New motherboard with UEFI and installing/imaging Win 7.

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Kirk Reynolds, Jul 13, 2013.

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  1. login123

    login123 Registered Member

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    That alone is enough to obviate any virtues claimed for UEFI, imho. Amounts to a lot of cash for some.

    I recently bought a very good HP system, only to find out that it is enormously difficult to make it dual boot anything, even xp. HP does not even make xp drivers for it. No kidding. Even though at the time of this writing xp is still supported by microsoft. If I had known that, I would never have bought it.

    As referenced above...will use xp until it is absalootley unuseable. :D

    And indeed, from now on I think I'll just build'em, not buy'em.
    Agree with Aladdin, excellent learning thread.
     
  2. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    One of the main reasons for UEFI introduction was for booting from HDs larger than 2 TB. But SSDs have become popular booting drives and it will be a long time before we are using SSDs larger than 2 TB. For many of us who multi-boot several OS, UEFI doesn't have the advantages of a MBR system.
     
  3. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Secure Boot doesn't work with Win7. Win7 won't boot if Secure Boot is enabled.
     
  4. oliverjia

    oliverjia Registered Member

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    I have managed to dual boot Windows 8.1 x64 and Ubuntu 13.10 x64 on a UEFI system with Secure boot on. A grub boot menu was generated automatically after installed Ubuntu on a 2nd disk. Ubuntu was able to share the EFI partition with Windows. I did experience one time when boot menu disappeared and had to go through the process of boot-repairing using ubuntu live cd one time, but after that the grub boot menu works great.

     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  5. oliverjia

    oliverjia Registered Member

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    Ubuntu versions below 13.10 do not support UEFI secure boot. So in order for dual boot of Windows/Linux to work properly, 64 bit versions of Ubuntu 13.10 and windows 8/8.1 are required. Lower versions won't work.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  6. Robin A.

    Robin A. Registered Member

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    UEFI is a 64 bit environment. The transition to UEFI is part of the transition from 32 bit to 64 bit. The 2TB limit on disk size in MBR systems arises from the fact that MBR is a 32-bit scheme that can only address 2^32 sectors. In UEFI this limit is "automatically" extended. But I think this is a by-product and not a main desing point.

    More significant is that the GPT partition scheme extends the number of primary partitions from 4 to 128.
     
  7. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    There is certainly confusion and misinformation with UEFI. For example, my wife's computer has 32-bit Win8 UEFI. Not 64-bit. But that's how it came from Asus. I don't think you can install a 32-bit OS easily at home in a UEFI system. In addition, "Every GPT disk must contain an MSR". Her disk doesn't have one.

    A MBR disk has a 2 TB disk limitation. Not a 2 TB partition limitation. So you can't have a MBR disk with four 1 TB partitions. It doesn't matter if your OS is 32-bit or 64-bit, the boot disk in a MBR system is limited to 2 TB. You can have a 4 TB data GPT disk in a MBR system.

    A GPT disk can have 128 primary partitions. A MBR disk can have 4 primary partitions in the partition table but can have another 200 primary partitions in the extended MBR and you can swap these partitions into the LBA-0 partition table at will. So a MBR disk can have more primary partitions than a GPT disk.

    Once we get a good third party boot manager I'll switch to UEFI. But I'm not in a hurry to switch.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  8. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    Well, with UEFI basically heading into the future, and currently supporting SECURE BOOT on the more modern OSes, my question to the group is...

    How important to you is SECURE BOOT in eliminating those RootKits and other baddies who jump all over your BOOT blocks and attack your systems? Do you think those same purveyors of mayem will just as easily find a way through SECURE BOOT or will they, at least, be really stopped at the BOOT level?
     
  9. oliverjia

    oliverjia Registered Member

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    I don't really know the in-depth tech details of how UEFI/Secure Boot can prevent bootkit from highjacking the OS loader. I think since the authenticate boot loader is digitally signed, it should somehow at least helps preventing unsigned loader (malware) from loading.

    I think you question comes down to how easy it is to steal the digital signature and implement the legit signature into the fake loader? I would imagine it to be very hard, if there is a way to do it.

     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  10. dja2k

    dja2k Registered Member

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    Not Windows 7, but similar topic for Windows 8.

    Does any one know why on my Sony Vaio running UEFI and Secure Boot I can never boot after restore of an image? For example, I used Aomei Backupper Boot Disk which I have to boot in Legacy Mode. Then complete the restore of image and change back to UEFI, etc. Then I can't boot into Windows, so I have to run Bootrec /fixmbr, Bootrec /fixboot, and Bootrec /rebuildbcd for it to fix the Windows error saying it can't find C:\Windows\system32\winload.efi.

    dja2k
     
  11. oliverjia

    oliverjia Registered Member

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    The problem is not with your laptop itself, it's the way your perform backup/restore that caused this problem.

    Ditch AOMEI backupper - some say it works but I never have good luck with it. Download the free Macrium Reflect and install. Create a Boot CD/USB from within the program. Then you can boot from the Macrium CD in UEFI with Secure boot on (i.e., you can not turn off secure boot at this step). You have to boot the Macrium recovery CD in UEFI mode (find how to do it on your laptop, usually press F8 or F12, etc). Once it boot into the program then perform the backup.
    Note you have to backup the EFI, MSR, and C: drive altogether.

