Partitioning?

As I already said in my first post, I'm NEW to partitioning and I'm also NEW to winXPproSP2, but I'm familiar with win2000proSP4.
I never used partitions, because I always used one harddisk "C:" without partitions.
I will have a new computer very soon with at least two harddisks, maybe three and I have to start from SCRATCH.

1. Can I partition any harddisk, while I'm installing winXPproSP2 without needing any partition software, like Acronis Disk Directory Suite ?

2. If I use a partition software like Acronis Disk Director Suite, do I have to install winXPproSP2 first and then do the partitioning OR can I partition my harddisks first with Acronis Disk Director Suite and then install winXPproSP2 in one of these partitions ?

You don't have to explain it in full detail, just the big lines and above all in which order things need to be done.

I will buy a partition software anyway, but I have to start somewhere and I have never done this before, so it will look weird in the beginning, when I will do this the very first time.

I'm planning to buy Acronis Disk Director Suite for partitioning and Acronis True Image for backup.
I know there are alot of other softwares to do this, but I think Acronis will be good enough to do both jobs, otherwise Wilders wouldn't recommend Acronis and most probably I wouldn't even understand the pros and cons of all these similar softwares, because I don't have any experience.
So I will download and buy Acronis via their website, because Belgium doesn't have the LATEST version of Acronis software yet and I need to update this software on a regular base. America is always quicker than Europe.
As far as I know Belgium doesn't even know about ShadowUser.

Many thanks in advance !!!

 

For 1. I know for certain if you install XP in dos mode it lets you create and size partitions as this was my first experience with partitions also.

2. The Windows partition software i use and highly recommend is symentecs partition magic 8.05. But for this you just open it up from inside windows and just choose to repartition the drives empty space. And the size you want to split it to. Choose the file format (i.e Fat or NTFS) and it does it all for you.

One piece of strong advice that i was repeatedly told when venturing into partitions game is make sure just before you choose to partition a hard drive that you have fully defragmented it immediately beforehand. This is what i was repeatedly told and commen sence would see why.

Hope this helps

 

Hello,
You don't need any partitioning software, you can do it prior to the installation of the XP. What more, it IS recommended that you create partitions at this stage.
Mrk

 

Anthony1uk,

Concerning my second question, I have to work in this order :

For harddisk-1
1. Install winXPproSP2 on harddisk-1, most probably called "C:"
2. Install PartitionMagic v8.05 on "C:"
3. Defragment "C:" with Windows Disk Defragmenter.
4. Create a new partition "D:" on my harddisk-1, because I have already partition "C:"

The result will be :
"C:" = winXPproSP2 + PartitionMagic
"D:" = empty.

For harddisk-2 :
1. Defragment this harddisk with Windows Disk Defragmenter.
2. Create two partitions (size + NTFS) with PartitionMagic.

The result will be :
"E:" = empty
"F:" = empty

For harddisk-3 :
1. Defragment this harddisk with Windows Disk Defragmenter.
2. Create two partitions (size + NTFS) with PartitionMagic.

The result will be :
"G:" = empty
"H:" = empty


Is that the right way and order to do it ?

I also have two BenQ CD/DVD drives (DW1640 and DW1625)
Are they called "I:" and "J:" after doing this ?

 

For the last question first, Windows will assign new names between A and Z for all created or new drives. I assume the Benq drives will already be assigned a letter when installing windows so the Hard drives you create through partitioning will come after these DVD drives, i.e K and L and so forth. But if you go into drive manager in the control panal you can reassgn each drive to any letter you wish afterwards.

For the partitioning side. Yes that is what i was told to do, and have done with no problems. But if your two slave drives are completely empty before partitioning then (and i am not 100% sure of this though) but if they are empty then defragmentation should not be neccissary as there is nothing to defragment.

Hope this helps
Anthony

 

Well harddisk-2 and harddisk-3 will be empty normally, because these are NEW harddisks, but I will check it anyway.
Nevertheless the defragmentation will be usefull in the future, when I reorganize my harddisks.
Concerning the drive-letters, I will see what happen, it isn't that important.
Thanks for all the tips, I know at least now how to START all this from scratch and that's what I needed to know.
All I need is TIME to get used to partitions and working with more than one harddisk. I will have at least more space on my new computer for experiments.

