Please help w/new graphics card & system build

(76) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Really quite surprisingly simple,just a matter of slotting bits and pieces into place.Just show who the boss is!
As regrettably the instructions books always omit exactly the info you need- a bit of trial and error may be needed,but even then,it usually works out OK.
The BIOS is by and large preset and until you get to the overclocking stage-is really easy and well documented.
Think you will enjoy the build.

 

(77) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Actually, I'm at no. 47 . I have an Athlon 64 3200+. Thanks for the link, it should help a lot in comparing the different types of processors.

I won't make any impulse buys, trust me . I'm just really tired of staring at a 15" D-sub LCD. I wouldn't get a monitor until after I build my system. I want my next pc purchase to be long term. I'll try to get the best and most I can with whatever money I have. The P180 would be a long term investment, but I'll only buy it at a sale price. Great cooling is a must with whatever case I end up buying.

Thanks for the encouragement . You and markymoo have eased my mind about the BIOS settings. Now, if the darn prices would drop some, I could start building.

 

(7 Re: Please help with new graphics card

Talking of prices dropping this high performance 4Gb memory is a bargain. Awesome Performance. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231145

 

(79) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Yea,but will they deliver to UK or Aus.

 

(80) Re: Please help with new graphics card

They only deliver in the US . That's a pretty good price for 4 gigs.

I have a question for you both. I was wanting to give my old computer away, but the person wants to get a laptop instead so I was thinking about taking my existing system and putting in a new case until I get the new MB, CPU and memory. Hairy Coo suggested doing this earlier.

I'm looking at the Antec P182 and it's on sale with a rebate so with shipping it would be a little under $120. The Antec 900 is also on sale with free shipping and it's $120 without the hassles of a rebate. This is a long term investment and will not effect my other purchases. I like the looks of the P182 better, but the 900 has 4 fans. What do you all think?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129025

 

(81) Re: Please help with new graphics card

P182 > 900

 

(82) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Innerpeace;

The PI82 is probably quieter as it has insulated sides and a front door and comes with 3 12" fans,but wouldnt make too much of this,as it has a lot of gaps in the insulation which must let through noise.
The 900 is more conventional, .
Probably with the large fans set at medium speed,there wouldnt be much in it as regards noise

Both should be excellent as regards cooling.

Should imagine the 900 would be easier to work with as regards installation.
The PSU is at the top on the 900,but bottom on the182.
The 182 is a bit cramped, installing the SATA cables and the PSU cabling is fiddly.
Also if you are going to use your existing PSU there is a chance that some of the main cables wont be long enough.
If its an Antec you should be OK.

I also like the lack of a front door on the 900
My P180 has a left hinged door,which has broken off the hinges twice and is a bit of a pain,as I have positioned the computer on the right and also its not so easy to access the buttons or the DVD drive etc.

The 182 probably looks more attractive and in practice may be marginally quieter and cooler than the 900-

BUT all things considered in your case probably the 900 may be preferable.

Looking forward to your new build

edit; notice you prefer the looks of the 182,which is very stylish. If you dont mind getting another 12" fan for the inside (not essential) and dont mind the installation of some cabling being probabaly more fiddly-then BUY IT-you will be looking at it for a long time!!

 

(83) Re: Please help with new graphics card

I have the Antec 900 case and i love it.

 

(84) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Thanks Lucas and Hairy Coo.

I think the hinge is on the left side of the front panel of the P182. If the hinge is plastic, that would be bad. My computer also sits on the right. As far as wiring, I do have an Antec Earthwatts 380 watt PSU. The cables are not modular though.

The P182 is the Gun Metal Stainless steel which I love and from a little more reading, I guess it's heavy too. It also has room for an optional 120mm front fan and a 120mm middle fan for the GPU. Like you said, the wiring can be a pain. Thanks for the details and first hand experience Hairy Coo, that's what I'm looking for .

