MBAM & Evidence Eliminator

Pseudo · Jul 21, 2008

Re: Best Eraser

3DFireStarteR said:

Absolutely correct. EE may have a high price tag but in my oppinion it is the best, it will even electronically remove data to avoid detection from an electron microscope, i have been using it a wile and i like it, but yeah maybe I'm just too paranoid ;/
Click to expand...

EE doesn't securely delete data at all.

ChrisP · Jul 21, 2008

Re: Best Eraser

Pseudo said:

EE doesn't securely delete data at all.
Click to expand...

Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

I have tested it with dir snoop and it looks to me like it has worked.

There are several well documented cases where it has been proven in court that it has made data unrecoverable. See below for an example. You can Google for more.

http://www.ediscoverylaw.com/2005/0...iminator-software-warrants-adverse-inference/

nosirrah · Jul 21, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

If EE was a good app why does it need rogue advertising ? I would assume that its greatness would be advertisment enough .

We hand MBAM out for free (scan and remove version) and its sells itself .

I think I can put this in a way that will prevent any further debate .

If you were checking out a new application that fit some need you had and right in the description it said that you have to buy it to try it , spend far more on it than the majority of other applications in its class and is advertised through spam and rogue type advertisment but ....... , would anything after the but even get read ?

If the answer is no then you are using your head and dont feel like being scammed . If the answer is yes then let me tell you about the deal I have for you on some bridges I own .

Pseudo · Jul 21, 2008

Re: Best Eraser

ChrisP said:

Not sure how you came to that conclusion.

I have tested it with dir snoop and it looks to me like it has worked.

There are several well documented cases where it has been proven in court that it has made data unrecoverable. See below for an example. You can Google for more.

http://www.ediscoverylaw.com/2005/0...iminator-software-warrants-adverse-inference/
Click to expand...

First of all, Evidence Eliminator is made in VB6 (the programming language for anyone who understands English), which explains why it uses so much memory just doing nothing. It's very possible Robin Hood Software retrieved all of their code through Google, as well.

Regarding your link: why were some files recovered although they were "securely" deleted? (Old files are eventually overwritten by new files.)
And why has Evidence Eliminator made Windows unbootable for some users? A program can't indeliberately do that.

Although, I can't test it myself. I don't have $150 to spare for a VB6 program.

ChrisP · Jul 21, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

nosirrah said:

If EE was a good app why does it need rogue advertising ? I would assume that its greatness would be advertisment enough .

We hand MBAM out for free (scan and remove version) and its sells itself .

I think I can put this in a way that will prevent any further debate .

If you were checking out a new application that fit some need you had and right in the description it said that you have to buy it to try it , spend far more on it than the majority of other applications in its class and is advertised through spam and rogue type advertisment but ....... , would anything after the but even get read ?

If the answer is no then you are using your head and dont feel like being scammed . If the answer is yes then let me tell you about the deal I have for you on some bridges I own .
Click to expand...

I think we will just have to agree to disagree over this. I accept the advertising / marketing is bad, but criticism of the product itself is unwaranted as in my view it is very good, has more functionality than any other and has worked perfectly for me. I notice all the criticisms of the product are not based on any fact or experience of it, or they are complete lies.

Its easy to find information on the net saying any app is rogue - does not mean it is - see below:

http://rogueremover.en.softonic.com/opinion/avoid-this-virus-program-467

My fundamental issue is that people cant seperate the marketing from the product - when it is a fact, they are different and it is a fact the product does what it says and has no malware. Just take a look at the illogic, unsubstanciated accusations and statements without evidence people here have made about the app itself.

I think you are wrong to list an ap as rogue when its just the advertising that is bad. If someone used your software and did a scan, they would get an alert telling them ee was a rogue application. The implication is that it does not do what it says or it is malware - neither of these is true. I believe you are on a slippery slope which will make alerts using your app confusing or meaningless. You should stick to alerting on apps which dont do what they claim - like malware scanners that pretend you have an infection when you dont to scam you in to parting with cash.

