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Absolutely. In that context RBRX is a load..

Now,
When I work with anyone that has RBRX as their exclusive means of protection I don't! I stop right there and backtrack to the beginning.

First we learn how to protect without RBRX.
This means we typically learn to identify personal user data.
Then we backup via filesync and imaging or similar.
Once properly protected THEN I give the ok to use RBRX, along with all benefits and pitfalls.

Sometimes this is a simple suggestion, other times it's an arduous hand-holding process. But you know what? IT WORKS!

 

This may be the case, but if the number one priority of this end user is to conserve their data, well then this could happen and hypothetically (and again, every computer is unique) it would be fine. So I can't account for all end users, but it should hold up just fine. I have a multi-hard drive set up (and have had similar set ups for close to a decade) and have never lost data.

Nowadays most of these things save to the cloud. If my Chrome or Firefox were to ever crash, it's all saved and I can just log in again. I suppose it depends on where you store the other data, and whether it's imperative you save it.

That's correct, but it's certainly recommended.

Ah, the marketing, I've had this discussion previously with goodman. I think it's easy to point at the marketing and call it a farce, but the truth is, majority of our users use the program everyday with no issues. These people face disaster on a regular basis. Most times too, if someone has a major critical error, we ask to see the log files. Reason is, we want to learn from it and adapt. If we can do that, we're happy. So when you say ANY disaster, there's some stipulations. What version are you using? What's the set up like? What other programs are installed? Do they conflict? Have you changed the settings?

There's an infinite number of possibilities, and no software can ever 100% account for everything. That said, when Jane or John who are simple IT Admin's with their companies need a solution, then yes, this will save them from almost every disaster.

 

I've had this set up for a decade on my personal PC for a decade and haven't had an issue. This is a lot of hypothetical here, and in my personal experience -- not something I've had to worry about. Especially in the age of the cloud!

 

Pete and Kurtis,

I'm not clear on what is your agreement or disagreement.

 

But that is exactly what your marketing does say.

,,,,,,,,,, Am waiting for you to provide links showing where HDS has made it clear to users that they need to do more than use Rx to protect their systems (I asked for this previously). That is they need to image,,,,keep system and data files on different drives,,,,if Rx blows up to contact HDS support before they touch their PC,,,,,etc.

Oh, and by the way, my name is Barry Goodman,,,,or if you prefer bgoodman4, not goodman. Thank you.

 

I respectfully completely disagree. While what you say is correct, it also means your disaster recovery plan is incomplete.

You CAN rebuild your C: drive.
You CAN re-purchase the software and OS if you don't have backups.
You CAN transfer your information to a machine that can access it.
You CAN replace the faulty computer.
You MIGHT NEVER be able to reconstruct your data sets.

It's all part of a disaster recovery plan. This recovery plan includes regular backups, and ALL the hardware necessary to create them and recover them and access them when the time comes.

I set up a client with a second standby laptop in her remote office. It is the same model with the same software - same application programs, same OS. I also instructed her to make simple file-copy backups as she works through lengthy projects - something like saving your work 2x. And to keep her data distinctly separate in a modular fashion.

Should anything ever bad happen to her working system it's a matter of an hour to retrieve the spare laptop and plug in the data set. Business as usual!

 

Totally and completely wrong.

You lose the ability you run your business on that specific computer/HDD. Yes. Absolutely.
But, being the intelligent business owner you are, you have a recovery plan that includes spare hardware at the ready. If you lose your C: drive you replace your C: drive. And this replacement drive/computer is ready to go. Copy over the new data. Or retrieve it from the cloud.

All you really lose is tiny amount of time compared to years of business records. And the material since your last backup. Which is being done on a regular schedule, right?

You can up the reliability factor with imaging by using two different imaging programs. And media made by two different manufacturers. And by using a round-robin scheme. And you will have tested the procedure (backup and recover) with your real information on your exact hardware - so that when crunch time comes it isn't crunch time at all. It's break time! Party time!

Any competent IT consultant will do that for you and when done give you the green light. Each scenario is different with different user tolerances and requirements. Each scenario may require more redundancies in one area and less in another.

Imaging is simple and trustworthy. I've been advising it along with manual file copy and file sync methods for years and years. What do you find complex about it? Why do you not trust it?

 

And how exactly your example is related with Rollback RX?
Data Recovery/Snapshot program = a program that when needed needs to recover your system in a fully functional state
Otherwise needs to stay out of the way and let you use/work/play whatever with your system.
But a Data Recovery/Snapshot program that during post or reboot trashes your system and takes away all possibility of recovery is crazy.
Failing to recover is one thing; completely destroying everything that is supposed to protect is total Insanity!