The 900 probably can run things cooler by default but it looks like it might suck in a lot of dust. I'm getting close to 40 in age so the lights aren't important to me but I do like the idea of a window for visual inspection of the CPU fan. It isn't as tall as the P182 either. Actually, the PSU is mounted at the bottom, but without the whole isolated lower chamber configuration like the P182. My PSU gets warm, so it might not work well in this case. You can also mount another fan in the windowed vent area. The audio jacks are on top and I use my headphones often and I'm a little worried about stress on the connection.

Overall, I'm leaning toward the P182 as one day this case may end up as a home business machine. It's also the more expensive of the 2. It even has ports for external water cooling if I ever go that route which I doubt. The 900 would keep the HDD's cooler with it's 2 front fans. Ok, I'm done thinking aloud. I have 10 days to think about it before the sale on one of them ends.

Cheers,
innerpeace

Edit: After going here http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=81820 and viewing the video demo and the demo animation. I think I'm sold on the P182.

 

(85) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Innerpeace,
The hinged door,which is the same on the 180 and 182, relies on plastic posts,which broke on mine-but its easy just to Bostik glue the posts-as good as new.
Actually I received a replacement door unit without any problems from Antec under warranty, the first time
The door can be closed when running, to keep out wild deer,black bears etc

With the bottom mounted PSU-there is a drive cage in front of it with a 12" fan to cool the drives and the PSU-quite adequate.
My drive temps are 42 and 43c.
If you can get SATA cables with 90degree angled plugs to fit into the drives ,it will make fitting easier.

Generally,installation isnt difficult,you just have to have nimble,doublejointed fingers.

Above this bottom cage is another drive cage,which can be used instead of the bottom one for fitting of HDDs(mine are in the bottom).
This cage allows the fitting of a 12" fan to mount on the inside of the computer on the cage,which is good additional cooling and points near to the Video card.I have this fan fitted.
The 182 has audio jacks at the door cutout and has adjustable fan controls,I think at the back.
For business use certainly the 182 looks more professional-you would get my business immediately

EDIT: dont know why the manufacturers persist in fitting left hand hinged doors-as most people are right handed,they would tend to park the computer also on the right,which logically needs a RH hinged door!!

bestest hairy

 

(86) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Thanks for your reply and clarification Hairy Coo. I also edited my first post with a little more info on the P182 for everyone's enjoyment. It's also good to hear that it will keep out the critters . I admit, you made me laugh.

I'm taking note of the 90 degree SATA cables because all my future drives will be SATA. That's not counting my ext.

Ahhh crap, I have neither. My fingers are small though and I could sprinkle in a little patience. Scratch that, I don't have patience either .

More great info! I bet it would keep the GPU chilly.

The headphone jack is important to me. I also like the adjustable fan speeds and I am hoping that low would work, but that's not a big deal as my heat/air and refrigerator are loud in this little apartment. I agree about the hinge side, don't most desks have the computer sitting on the right side? weird...

Regards,
innerpeace

 

(87) Re: Please help with new graphics card

The Antec 182 i'm sure will be more than you need. The 900 is a newer design and better cooling but alot owners say you have to get cables so neatly managed to maintain better cooling. The Antec wins on style and looks and its already a winner for cooling and silence. Another good case to consider for less money is the Coolermaster 690. http://www.coolermaster.com/products/product.php?language=en&act=detail&tbcate=17&id=2908 can fit 7 120mm fans. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137 only $80

Did someone say fan?
http://www.aplus-case.de/pages/products/TwinEngine/TwinEngine.html

 

(8 Re: Please help with new graphics card

Lian Li is another option in quality cases/chassis. Not as quiet as the P182, but light (pure aluminium) and beautiful (industrial design)

 

(89) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Lian Li and Silverstone cases are great quality but also very expensive if you want a good one with the features of the Antec. They generally cost alot more than Antec cases, which would be outside the budget.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/enclosure.php?area=usa

 

(90) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Dieselman Thanks, sorry I missed your post earlier. Does the 900 suck in a lot of dust?

markymoo I must have missed the Coolermaster 690 when I was searching. It looks decent, and can hold a boat load of fans, but for $20 more bucks, it's hard not to get the P182. For fun, I had a look at the SilverStones, they are way too expensive.