Thanks man !!!

 

Hi,
Erik, you don't need to install anything.
Put your xp cd in the drive and when you start the installation create these partitions. Much better and more politically correct. It is better to partition dead drives than tamper with a system that has a living running OS on it.
Once in Windows, you can format all the non-system drives.
Letters are assigned automatically.
For instance, I have mine C-M ...
Mrk

 

I'd remove all the other drives and play around with one drive until you get a feel of partitioning and imaging. Worst case, you can always format the hard drive and start over again.

DO NOT pay for a partitioning and imaging software until you've had the opportunity to test the software on your system. Make sure that you can image AND restore individual partition. Avoid software that lock out certain feature during the trial period.

I believe BootitNG gives you the most performance for the $.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootitng.html

http://members.shaw.ca/bootitng/

 

Hi MimiJo -

It sounds like you are ready to do it! It sounds like you understand the concepts correctly...only, viewing the separation as 'protecting' you data, I think, while partly true, on the whole is not true. Basically, if windows crashes, your data remains. This is not a substitue for backing up your data. Whether your data is on the same physical drive or a second physical drive, the question remains: When whichever drive fails do you have a backup?

That said, it is very efficient and convenient to separate data into partitions. It stands to reason window will run faster. One thing I wanted to say was...Do it! No one mentioned it, and maybe because it's obvious; you don't need to re-install windows to create a new partion. you just need room on the drive. I use partition magic so I'm not too familiar with the tools built into windows. It would probably be a good idea to do a chkdsk and a defragment first.

Thanks ErikAlpert for a view of an interesting concept. I 100% agree that scanning the computer solutions is sort of a bandaid approach. I like your idea, but it seems to involve too much effort for my taste. It sounds like you want speed with two raptors. I can relate. I do want to encourage your succes, and you probably are far more knowledgeable than me, however for other minimalists: A router with a "hardware firewall" is a great protection with no taxing of system resources.

I wasn't going to mention my ultimate solution, but Eriks example has give me strength. I hesitate to call it a revolutionary concept, but I have never heard anyone else say it. When I get my next generation computer, I plan to keep it isolated from the internet, and from other users. I will use this one for that. I won't even have the firewall! The new computer will be:

HandsOff!

 

@Mrkvonic,
Thanks for confirming, that I can partition my harddisks during the installation of winXPproSP2.
That's a clear answer to my first question.

@nod32.9,
Thanks for mentioning BootitNG.
Don't you worry I don't buy software that quickly and I always try the trial version first.
Upto know I bought only 2 softwares win2000pro and MS Office 2000 Pro and when I buy my new computer, I have to buy winXPproSP2 of course.
Thanks for the warning and advice. It's always good to repeat these remarks over and over again, so that nobody forgets them.

@Handsoff,
I'm not very knowledgeable as you might think and I'm certainly not a security expert.
Most members know alot more about computers and security, than poor me.
But I'm an analyst and I'm used to look at problems from different angles in order to find other solutions.
Unfortunately my job has NOTHING to do with security and that makes me a newbie in security.
About one thing I'm convinced : definition/heuristic-based scanners are NOT the right solution to fight against malware.
If you put all these scanners aside, there isn't much left for less-knowledgeable users, except virtual-environment-based softwares, like ShadowUser (SU) and several others.
The only problem with SU is to keep the GOOD changes on your harddisk and that problem needs to be solved.
That's why I'm glad that other members are also using SU.
The more users, the more practical experience, the more solutions to keep the good changes, the more proof you have how good or bad SU is.
Personally, I find that more interesting than a discussion about the differences between NOD32 and KAV.

 

I'm tempted to say you'll see the advantages once you start using this.
There are lots of advantages that you might concider incidental, but they can add up to a lot simpler maintanence. Take something like defragmenting. The need is greatest on the system drive. If you have a partition, say with mp3's in it, there may be little or no need to ever defragment it. Take the issue of backing up. Let's say your system drive and applications are on a 6 GB partition. All your docs and ebooks on a 15 GB partion. All your photos on a 20 GB partition, and all your MP3's on a 50 GB partions. It's time to back up your computer. you haven't added any Photo's or MP3's, you don't have to back those up. Or maybe the only thing you need to back up is your documents. That is a bigger advantage. Why? Because backing up the system drive is a lot slower than any of the others. Even though it is the smallest it also has tons of very small files and for whatever reason building a snapshot takes a long time. If I back up 500 MB's added to the mp3's it will litereally be done in a few seconds. If I back up 10 MB's of changes on the system drive it will probably take at least a couple minutes to build the snapshot. Anyway...you'll see. There are many advantages.