    This will give you a functional backup. When you restore it, again boot the cd in UEFI mode with Secure boot on and restore. I am sure you'll have a working laptop after restore. the key is DO NOT disable secure boot during boot, backup and restore processes.


     
  12. dja2k

    dja2k Registered Member

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    Thanks! I think the problem is not backing up EFI, MSR, and C:, it's that it has like 6 partitions because of the Vaio Assist I suppose. If I backup the whole drive, it won't restore them the same way. By the way Aomei and Macrium have both worked flawless on my Desktop PC that doesn't have secure boot, but I just recently started to use them. The Windows Disk Image stopped functioning when I updated to 8.1 on the Vaio, so that's why I was looking for an alternative. Active Disk Image wouldn't successfully backup on the Vaio either. Haven't tried it with Macrium though, so will try that and see.

    dja2k
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  13. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    dja2k,

    You only need to backup and restore the Windows partition.
     
  14. dja2k

    dja2k Registered Member

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    Well that's what I would do with the others on Legacy mode and wouldn't work ever. I actually imaged the whole drive with Macrium Rescue Disk then restored it right after to test. I am new to Macrium so didn't know it would work, but wow it did! Thanks for the replies :D

    dja2k
     
  15. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Then you did something wrong or a bad app. It works with Legacy and UEFI.
     
  16. dja2k

    dja2k Registered Member

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    Had tried recovering only C:\ with Active@ Boot Disk prior and last night with Aomei Backupper, but both gave the can't find winload.efi error when booting. Maybe I will try to recover only C:\ with Macrium to see what happens.

    dja2k
     
  17. Robin A.

    Robin A. Registered Member

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    The Windows imager is still there in 8.1 after an upgrade, and should work (it does in my case). Also, it selects automatically the partitions to backup "the system" (EFI System, new WinRE Tools, MSR and Windows).
     
  18. dja2k

    dja2k Registered Member

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    Yes I know it's still under "File History", but the problem was when restoring. Everything I tried to restore an image it gave me some error saying "Recovery Failed". Never found a solution so I move on.

    dja2k
     
  19. Robin A.

    Robin A. Registered Member

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    OK. Then the built-in MS imaging program in Win 8.1 is not compatible with 8.1.

    This is an UEFI problem. From a Paragon manual:
     
  20. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Hi Brian and other experts, I need your help.

    About less than a year ago, I purchased ASUS ET2400IGTS, for the image please see the following link:

    http://www.asus.com/AllinOne_PCs/ET2400IGTS/

    The above came with one 1TB hard drive and one DVD. Before I purchased, the ASUS hardware man assured me that it has extra SATA port but I will need the power splitter from one into two, so that I can install my SSD. So, I prepared my 120GB SSD and cloned the Windows 7 OS on it. To make the story short, when he opened my model it didn't contain the extra SATA port. So, I decided to leave it as it is.

    However, according to him, the SSD with the Windows 7 OS didn't boot. He is not the software man, only hardware man. I have a regular legacy BIOS, no UEFI, however the 1TB hard drive contains at the end of drive a small EFI partition.

    Now, I have ordered a new 240GB SSD and want to replace it with the 1TB hard drive and have to take the ASUS ET2400IGTS to him as I cannot open it myself. Every time, I get charged and cannot go inside his working area. So, before I take him everything, I want to make sure the SSD loads the new Windows 8.1 OS that I have on this machine now.

    Best regards,

    Mohamed
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  21. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Hi Brain and other experts,

    Here are couple of screen shots for the 1TB hard drive. Brain if you remember, we visited this issue the first time in Image For Windows thread.
     

    Attached Files:

  22. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Hi Brian and other experts,

    More information.

    The first partition is 15GB Recovery Partition which is NTFS, but I cannot assign a drive letter to it. It came with the computer with Windows 7 and other stuff preloaded, now I have Windows 8.1 OS on this machine.

    The last partition is the EFI partition, and again I cannot assign a drive letter to it.

    Best regards,

    Mohamed
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  23. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Mohamed,

    Just a little more info needed...

    In your TBOSDT folder

    C:\Program Files (x86)\TeraByte Unlimited\TeraByte OSD Tool Suite Pro or
    C:\Program Files\TeraByte Unlimited\TeraByte OSD Tool Suite Pro

    open the win folder, right click tbosdtw.exe and Run as Administrator. Type this and press Enter...

    LIST HD 0 /F /U

    Can you post a screenshot of the window.

    Also, can you post a link to that previous thread where we discussed this computer. I've forgotten the details.

    Edit... Use this line instead of the above...(Use your mouse to copy and paste it into TBOSDT)

    LIST HD 0 /F /U /Q /A=2048
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  24. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Hi Brian,

    Here is the screen shot.

    Best regards,

    Mohamed
     

    Attached Files:

  25. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Hi Brian,

    Here is the link where the discussion took place, from page 21 post #501:

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=305838&page=21

    Best regards,

    Mohamed
     
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