Lucas I was seriously considering the Lian Li's. Some people have reported noise like you said, vibrations and cheap fans. I was only looking at models I could afford though. I do like the looks of them.

 

(91) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Sorry for the double post, but I thought I would let everyone know that the P182 had free shipping today so I just ordered it . It will be $100 after rebates and should be here in the middle of the week. Let's hope there are no dents.

I can't wait until cpu prices start falling and hopefully I can find a good deal on a good MB. What is the difference in a dual cpu and dual core? I'm also considering a virtual machine in the future so I will need a cpu and I guess an OS to accomplish this. Is XP pro 64 bit? Would I even need 64 bit in the near future 2-4 years?

 

(92) Re: Please help with new graphics card

I don't worry about sucking in dust. I have 2 cats. Cant do anything about that but I have fan filters on my intake fans.

 

(93) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Well done on your purchase. Here in Uk it would cost $170 which is still not a bad price when you see other cases around costing far more.

Dual core now is 2 processors in one chip fitted into a 1 socket motherboard and dual cpu is 2 seperate cpus which can be dual or quad cores fitted into a motherboard that will take 2 seperate processors commonly known as Skulltrial, which is an advancement of server xeon technology of old which is able to run it faster still. It comes at a huge price as you could fit 2 quad cores on one motherboard meaning 8 cores. The memory for it is expensive.

For your purposes into the future a dual core will suffice as little applications take advantage of 4 cores. The best advice is save as much money as you can until April wait for those prices to drop and then buy an Intel 8000 series cpu (8200 8300 8400 8500) the best you can afford and by then the x48 motherboards will be out and the P35 x38 intel chipset motherboards will of come down in price. You be able to pick up a high spec P35 motherboard at a bargain price that will work with your cpu. There will be little benefit buying the latest motherboard unless you want SLI/Crossfire or 10% more speed. In fact this is what i will be doing waiting for a top board like the Abit IP35 Pro http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3142 or Foxconn Mars http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3107 to come down and picking up a cheap Intel 6600 quad core or getting the new Intel Q9450 in March which is like 10 days away. I need quad but a 8000 series cpu will just be as good and fast for the majority of software. I think Nehalem early next year will cost a fortune.

In 1980 we had 8bit and Amd were first to bring out 64bit in 2003 now Intel do it. If you buy a cpu today it be 64bit. It means there 64 registers in the chip basically means the data gets handled in bigger chunks for processing meaning faster. Yes you want a x64 chip. XP comes in x32 or x64 versions. XP didn't get so popular due to lack of drivers before Vista and thought to be a dead duck but now due to the disappointment of Vista and availability of drivers its getting a revivial. If you use x64 XP it be faster but not all software takes advantage of it. Alot software you can get working. Games run ok on x64. You see 32bit referred to as x86.

 

(94) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Well done,Innerpeace
Wouldnt worry about denting-the cardboard case is built like a shipping container.

If you can be patient for a month or so,you could probably buy a cheaper CPU,as markymoo pointed out,which would be ideal.
But if you want to buy all the hardware now,Newegg have,for example, the dual core E6550 for $170 and the GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L mobo for $89-a good combination.
The E6550 is rated at approx 2.4ghz but will overclock to around 3.4GHz with a good chip cooler.
It seems that Newegg have deals all the time,so a package like this would suit you.
I prefer Gigabyte or Asus mobos.
As regards the virtual machine,an excellent freebie is VirtualBox,which runs perfectly on XP2 32bit

 

(95) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Thanks everyone .

markymoo, Thanks for the explanation. It clears up some of the mystery about the different chips. I've been looking at the benchmark link you posted and now it's making more sense to me. I'll try and keep an eye on the models you mentioned and learn more about them.

