Moving From 80GB Samsung to 160GB Seagate Drive - Need Help

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by TryBackup, Aug 24, 2006.

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  1. TryBackup

    TryBackup Registered Member

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    bobdat, bottom, dld, Menorcaman, starsfan09, Xpilot,

    After my last post, I experimented with restoring an image / cloning my old 80GB hard drive onto the new 160GB hard drive just to see how both methods worked. My final decision was to use the 80GB drive image to move the data to the new 160GB drive. The main reason was that when cloning, even when when telling TI 9.0 not to resize the partitions when copying data onto the 160GB drive, TI (before I hit the proceed button) still presented me with partitions that had different partition sizes for each drive (maybe once the cloning was done, the actual partition sizes would be as I wanted them, but I was concerned when TI showed me sizes on the pre-proceed page that did not match the old drive partition sizes). Although using cloning, I could have elected to manually set the partition sizes, considering how important it was to keep the Dell hidden partition sizes exactly the same as they were on the old 80GB drive, I did not feel comfortable manually setting the sizes, as I did not know if any selection made from a TI drop-down menu would result in 160GB drive partition sizes that were precisely the same as the 80GB drive partition sizes. Once the 80GB image was restored to the 160GB drive (with all partitions still not resized, all features still worked (C partition, Dell Diagnostics, PC Restore and System Restore, internet, home network, etc.).

    Once the 80GB drive image was restored to the new 160GB drive, I deleted the Dell PC Restore partition (for me a FAT32 partition sized 3.478GB) through Control Panel > Administrative Tools > Computer Management > Storage > Disk Management. After following this path, I clicked on the last partition (the Dell PC Restore partition), hit the delete key, and confirmed that I wanted to delete the partition. As expected, after deletion, the disk space surrendered as added to the drive's unallocated space. Once the Dell PC Restore partition was deleted, I confirmed that Dell Diagnostics, System Restore and all programs, etc. still functioned. Also, upon rebooting, hitting Crtl+F11 resulted in a "Cannot Restore" message (after this, I just hit any key, then hit F1 to reboot normally). I know this result is no surprise to the experienced posters here, but for me I wanted to take very slow methodical steps and test everything I could think of before moving onto the next step.

    My new 160GB internal drive now has the following partitions: 47.03MB FAT16 (Dell Diagnostics) partition, 70.97GB NTFS (C) partition, and 78.03GB of unallocated space. The last step I need to take is to get the unallocated space added to the C partition. Xpilot previously suggested that I setup a TI Secure Zone with the full unallocated space and then delete the Secure Zone telling TI to add the freed-up space to the C partition. I also believe there is a tool within XP's administrative tools that allows for partition resizing. bobdat also mentioned that there are several methods to resize the C partition. If using the TI Secure Zone method will be effective, that seems like the easiest method for me. However, if I am right, the TI secure zone is activated by hitting Crtl+F11. During my restore/cloning experimentation (before I deleted the PC Restore partition), I found that if PC Restore was "broken" hitting the Crtl+F11 key froze my PC after the showing the message "Loading PBR for Descriptor 3 ... Done". The only way I could gain access to the 160GB drive after this was to do another image restore or disk cloning. If using the TI Secure Zone will result in the PC locking up again, I would rather use another method. Now that the Dell PC Restore partition has been is deleted, maybe the system freeze will not occur, as any time I hit Crtl+F11 key now, instead of freezing the PC says "Cannot Restore". I just do not know if temporarily using TI Secure Zone to move unallocated space to the C partition will reactive the Crtl+F11 key and cause me a freezing problem again. Any suggestions?

    I also wanted to ask if I need to leave any space on my new 160GB drive as unallocated. I noticed that my 80GB Dell Samsung internal drive (the one from which I am moving data to the new 160GB Seagate drive) had some unallocated space. Since the 80GB drive came directly from Dell a couple of weeks ago, I am wondering if Dell requires there to be some unallocated space on the drive. Out of the 80GB capacity, Dell left 7.844MB as unallocated. Do I need to leave a certain amount of unallocated space on my new 160GB drive?

    Thank you all again for your previous responses and for any additional help you can provide as I try to bring this drive upgrade process to a happy conclusion.
     