Their European customers pay 83.69€ to have their systems trashed! And instead of fixing the damn thing in 8 years their employees come here every 4-6 months to diminish the disasters that are reported.
And their latest trend, make someone post a disaster, without even first seeking help in their forums and then report back that the problem was solved with their great support in less than 24 hours!.e.g. RollBack has crushed!!!

Panagiotis

 

I should like to point out that not everybody has the cash to have a spare system at the ready, I paid close to $3000 for my system and there is no way I am going to have another system sitting idly in the corner in case something goes wrong with the one I am using. Also, why would I want to spend the time and/or money to rebuild my system? I can get it all by imaging both the system and data and if I need to I can get a new piece of hardware,,,or whatever,,, and be up and running in very little time and for the min cost. Besides, most times the problem is not hardware related, so the idea of having to have a 2nd PC sitting there so you can run your data on it the second the 1st one goes down is a bit excessive I think.

 

True. A few months ago the motherboard in my main computer failed. I restored an image of the main computer's OS to my "basic" test computer. Up and running in less than an hour. Aren't images great!

 

It demonstrates conventional methods offer superior data protection, reliability, and compatibility.That's all I'm trying to point out.

And I have objection with these statements from HDS website. They are not true.

1- "Reverse any system crash within seconds (even if Windows cannot start up)."
False. The problem words are, "any system crash". There are many issues that may develop within a system which can cause windows to not start up. I can think of hardware issues, head crashes, corrupt lookup tables in an SSD. Improper MBR and partition tables. Work done on the disk outside of RBRX kernel such as a user using Linux "boot disc" utilities or by MS changing Windows internals in a way that RBRX would be unaware of.

2- "Creates a complete system snapshot without having to restart the system."
This is also false, and in a more insidious manner. What is "a complete system snapshot"? The implication is that all your data is duplicated and put aside in a cordoned off portion of the hard drive. These snapshots are then ready to be called into action. "Complete" seems to be a problem word. Only tiny portions of the hard drive are snapshotted. And what is a snapshot? And what is it of?

If HDS intended "snapshot" to mean a map and list of sectors which are redirected then it is passable. But they don't say that. The context leads one to believe the entire contents is magically duplicated

Only a sector-by-sector imaging program can make a "complete snapshot" of your system. Sector-by-sector will record the user data, applications, os, where it is located, all the metafile structures, file layouts, un-used sectors, unallocated space.

http://www.horizondatasys.com/en/products_and_solutions.aspx?ProductId=1#Features

Otherwise RBRX functions substantially as claimed. Users simply need to be made aware of those points.

 

Not everyone can afford that. In that situation have lesser/slower hardware that can get you through the week while the heavy hitter is in the shop. If you can't do that. Then just suck up the downtime.

In the example I described the system was a more modest $1200'ish laptop. I proposed the idea that should theft or damage happen the customer could continue working that same afternoon. She agreed. I didn't make a commission on that. I just told her to order another identical system to have at the ready if she wanted.

You have to if you don't have an image from which to restore from. When I say rebuild your system I'm referring to all the settings and configurations and applications. That can take days upon days to get you back to where you were before. And of course replacing the failed component, you might have to order it.

Yep. Sounds like everything is in order.

Ohh not excessive at all. Ever work in a big company and put in a ticket? The IT department rushes out and swaps your box with a spare from stores? You're up and running in minutes. The faulty box is either repaired or disposed of. If your budget doesn't permit that luxury then don't operate that way.

Ever work in a remote location where spare parts and systems are not as convenient as the Tiger Direct store you can walk to?

 

I would not want to have $1200 sitting there just in case I had a hardware failure. I have been using PCs since the early 90s and have had probably 10 PCs since then,,,,,,I had 1 hard drive failure with a PC that was in use and 1 new PC that was delivered with a hardware problem that showed up quickly and was replaced by the mfg. So if I followed your suggestion thats 10 backup PCs (at $12,000) over a 25 year period. In that time there would have been 1 occasion where the backup would have come into play and then only for a few days.

And yes, I have images of the entire system, and I have never worked for a large company so no support tickets and I live in a large city so no shortage of parts. So yes, in many cases at least a tad excessive,,,,certainly in mine I would say.

We are def on the same page re Rx though.