Anyway, its your decision what you do with your app

ChrisP · Jul 21, 2008

Re: Best Eraser

Pseudo said:

Although, I can't test it myself. .
Click to expand...

Dont let the fact you have no knowledge or experience of it stop you making a judgement. Come on tell us all how you know it does not delete files. Excuse me while I laugh.

Pseudo · Jul 21, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

ChrisP said:

I think we will just have to agree to disagree over this. I accept the advertising / marketing is bad, but criticism of the product itself is unwaranted as in my view it is very good, has more functionality than any other and has worked perfectly for me. I notice all the criticisms of the product are not based on any fact or experience of it, or they are complete lies.

Its easy to find information on the net saying any app is rogue - does not mean it is - see below:

http://rogueremover.en.softonic.com/opinion/avoid-this-virus-program-467

My fundamental issue is that people cant seperate the marketing from the product - when it is a fact, they are different and it is a fact the product does what it says and has no malware. Just take a look at the illogic, unsubstanciated accusations and statements without evidence people here have made about the app itself.

I think you are wrong to list an ap as rogue when its just the advertising that is bad. If someone used your software and did a scan, they would get an alert telling them ee was a rogue application. The implication is that it does not do what it says or it is malware - neither of these is true. I believe you are on a slippery slope which will make alerts using your app confusing or meaningless. You should stick to alerting on apps which dont do what they claim - like malware scanners that pretend you have an infection when you dont to scam you in to parting with cash.

Anyway, its your decision what you do with your app
Click to expand...

Tons of "anti-spyware tools" are listed as rogue for FPs or advertising (and not only by MalwareBytes). Are you defending them too?

ChrisP · Jul 21, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

Pseudo said:

Tons of "anti-spyware tools" are listed as rogue for FPs or advertising (and not only by MalwareBytes). Are you defending them too?
Click to expand...

No. You are missing the point

nosirrah · Jul 21, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

I typed and erased about 50 things so I guess ill just drop it .

My line in the sand keeps people safe from being conned , sorry you dont see it that way .

kr4ey · Jul 21, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

ChrisP said:

I think we will just have to agree to disagree over this. I accept the advertising / marketing is bad, but criticism of the product itself is unwaranted as in my view it is very good, has more functionality than any other and has worked perfectly for me. I notice all the criticisms of the product are not based on any fact or experience of it, or they are complete lies.

Its easy to find information on the net saying any app is rogue - does not mean it is - see below:

http://rogueremover.en.softonic.com/opinion/avoid-this-virus-program-467

My fundamental issue is that people cant seperate the marketing from the product - when it is a fact, they are different and it is a fact the product does what it says and has no malware. Just take a look at the illogic, unsubstanciated accusations and statements without evidence people here have made about the app itself.

I think you are wrong to list an ap as rogue when its just the advertising that is bad. If someone used your software and did a scan, they would get an alert telling them ee was a rogue application. The implication is that it does not do what it says or it is malware - neither of these is true. I believe you are on a slippery slope which will make alerts using your app confusing or meaningless. You should stick to alerting on apps which dont do what they claim - like malware scanners that pretend you have an infection when you dont to scam you in to parting with cash.

Anyway, its your decision what you do with your app
Click to expand...

Now I think you have gone a little too far. As a matter of fact I requested to a mod that this thread be closed. And I was going to refrain from posting on this thread.

But....

Rogue Remover is not a virus it is legitimate security software, I have had it installed for months and still have ALL my software installed and nothing has been mysteriously deleted.

I can see that it would delete EE on your computer because it is classified as a rogue app.

Rogue Advertising from a software vendor = Rogue Application

History can never be changed for EE

Now maybe the mods will close this thread. This has gone too far.