  2. TryBackup

    TryBackup Registered Member

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    I have learned from this thread that there are certain disk changes that "break" Dell's PC Restore, but I do not know that reinstalling XP within the same partition is one of them. If when reinstalling XP and programs, you do not disturb the size or location of any of the partitions, what I now believe (based on this thread) is that Dell's PC Restore should still work (I could easily be wrong about this). Based on this thread, without a doubt, if the drive were to be reformatted before reinstalling XP, Dell's PC Restore function would no longer work, because the Dell hidden partition that contains the PC Restore function would be destroyed.


    That makes a lot of sense, but I still don't like it. Dell should not offer a "no program install" option if they are going to do it anyway. One of the reasons I purchased the 9150 model instead of the XPS 400 model (they are the same machines except for the component and program options) was because the 9150 system purchase options did not force me to accept a security software trial. As it turns out, I they installed the trial anyway. So much for Dell paying attention to the details.


    Although as I mentioned earlier, I am not ready to do your suggested "operation wipeout", your suggestion did get me to look at my PC's installed programs. I discovered that although my Dell PC did come with the Operating System Reinstall, Drivers & Utilities, monitor driver, soundcard driver/program, and WordPerfect CDs; it did not come with the CDs for Roxio Creator/MyDVD, Sonic CinePlayer or Dell Tools. I asked Dell Support for these missing CDs in an online chat and they sent me these CDs. So now I have all the disks I would need if in the worst case I had to renistall everything manually.

    Thank you for all the advice on how to proceed should I need to do a full PC manual reinstall. I know oftentimes it is important to do things in a certain order. Thank you for spelling this out step-by-step.
     
  3. Papa

    Papa Registered Member

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    "but Dell would probably just use the Add/Remove programs feature and neglect to remove all the remnants"

    I had the same problem with remnant removal. There's a program called "Your Uninstaller 2006 Pro" that will remove all program remnants. It worked for me. It's a pain in the rear to have to manually try to find all those remnants, especially for any type of Norton's and McAfee's junk.
     
  4. TryBackup

    TryBackup Registered Member

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    Papa,

    To be quite honest, I am afraid to change anything in the computer's registry. If a software manufacturer specifically tells me that it is safe to remove certain registry keys, then I would be willing to do it. However, I would not feel comfortable using a software program to identify registry keys to remove. I have heard some people say that they are happy using these programs, and others say that they would never use them. Until I have a specific problem that I need to fix, and a person or specific software manufacturer gives me specific registry key by registry key advice, I will not make any changes to the pc's registry. I really dislike uninstalled program remnants, but I do not want to make a mistake in the registry. But thank you anyway for the program suggestion.
     
  5. TryBackup

    TryBackup Registered Member

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    To All,

    I have now completed the transfer of my data from my 80GB internal hard drive to my new 160GB internal hard drive. I just wanted to thank everyone that has helped me reach this point and to provide to, any interested parties, the steps I finally took to accomplish transfer. Obviously, the Dell hidden partitions complicated this process, but with everyone's help, I learned alot and made all the right decisions for my needs.

    The final process I followed to transfer my data, partitions, etc. to my new 160GB drive are as follows:

    - I booted from the TI 9.0 Rescue boot disk, and I created and validated a full image backup of my 80GB drive saved to my external drive. By definition the image included all partitions (including 2 hidden Dell partitions).

    - I then through TI restored this image to my new 160GB drive (I planned to delete the hidden Dell PC Restore 3.478GB FAT32 partition, so I was not concerned about corrupting it).

    - I deleted the hidden Dell PC Restore partition. For me this was the third of three partitions. I deleted this partition using Windows XP Home Administrative Tools (Start > Control Panel > Adminitrative Tools > Computer Management > Disk Management. After following this path, I clicked on the Dell PC Restore partition (my third partition), hit the delete key, and confirmed that I wanted to delete the partition.

    - Using TI 9.0, I temporarily created a TI Secure Zone using all unallocated drive space (I did not include any available space from within the exisitng partitions, just the unallocated space).

    - After creating the Secure Zone, but before leaving TI, I deleted the Secure Zone. I added all surrendered space from the deletion to my C partition.

    - After doing this, my 160GB drive had two partitions; the 47.03MB hidden Dell Diagnostics partition and approximately 149GB allocated to my C partition, with no unallocated space remaining.

