots, 2-minute restores (rollbacks) and 3-minute file/folder recoveries!

Of course I don't consider it a substitute for regular image backups (which admittedly are vital), but no matter how you 'slice and dice it' (imho) image backup programs are simply not as convenient as RB for everyday use.

Finally (as I've stated many times before), I have never found disk fragmentation to be an issue, nor do I see how it can be (with RB's 'modus operandi').

Aaron

 

Hey guys,

First off, I'm definitely not at the pay level of most of the posters on here, so please take that into consideration.

I just purchased a license for Rollback Rx and am having second thoughts.

I have been playing around with the program and find it very convenient, but I still realize that I need to find a good imaging program as well.

After reading through this thread and doing some googling online, I have come to the conclusion that I probably made a mistake in purchasing Rollback Rx.

It would appear that using RB with an imaging program requires the user to jump through many hoops.

I am not inclined to jump that much.

I was thinking along these lines, instead of using RB, just use an imaging program and something along the lines of SD or Returnil and be done with it.

I realize that I would lose the convenience of rolling back to a snapshot, but I am still left with a clean slate with SD or Returnil.

Am I crazy or what

Thanks

Oops, forgot to mention that all of this info that I just posted is in regards to a Windows 7 64 bit system and not the info from my sig.

Sorry.

 

it depends on each user's workflow.
if your image is very big and takes a long time to restore then you might be better off with Rollback RX.

also, if you test an app that need a reboot to finish installing you would be better off with either RX or restoring an image after testing if you decide you don't want the app anymore.

different strokes for different folks.

 

Thanks moontan,

Bottom line though, an imaging app is a must, wouldn't you agree?

If you had to pick one app, wouldn't it be the imaging app?

Apparently using Rb and an imaging app isn't the easiest thing in the world to set up.

And again, at my pay level I need simple

Thanks

 

yes on both count.

i do have Rollback RX but i don't use it anymore because, in my case, it only takes me 4 minutes to restore an image.

 

Hi wideglide,

Yes, image-backup is your bottom line of defense against disaster, but since you've already shelled out the cash for RB I say install it and enjoy its pretty amazing benefits.

Contrary to what you've read, you really don't have to 'jump through hoops' to create an image-backup with an RB system. Just run your image-backup from within Windows, just as if RB wasn't there. You will wind-up capturing your current snapshot (the current state of your system), which is exactly what you would get if RB wasn't installed. The only difference is that if/when you restore that image you will find that RB is no longer installed, so you will have to re-install RB.

If you consider that inconvenience 'jumping through hoops', I would ask how often will you likely restore a backup image? Most likely, not very often, especially since you have RB and can rollback (or roll-forward) to any other snapshot within a minute or so! In the rare event that disaster strikes and you need to recover your backup image, I'm sure you won't mind having to re-install RB.

Aaron

 

Dear Aaron,

The above is what I failed to understand about Rollback Rx for a long, long time.

Many thanks and kind regards,

KOR!

 

Hi Aaron,

I like your way of thinking concerning my situation with RB.

You are making it sound as though it's easy to accomplish this feat. I like easy.

I still think from what I've read in this thread and online that a person would have to jump through a few hoops to get er done.

Actually, two extra mouse clicks is jumping through hoops for me

Seriously, from what I gather, only certain imaging apps will work with RB and only if you make registry tweaks and if the moon aligns with the stars and, well you get my drift.

Besides this thread, is there a tutorial or help section that explains the procedure for doing this on a step by step basis?

I really would like to keep RB, but an imaging app is my first concern.

I didn't realize there was a problem with RB and imaging software when I purchased RB. My fault for not researching more.

You have been very helpful in this thread and for that I thank you.

Thanks

 

wideglide, you are suffering from information overload (big time)! -- you wanted easy and I gave you easy.

Your comment (quoted above) alludes to The Rollback Frog's discovery re how to hot-image a system capturing all RB snapshots. His method requires the use of Image For Windows with Phylock (and a specific reg-entry configuration). While his method is revolutionary in the RB community, it might also be construed as having to 'jump through hoops' (at the very least, it's highly specialized). There is also a proven cold-imaging method (that's been around for a while) that can also capture all RB snapshots, but I believe discussing such methods will confuse you further.

So I say again... If you are content with making an image-backup of your current system state (i.e., RB's current snapshot) then my advice to you in post #196 is a simple and straight-forward way to achieve that (nothing is different from the 'usual way' of creating a backup image). Most any image-backup program can do this (I see you have Acronis True Image and it can do this job) as long as you create the backup from within Windows (you must not use the Acronis boot-disk to do this)!

You may have also read that some users prefer to uninstall RB before making a backup image of their current system state. That also works (obviously), but having to uninstall and reinstall RB everytime you want to create a backup image is (imho) a real drag. You wanted easy and I gave you easy.

Aaron

 

Aaron,

Thanks again for your help.

I can definitely live with the set up where only the current snap shot is restored with an image, so your advice is well received.

I guess I could handle reinstalling RB after an image restore. Hoops? What hoops.

As you said, how often do you really need to restore an image. Hardly ever in my case. Knock on wood!

I am considering installing the free version of Macrium Reflect as I have heard a lot of good things about it, and being free really helps.

If it works out I would definitely upgrade to the paid version.

Thanks again for your help. I'll try an post back after I test things out a little.

Thanks