Pseudo · Jul 21, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

ChrisP said:

I think we will just have to agree to disagree over this. I accept the advertising / marketing is bad, but criticism of the product itself is unwaranted as in my view it is very good, has more functionality than any other and has worked perfectly for me. I notice all the criticisms of the product are not based on any fact or experience of it, or they are complete lies.

Its easy to find information on the net saying any app is rogue - does not mean it is - see below:

http://rogueremover.en.softonic.com/opinion/avoid-this-virus-program-467

My fundamental issue is that people cant seperate the marketing from the product - when it is a fact, they are different and it is a fact the product does what it says and has no malware. Just take a look at the illogic, unsubstanciated accusations and statements without evidence people here have made about the app itself.

I think you are wrong to list an ap as rogue when its just the advertising that is bad. If someone used your software and did a scan, they would get an alert telling them ee was a rogue application. The implication is that it does not do what it says or it is malware - neither of these is true. I believe you are on a slippery slope which will make alerts using your app confusing or meaningless. You should stick to alerting on apps which dont do what they claim - like malware scanners that pretend you have an infection when you dont to scam you in to parting with cash.

Anyway, its your decision what you do with your app
Click to expand...

"This program is a virus as it deletes PC security programs on a user's PC"

"Here are some of the other fake and rogue security tools they create can be found here:
malwarebytes .org, noidea .us, Spywarefix .org, SpywareWarrior .com"

EDIT: Oh, I recognize KayKaspersky...

LoneWolf · Jul 21, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

ChrisP said:

And yes, I will keep my money, as you have not presented any evidence that supports your unfounded claim that it is a rogue app, contains Malware or does not do what it claims.
Click to expand...

From EE's Software License Agreement....................

7.2 Robin Hood does not warrant that the Software shall be free from all known viruses although it has used commercially reasonable efforts to check for the most commonly known viruses prior to making it available to download. You are solely responsible for virus scanning the Software.

Pedro · Jul 21, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

kr4ey said:

Now I think you have gone a little too far. As a matter of fact I requested to a mod that this thread be closed. And I was going to refrain from posting on this thread.
Click to expand...

I feel i have to step in, and point out that you keep missing ChrisP's point, over and over.
He is not saying Rogue Remover is rogue itself, or malware. He tried to explain this quite a few times already, and i understood him the first time.
He is clearly (!) showing that anyone can say anything about any program.

Furthermore, not having tried the program yourself, practically makes irrelevant whatever you have to say about the program itself. You have no experience with it, neither do i.

The things you should be concentrating in, is what nosirrah is saying, questionable marketing practices makes a questionable company, hence a program to avoid most likely.
I think so too.

The discussion is, if marketing alone can define a rogue application.
At no point in this or the other thread did i see proof that EE is malware, or does anything fishy. The only people who say they used it, say it's 1) clean, 2)works.

To stay clear of all this (hell no!), i won't say what i think.
I just felt the need to stand by reason heh.

kr4ey · Jul 21, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

Pedro said:

I feel i have to step in, and point out that you keep missing ChrisP's point, over and over.
He is not saying Rogue Remover is rogue itself, or malware. He tried to explain this quite a few times already, and i understood him the first time.
He is clearly (!) showing that anyone can say anything about any program.

Furthermore, not having tried the program yourself, practically makes irrelevant whatever you have to say about the program itself. You have no experience with it, neither do i.

The things you should be concentrating in, is what nosirrah is saying, questionable marketing practices makes a questionable company, hence a program to avoid most likely.
I think so too.

The discussion is, if marketing alone can define a rogue application.
At no point in this or the other thread did i see proof that EE is malware, or does anything fishy. The only people who say they used it, say it's 1) clean, 2)works.

To stay clear of all this (hell no!), i won't say what i think.
I just felt the need to stand by reason heh.
Click to expand...

Yes. I understand. EE has very questionable marketing practices.

1. No free trial of there software. No way to test or evaluate there software.
2. Price for EE is $75 to $150 just to test there software.
3. Do they stand by there 30 day trial to provide the customer with a refund, if they don't like the software.