 

I use imaging software too, for my C: and D: drives (OS and Data respectively) and while I've had to use the OS image a few times, I've never had to use my data image (knock on wood)

This thread is devolving into personal set ups and preferences. If you guys don't like using RollBack Rx, that's your opinion and that's your set up. That said, I have my set up, and it works perfectly for me. I've been using RollBack Rx, even before I was hired by the company, and it's a solid program. People are asking me to go in and change the marketing, well I'm going to tell you now, that's not going to happen.

When the majority of our customers have a solid setup, and are protected from a majority of issues, then yes I'm going to say that marketing is spot on. Saying that it's not because a handful of users are having issues is nonsense. Does McDonalds stop using "I'm loving it" if a few people don't? Does Subway stop using "Eat Fresh" if a few of their ingredients aren't 100% fresh all the time? Of course not. They address the issues at hand and move on, as we're doing.

 

It seems some members are obsessive about particular softwares. Obsessions are unhealthy and labouring a point is dull.

 

I've noticed that as well, it's the idea that everyone has a setup, and each is unique. I think if you have a setup that works for you, power to you. We at HDS have thousands of users everyday who are happy with the product, and so when a handful of people tell me they're not and that it's a bad product or whatever, I'm not really seeing it. I mean, if it was, I'd see a lot more people calling/chatting/emailing haha.

 

I did not really expect you to or be able to, you just are getting paid to hang around forums trying to polish up Rxs and HDSs reputation. You really are not doing a very good job of it though.

Nothing at HDS has changed contrary to your statements to that effect. And your marketing will change, this will happen when DC is released and HDS can say that there things about Rx that DC can protect against. The only reason they will do this is so that HDS can sell 2 programs instead of one. Of course no mention of Rx as flawed will be made, the marketing will say the only reason to use DC is so you can have images of your system including the snapshots if you need to do restore. No mention of why you may need to do a restore will be made if Rx is so great that it stands on its own as it supposedly always has. But hey, thats the HDS way.

Yet you are still trying to have it both ways, you say

but the marketing does not say that, the majority of issues is not what the marketing says, it says all conceivable issues not most of the conceivable issues or many of the conceivable issues. So its not spot on at all.

 

Majority of our end users are commercial and educational sectors. These people use SCCM, or whichever other tactic to manage issues. These people, probably don't need Drive Cloner Version 6. They have a solid setup, and there's no issues for them. So yes, we are selling two products. The reason why is because, on top of being a business that needs to pay its employees. We are considering the possibility in the future, but for now it's a paid companion product.

Again, mentions of RollBack Rx being 'flawed' when majority of the customers are happy. It's only the vocal majority here on Wilders and a few other communities. My job, was to primarily come in and address these issues. Which I've attempted to do to the best of my ability, but the accusations of the product being flawed are simply outragous. We have thousands of clients who use the product, and majority of people report positive things, not negative. When I started, I was serious about looking into these issues, and in many ways I still am, but I'm finding more and more, that a lot of these issues are one-offs, and not indicative of the product as a whole. Whatever your gripes are with it, it's not the product itself.

Again, majority of our customers have no issues. We're not going to change the marketing, if you have an issue, submit it through the Support Portal and we'll address it. Simple. When a large sect of our customers have no issues, we're not going to reword marketing based on a few minor complaints from a small sect of users.

 

In my example, if you had 12 systems, there'd still be only one spare PC laying around. Or two if that's what you wanted. Or maybe none, and just a box of essential parts like a spare HDD or something.

Backups take as many forms as there are users out there. And I promote what the user is comfortable with as long as the job gets done. What works for someone may be unsuitable for another. They can be as extravagant or as simple as desired. Or non-existent in most cases where people come asking me to undelete something from 5 years ago !!

Personally myself, some of my home systems are getting up in age, and if they were to fail I would replace them entirely. At my leisure time I'd then scavenge for parts or repair or re-purpose.

 

I guess I misunderstood, I thought you meant that the main system and the backup were to be the same in terms of hardware and software so that the data could be run without issue. Its not as bad from this point of view but some software may well need certain current/recent hardware to run properly. I had to upgrade my PC so that I could run a CAD program that I use. If I was to follow your suggestion I would have had to purchase 2 PCs and while the backup would not have had to be as high end it would def not have been an off the shelf PC from Best Buy.

I guess it boils down to what one is comfortable with. I backup and image daily, weekly, and also, in addition, image to a drive that is kept off site. Critical files are uploaded to a remote site nightly. I am comfortable with this. Sure its not 100% but close enough for me.

Just wondering if you recommend keeping the backup system off site? In the event of a fire, robbery, or some natural disaster if the backup system is on site it too will be gone.