Reflections on Build 3567 and MBR

Wait a minute . . . wait a minute . . .

I'm confused . . . (which is always the state I'm in anyway) . . .

OK . . . I see that many folks here just have two partitions, an OS partition and then a Data partition. And in that case, I can see just making an image of the OS partition alone and restoring it if your OS fails and not worrying about this MBR stuff, assuming you back up your data to a Flash Drive or whatever. (That's what I do - make backups of important data to my Flash Drive, which I do with my File Manager anyway - I have TI only for making a Recovery CD for my OS and my apps and utils <see the next paragraph>).

Now in my case I have NOT two, but four partitions. My C, which is for the OS only, a D partition for applications (Office 2003, WordPerfect, Lotus, etc.), an E partition for my utils (antivirus software, firewall software, spyware software, TI, etc.), and the F partition for all my data. So, my TI Recovery CD would be NOT ONLY for my OS, but also for my apps and utils, AND ALL THEIR SETTINGS.

Consequently, just an image of the OS partition wouldn't be enough for me - I want an image of the other two partitions (D and E) along with it.

Geezzz, now I'm getting myself confused all over again - at first I had thought through what I wanted to post, but now I'm forgetting.

OK . . . lemme try this as a question:

Given my partitioning as explained above, do I need to worry about how this MBR stuff might apply if I wanted to restore the image of my C, D, and E partitions??

Or can I just flat out not worry about this MBR stuff anyway. (I think that's what one post suggested, but I'm not sure).

 

You will need to make an image including your D and E. These partititions won't have the MBR recorded unless you image the complete drive under the same image name.

Your C: drive image will have the MBR recorded.

Colin

 

Hello Bobj,

You have four partitions while most others make do with two, one for data and the other for the OS and programs. There is a reason for this. As installed programs are intimately tied in with the OS via the registry and common files there is no real advantage in having them in separate partitions. Indeed if, for example, you had a problem with a particular program and you decided to roll the program file back in time you could be generating problems within the OS unless this was also rolled back.
There is no harm in continuing with these additional partitions provided that you treat your C,D and E partitions as one. This means each image and restore should be for all three partitions.

The MBR relates to a hard drive and not to partitions. It is normally located at the beginning of the first HDD confusingly known as drive 0. In XP it consists of three records. Ntldr,Ntdetect and the boot INI which tells the BIOS where to look for the OS.
When you make backups you will be imaging C,D and E partitions and will I presume restore all three should the need arise.
Now should you restore the MBR along with a restoration of C,D and E or not ?
Well it all depends on the circumstances that gave rise to the need for a restore. If the reason was an unbootable system or a boot sector virus that had not been detected or if a replacement drive had been installed these are some valid reasons to restore the MBR.

To keep things simple I always retore the MBR as a matter of routine. It does no harm to refresh a valid MBR with an up to date copy of itself. If the original MBR was missing or corrupt a restoration would definitely be needed.

Xpilot

 

Hey Xpilot and Colin,

First, thanks to you both for responding.

Now a question I have, based on what xpilot said and Colin implied, is in the next paragraph. And I don't mean to disagree with you xpilot, because you are probably much more technically experienced than I (and I'm sure you are too, Colin).

But doesn't the MBR also contain the Partition Table I'm not talking about the Partition Boot Record (PBR), which I don't think is in the MBR anyway, I'm talking about the PARTITION TABLE.

As I understand it (and remember, I'm an amateur compared to you guys, so don't hesitate to correct me and 'splain it to me), the MBR contains the Initial Program Loader (IPL) AND the Partition Table. The IPL is the three programs you referred to, xpilot: ntldr, ntdetect.com, and boot.ini.

Now if the MBR contains the Partition Table also, that leads to a second question I have, and the point of this post.

Wouldn't the Partition Table in my MBR list my FOUR partitions And if so, wouldn't that mean that I'd want to image ALL four partitions, not just my C, D and E?? Otherwise, wouldn't TI in restoring and overwriting my original MBR (listing FOUR partitions) with a Partition Table listing just three partitions, mess things up if I just imaged three partitions

But if the MBR is just a copy of my original, then I guess maybe it would be OK to include it?? However, my understanding is that TI overwrites the MBR with what it "thinks" is the correct partition table.

Geeezzz, I'm getting myself confused now. 'Splain it to me.

Oh . . . one more thing. And this is on a related note, because I'm getting so confused over this imaging stuff. And I posted this thought elsewhere, but it bears repeating here.

My thought that all I'd have to do was click on an OK button and voila I'd have a Recovery CD was apparently mistaken (naive of me, I guess . . . duhhhhh). I've read through a lot of the posts here, and it seems like there are a lot of minefields in the image and restore process. I think other posters have said this, but it seems like a non-technical person would have a hard time making and restoring an image (and I'm not all that technical myself!!).

 

Hi Bobj,

Yes the MBR contains partition table records.
If you want further reading on the subject Wikepedia has several articles on MBRs and Partition tables.

If I understand you correctly you want to know if you image and restore three of your four partitions would there be a booting problem?

The MBR will contain details of all four of your partitions. It will not matter if you do a restore of just three of them back to the same disk because all four partitions will still be present. This will apply whether you restore the MBR or not because ASFAIK TI will not modify the MBR in these circumstances.

If you restore to a replacement drive I presume you would include all four partitions as you would not want to discard your data. So a restoration of the MBR along with the rest would be called for.

Not withstanding all the above I would suggest that you actually test out your system by making actual restores to a spare hard drive. That way you will know for sure if all is well or be able to sort out your problems before disaster strikes.

Xpilot