I emailed EE for an answer to why they don't offer free evaluations.... no response.

And yes it is a company to avoid by all means. As I said before I will not shell out $75 to $150 for questionable software just to evaluate.

ChrisP · Jul 22, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

LoneWolf said:

From EE's Software License Agreement....................

7.2 Robin Hood does not warrant that the Software shall be free from all known viruses although it has used commercially reasonable efforts to check for the most commonly known viruses prior to making it available to download. You are solely responsible for virus scanning the Software.
Click to expand...

And your point is:

This is a standard clause in lots of software and is also used as a disclaimer in mostemails and on most CDs with SW.

You are just clutching at straws in an atempt to defend an illogical position.

The reaction of kr4ey to the url on Rogue remover is a prime example of bias and an inability to look at facts objectively. You seem to blindly support Malwarebites because without actually understanding the evidence or facts, you credit them with some infalability or unquestionable correctness. This is a very dangerous position. Try looking at the evidence for yourself.

testerazzi · Jul 22, 2008

Re: Best Eraser

I agree with Pseudo.

interesting article
http://www.radsoft.net/resources/rants/20060509,00.shtml

analysis performed by
Department of Informatics University of Salerno (Italy):

original version
http://www.dia.unisa.it/~ads/corso-security/www/CORSO-0304/EnCase/Pagine/3_4.htm

translated version
http://translate.google.it/translat...ase/Pagine/3_4.htm&sl=it&tl=en&hl=it&ie=UTF-8

ChrisP · Jul 22, 2008

Re: Best Eraser

We will ignore anything by Radsoft as I have proved everything they say is a lie and they are just trying to sell their ee competitor which coats even more!

The other article concludes by saying:

"in this case EnCase are useful when the files were "simply" erased. . If the files are overwritten then it is impossible to recover the original information. "

thank you

LoneWolf · Jul 22, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

ChrisP said:

And your point is:

This is a standard clause in lots of software and is also used as a disclaimer in mostemails and on most CDs with SW.
Click to expand...

is it really?
Not any I have or will ever download.
You can have your EE.
I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Someone · Jul 22, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

Hi

ChrisP said:

This is a standard clause in lots of software and is also used as a disclaimer in mostemails and on most CDs with SW.
Click to expand...

Can you give an example?

The reaction of kr4ey to the url on Rogue remover is a prime example of bias and an inability to look at facts objectively. You seem to blindly support Malwarebites because without actually understanding the evidence or facts, you credit them with some infalability or unquestionable correctness. This is a very dangerous position. Try looking at the evidence for yourself.
Click to expand...

I believe he just misunderstood that point. Nothing wrong with that.

Thanks

ChrisP · Jul 22, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

http://software.nodevice.com/catego.../program_tn_bridge_3_29913-30518_license.html

There are others. You cant guarantee anything is virus free. All you can do is state you will use all reasonable efforts to ensure it is.

The disclaimer is a sensible statement to limit liability and it is naieve to pretend it is in any way suggesting they will be using malware.

Im sure everyone here has lots of capable malware scanners. Has anyone found malwre in ee? (I mean, anyone who does not use MBAM, which just flags software as "rogue" because the author does not like the adverts for the product!)

kr4ey · Jul 22, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

ChrisP said:

And your point is:

This is a standard clause in lots of software and is also used as a disclaimer in mostemails and on most CDs with SW.
Click to expand...

I have never seen this either.

ChrisP said:

You are just clutching at straws in an atempt to defend an illogical position.
Click to expand...

No he's not

ChrisP said:

The reaction of kr4ey to the url on Rogue remover is a prime example of bias and an inability to look at facts objectively. You seem to blindly support Malwarebites because without actually understanding the evidence or facts, you credit them with some infalability or unquestionable correctness. This is a very dangerous position. Try looking at the evidence for yourself.
Click to expand...