JV16 is a registry tool that has various features. one of them (i've never used it yet) is to save the registry data, so that you can compare at key times like after a program install to see what has changed. I wonder if that kind of information could help you decide which programs change during a windows session. I think you normally set it to watch only certain areas, in order make it efficient, but it gives you options. Just thought I'd throw that in...possibly it does not apply.


- HandsOff!

 

Perhaps the speed issue is related to the imaging software running in Windows. Remember that the imaging software must lock the OS (usually found in the Primary Active C partition) before it can image the data.

Imaging software that run OUTSIDE of windows DO NOT have to wait to achieve this "LOCK". Therefore, the imaging speed should remain constant, assuming the partition is not heavily fragmented. For example, the average speed of imaging of Bootit NG is around 1400MB/min (AMD 3000 overclocked to 3700 speed with Seagate 160GB HDD). Image restoration is faster...2200MB/min.

A modern system should be able to restore the image file at 1800MB/min.

 

Hi-

Well, I imagine there are several factors at work. The system partition is almost guaranteed to be more fragmented, there are many very small files, and system files. Since the software I use displays the data transfer rates as the program is working I can say for sure that the rate is much lower. But appart from that, at least with the product I use, Dantz Retrospect, has a copying step, a snapshot building step, and a verification step. All three steps take significantly longer on the system partion.

Whatever the reason, for the discrepancy, performing a back up on data files on non-system partitions is so fast that I do the back ups more often than I would otherwise. Even as I write this, I performed a backup of 29.8 GB worth of files, with 241 MB having to be backed up. The entire process took less than a minute. Can't complain about that.

HandsOff

 

Incremental backup is good, but the best solutiion is still to backup the ENTIRE partition. If something breaks with one of the incremental, then you may have a bunch of bad image files downstream that you cannot use.

Again, it is very rare for software to go BAD. Most of the problems are related to the primary OS.

 

Well, I cannot say too much because I have not tried many alternatives. Dantz software is pretty thorough, I think. Not only do they do a comparison of all the files copied to validate the back up, but they give you the option to "recycle" the back-up. Recycling does a complete backup, tossing the incremental backup pieces.

I do recycles every so often, but am most concerned, you guessed it, with the system drive. Data partitions, say, one with your documents files, are well suited for incremental backups. If I have a document, "A", and do a backup. I make some changes and do an incremental backup. Then still more changes and another incremental backup. Then on day four I open up the document "A" and realize I deleted a hundred pages by mistake...3 days ago! The latest incremental backup would also have the pages deleted. However, all three "A"'s are still accessible. Recall that incremental backups do not erase old versions, they add changes. By specifying the date, and doing a file restoration you can still retrieve the missing hundred pages! I like that! Especially since I do not use the recycle bin.

Again, I only know about the software I use, Dantz. It may not be so with every backup software.


- HandsOff

 

It seems that some users use partition "C:" to fool hackers, because hackers know that most users install everything on "C:", so "C:" is the main target for hackers.

So these users don't use "C:" at all for their work, they use another partition.
For instance I could install win2000proSP4 on "C:", which I wouldn't use anymore and I could install winXPproSP2 on "D:" for all my serious work.

Is it really worth to waste space on this ?

 

I didn't know people did that!

I have a C: partition, but I use is for miscelanious things. Theoretically some trojans use default directory and file names and cannot work on windows installed on another partition. In real life I don't know if it helps. I figured it couldn't hurt, but, in fact it does cause confusion. Installers, and uninstallers sometimes make mistakes. For the most part it works okay, but I may consider installing an uninstaller. How weird does that sound?

-HandsOff

 

Theoretically, this is right.

You would have to use some tools such as PQBoot (included in PowerQuest Partition Magic) or Acronis's OS Selector to instruct your system that, next time it'll reboot, it will have to do so from the other OS.