Hairy Coo, Your the reason I bought the P182. You had me hooked the moment you mentioned it .

That is a nice combo and I think that's one of the chips I have been looking at. I am going to wait and see what I can get for the least money. I think one of the quads is $254 and if it drops to $200, I might seriously consider getting it. That MB is rated very high at NewEgg.

The price for XP Pro 64 and 32bit are the same. Is it ok getting the OEM license or would that be a bad decision. I'm not sure that I would by my software from them and will shop around for an OS license. When will they quit selling XP? Would it be cheaper to see if a local computer repair shop sells XP OEM licenses? Heck, I made my own XP Home disks from my OEM install, but I would need a license so Bill can eat.

 

(96) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Innerpeace,
Dont think the quad core make any sense at all for you-they are only advantageous in specialized applications such as some graphics, which can utilize all 4 cores-you would be better off getting a good dual core chip.
The OEM licence is fine,doesnt have the fancy retail wrapping and only good for an install on one machine,but otherwise exactly the same. Cant you get it from Newegg-generally needs a purchase of hardware to qualify!
Probably XP 32 would be better as regards general compatibility.
XP will be maintained by Microsoft for a long time yet,and service pack 3 is about to be announced,so it certainly isnt obsolete.
You also will need memory,the one markymoo recommended should serve well.
That 182 price was a bargain!!

 

(97) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Thanks. When I was a child, we played a board game called Bargain Hunter. I must have been paying attention .

Your probably right about the quad cores. I really wonder how many apps will be using 2 or 4 cores and/or 64 bit technology in 2-3 years. This build will probably be at least a 3 year investment for me.

Yes, NewEgg has OS's, but I thought I may be able to get it cheaper elsewhere. It's $140 for either a 32 or 64 bit XP Pro OEM. They also have XP home OEM for $90. Here is what the disclaimer says for OEM XP home.

My recent hard drive purchase may be a problem. I'll need to look into this. The OS will be the last thing I buy.

 

(9 Re: Please help with new graphics card

innerpeace,
You're building a solid foundation for your new rig
If I have time, I'll put a thread called "Towards smart, painless and happy computing"

 

(99) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Innerpeace
For a start get XP Pro-usually if you twist arms hard enough with a smaller supplier,any reasonable hardware purchase may qualify.
In my opinion,unless you are a games fanatic(some games are being written just for quad core) or a professional needing a quad core for an as yet unwritten program,you will not get any value out of it-Dont aim too high for no reason!!

Whats wrong with your hard drive-just get 2-SATA drives,the biggest which give value,this will ensure best performance as the data that counts will be near the edge for reading/writing.
EDIT If you are talking about your external eSATA seagate-there wont be any problems irrespecitve of the mobo you buy,obviously as long as it supports sata-which they probably all do, now.
If possible get another two internals.

 

(100) Re: Please help with new graphics card

Thank Lucas. If you write a thread, I would certainly read it .

Ok, it would be fun to run 3 VM's though. Like I would ever do that LOL.

Yes, I was talking about the new 250GB ext. SATA drive I bought. I thought that it might have been to long ago to qualify. I think I got it in Dec. My internal HDD is an IDE 100GB. I was thinking about getting another 160GB or less SATA drive for the new build because they were around $42 because my IDE has been occasionally clicking and chirping for several months now. I can't get Seatools (graphical) to recognize my mouse's and the keyboard won't work either. I also have the DOS version, but I'm not familiar with what to do in the DOS version.

For the record, my new burner is IDE so it would probably occupy the single IDE input on the new MB. I could temporary use my new 250GB ext. SATA HDD for a while, but my backups would have to be on it or I could temp. use the questionable IDE drive in my ext. enclosure for backups. I hope that makes sense. I'm also getting ahead of myself here as my main focus is on the next month or so.