    - I exited TI and then ran CHKDSK, McAfee Virsus Scan, deleted all temporary internet files, and then defragmented the drive.

    - Using the TI 9.0 Rescue Boot disk, I created and validated a full image backup of my new 160GB internal drive. I have mounted this image to verify that I can gain access to it.

    After all of this was completed, I verified that Dell Diagnostics still functioned (Dell Diagnostics is housed in the hidden first partition on my drive) and that PC Restore has been fully deleted. During a normal boot, hitting Ctrl+F11 brings up the message "Can not restore". Hitting any other key after this message is displayed brings up the option to hit F1 to reboot or F2 to enter the setup utility. Also, if I hit F11 during a normal boot, the PC will ignore this key selection, as I do not have a TI Secure Zone setup (the Secure Zone I setup earlier was immediately deleted, so I was glad to see the PC ignore the F11 selection).

    Going forward I will make regular full image backups to be protected against any future hard drive crisis.

    In conclusion, I would again like to thank everyone who contibuted to this thread. I learned something from every single posting. The temendous knowledge I gained from all the postings enabled me to confidently make the right decisions for my needs and to avoid all the pitfalls that exist when using new software and a new process. Thank you again.
     
  6. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    I'm glad to see you got all this squashed, and it all worked for you. :D :D :thumb:


    Now, are you ready for something else?? :gack:
    What are you going to do with that 80gb HD? *puppy*

    Since the XPS400/9150/9100 are the same computers, but have different Processors in them. You can actually put up to 4 Internal HD's inside.
    Here is what you I recommend you do with the 80gb....IF it's still good.

    1) Put the 80gb next to the 160gb inside your case.
    2) Get another SATA cable, and run it from the 80gb HD to the Motherboard. (Each HD will need its own cable)
    3) Hook the 160gb to "SATA0" (you'll see the Blue plug for it on the Motherboard. It's the Master plug.), and hook the 80gb to "SATA1".
    4) Reboot the computer, and immediately go into the BIOS. Now, scroll down to the "Drives", and Turn ON ...."SATA0" & "SATA1". Save and then Exit.
    5) When the computer boots up, you'll notice 2 HD's.
    6) Right Click on the F:/ drive (Do not mess with C:/ ), format to NTFS.

    Now you have an "Internal" Storage drive that you can save ALL your files to... as well as the External HD that you have.
     

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  7. TryBackup

    TryBackup Registered Member

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    starsfan09,

    Yes, the 80gb drive is still good. When moving the data from the 80gb drive to the 160gb drive, I kept the original data on the 80gb drive as a backup in case the transfer did not go as planned. Once I did the inital backup of the 80gb drive, I did not access that drive again (except when I did not want to access the 160gb drive), until I did a similar transfer of data on my secondary pc.

    Once the data transfer to the 160gb drive was complete, I moved on to my secondary pc that also had an 80gb drive. The second pc also recently came from Dell and also had the Dell PC Restore hidden partion. Without putting the 2nd pc's original drive in jeopardy, I moved the 2nd pc's data to the 80gb drive that I removed from my primary pc. Once this process was completed, I had the 2nd pc's 80gb drive available for other purposes.

    I am still tyring to determine what that other purpose will be. I have considered formatting the drive and installing it as a second drive in the primary pc (the pc now with the 160gb drive), to be used for frequent TI imaging. These images would be done more frequently than the images I would create using my 250gb MyBook external drive. I also thought about using it as you suggested (as a second drive for data, etc.).

    My initial intent, before the whole data transfer process started, was to move the extra 80gb drive back and forth between the two PCs to do test restores of TI images. However, after moving cables back and forth between different drives during the 80gb to 160gb data transfer process, I feel that I would rather not touch the cabling and move that drive around so much. I do not want to short something or break something in either of the PCs. Testing images is a good idea, but I am wondering if mounting these images is just as good as doing test restores (I will be creating a new thread to help me answer this question).

    Until I get an answer to the "test restore" vs. "mount image" question, I am not really sure what I will do with the extra 80gb drive. Until this is determined, I will keep close by the instructions you provided on how to use the 80gb drive as a second drive in my primary pc.

    Thank you!
     
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