Let's say you have XP on c:, and 2k on the next partition. For one thing, these two partitions would have to be primary partitions, because homing OS's, but that's not a problem. Next thing, it will have to consider XP as primary and active, while at the same time considering 2k as primary and hidden, no problem either. Finally, when working on one or the other OS, it may show some weird display, for example on your desktop. That's because the running OS "sees" some common files or file-name on another partition at the same time.

So, theoratically, this is all possible without too much of a fuss, but simpler would be to use two completely different OS's, for example Linux and Windows.

Don't forget, also, that the active partition (containing the running OS) automatically becomes c:, even if your intend has been to call it d:. If you switch, then the active partition again becomes c:

So you see, while certainly an interesting idea, running two windows on the same hdd can quickly become quiet difficult to manage effectively.

It's not bound to simplify things, to say the least.

What would be a good idea is to use one pc for internet connections and another one (even an old outdated one) for your serious work. Transfer from one to the other would be done via usb keys or floppies, and preferably only from the secure old one to the new connected one. A good av scan would do the trick as far as security is concerned.

But this solution is not really simple too.

 

Also, I doubt hackers would be dumb enough to compile code that would attack "c:".

Rather, and most probably, they look for active drives, directories and or specific files and folders, wherever these may be situated or called. There's no way I can be sure about that, of course.

Maybe files on a hidden partition would be hard to detect, but I guess this could be done in some way or the other.

So, IMHO, if you look for security, a second hard drive (usb) for backup (imaging) purposes would be a good idea. For example, you use c: (hdd 1) You image your c drive onto d:[hdd 1], which is your backup partition. Then you simply copy your images from d to your second hdd.

If something should ever happen to your first hdd (containing your c and d drives), in a sense you wouldn't care (even if it got stolen) because you could always recover your images and redeploy them in a heartbeat on any other drive using, say, Powerquest Recovery Environment (bootable Drive Image 7, or DI 2002 rescue floppies) or Acronis's bootable cd.

Hope this help in some way.

Cheers

 

I didn't mean to write" "
It's just that I missed the space bar one time

Cheers

 

BartFan,
Thanks for the info. I'm not going to use "C:" to fool hackers, I was just wondering what other members thought about this.
It would be foolish to waste space on my harddisk for the bad guys only.

I'm a total newbie in partitioning and once I have my new computer, I will try to partition my two harddisks using winXPpro during the installation.
ShadowUser forced me to learn about partitions, because SU recommends it, but I don't regret it, because partitioning seems to have several other advantages.
One thing I noticed : partitioning is a personal thing and each user seems to have his own reasons for partitioning and how to do it in practice. Some users even dedicate a partition to the SWAP file (pagefile.sys in winXP)
I guess I have to find my own way.

 

Whether you use a DeepFreeze or Shadow solution, the partitioning makes perfect sense. I keep all application files including my email store, downloads, My Documents, everything on a separate partition with the OS and programs on another. I keep a good clean image of my C: drive and if something goes wrong I just put my good image back on C: and I'm back in business. Takes me about 7 minutes. My data is never touched. I also encrypt that data partition. The encryption is just an extra thing I do that makes me comfortable when I'm away from the computer. If the computer boots up without my using Truecrypt to open my partition, nobody can do anything but see programs, no data to be found.

 

A more elegant solution to the multi-boot problem is to create up to four primary C partitions. You can install windows in EACH primary partition. Only one C partition will be visible when you boot into windows. The remaining C partitions will be hidden from view. Each C partition can share data/programs in the other extended logical partitions (D, E, F, etc).

The boot loader will allow you to select which partition to boot.

 

If you work with more than one harddisks, let's say two : "C:" and "D:"
If I don't want to use "C:" for awhile and only "D:", how does the computer know from which harddisk it has to boot ? I guess I have to tell my computer to boot from "D:" and not from "C:", but I don't know where.
(Once I start partitioning both harddisks, I will have even more drive letters.)

I'm asking this because I always had only one harddisk "C:" and that was simple
I couldn't find the right website with an approperiate answer/instructions how to do this.
I'm getting tired of all these translations in Dutch and not finding any answer.
Thanks in advance for helping me out with this small problem.