There are no facts in that url to Rogue Remover!!!! They are all lies. All those programs are listed as rogue software at that URL and elsewhere on the the internet.

http://www.spywarewarrior.com/rogue_anti-spyware.htm

Rogue Remover is excellent at what its intended to do, remove rogue software.

I do not blindly support Malwarebytes I support them 100%. I have used there products for a long time and I know they work and they work excellent.
And all there software is free to use.

It would kind of hard to support EE as they require up to $150 to trial there software. I would not throw away up to $150 on a questionable company just to find if they stand by there 30 day guarantee. According to its history I would never trust them.

I have NEVER seen a 30 day guarantee like this.

http://www.evidence-eliminator.com/guarantee.d2w

As for me I'm done feeding this troll.

Someone · Jul 22, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

kr4ey said:

I have never seen this either.

[QUOT=ChrisP]You are just clutching at straws in an atempt to defend an illogical position.[?QUOTE]

No he's not

There are no facts in that url to Rogue Remover!!!! They are all lies. All those programs are listed as rogue software at that URL and elsewhere on the the internet.

http://www.spywarewarrior.com/rogue_anti-spyware.htm

Rogue Remover is excellent at what its intended to do, remove rogue software.

I do not blindly support Malwarebytes I support them 100%. I have used there products for a long time and I know they work and they work excellent.
And all there software is free to use.

It would kind of hard to support EE as they require up to $150 to trial there software. I would not throw away up to $150 on a questionable company just to find if they stand by there 30 day guarantee. According to its history I would never trust them.

I have NEVER seen a 30 day guarantee like this.

http://www.evidence-eliminator.com/guarantee.d2w

As for me I'm done feeding this troll.
Click to expand...

Hi

I think you're missing a point ChrisP is trying to make. He said, "Its easy to find information on the net saying any app is rogue - does not mean it is - see below:

http://rogueremover.en.softonic.com/...us-program-467"
(bold is mine)

He was using it as an example stating that there are many opinions on the Internet that is totally false.

Pleonasm · Jul 22, 2008

Re: Best Eraser

I have tested it with dir snoop and it looks to me like it has worked
Click to expand...

ChrisP, posting a series of screen images from Directory Snoop (or WinHex) showing the following would be helpful:

Evidence Eliminator destroys the contents of a file when erasing it

Evidence Eliminator destroys the name of a file in the Master File Table when erasing it

ChrisP · Jul 22, 2008

Re: Best Eraser

Pleonasm said:

ChrisP, posting a series of screen images from Directory Snoop (or WinHex) showing the following would be helpful:

Evidence Eliminator destroys the contents of a file when erasing it

Evidence Eliminator destroys the name of a file in the Master File Table when erasing it

Click to expand...

I will see what I can do when I have finished work tonight.

In order to completely clean the drive i need to do a safe restart with ee - which takes several hours as it will need to underwrite about 100 Gig of files and wipe 200 gig of free space etc.

I will post later on or tomorrow.

ChrisP · Jul 22, 2008

Re: MBAM & Evidense Eliminator

kr4ey said:

I have never seen this either.

No he's not

There are no facts in that url to Rogue Remover!!!! They are all lies. All those programs are listed as rogue software at that URL and elsewhere on the the internet.

http://www.spywarewarrior.com/rogue_anti-spyware.htm

Rogue Remover is excellent at what its intended to do, remove rogue software.

I do not blindly support Malwarebytes I support them 100%. I have used there products for a long time and I know they work and they work excellent.
And all there software is free to use.

It would kind of hard to support EE as they require up to $150 to trial there software. I would not throw away up to $150 on a questionable company just to find if they stand by there 30 day guarantee. According to its history I would never trust them.

I have NEVER seen a 30 day guarantee like this.

http://www.evidence-eliminator.com/guarantee.d2w

As for me I'm done feeding this troll.
Click to expand...

You dont seem to be able to understand. Pedro and others have tried to explain to you where you are misunderstanding. Im sorry you cant understand.

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