Macrium Reflect (free) question

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by niki, May 21, 2015.

  1. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    Han, as answered in the Macrium Forum... although the recent reference to MRRestorePoints.exe used to force Macrium to also image restore points, those points, upon restoration, are no longer valid for use (their structure is faulty upon restoration), it's primarily a Microsoft VSS issue not a Macrium issue.

    They plan to remove any reference to MRRestorePoints.exe since they discovered the above anomaly. They suggest if you really have to have Restore Points, the only way to get them "in tact" is via the external Win-PE based Macrium Recovery Media which does not use Microsoft's VSS.

    ...and being a VSS issue, that will make those very same Restore Points invalid for any restoration by any Imager that uses VSS for its HOT imaging.
     
  2. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Han, I think you might have it backwards. It's an education problem. Teach them Reflect, let them trial it, assume it works fine, both image and restore, have them turn off sys restore. If you have macrium and they understand how to use it, they will be better protected. Having sys restore in an image is a waste.

    Unless these are paying customers, I would stand firm. When a friend asks me for help, I am firm. Don't want money but the must buy the software I specify to protect the system. If they don't want to do that I invite them to seek help else where. Saves a lot of agrevation.

    Oh, and I stipulate they have to buy the paid versions.
     
  3. niki

    niki Registered Member

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    Test 1: Image selected disk on this computer (includes Dell Utility,Recovery & C: ) = 29GB
    Test 2: Create image of the partitions required to backup and restore: 29GB
    Test 3: C: only: 21.1GB
     
  4. niki

    niki Registered Member

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    I wouldn't dream to eliminate all restore points and leave always some of them by using CCleaner to delete the earliest. I never had to restore an image so far and am very hesitant to do so as I have only this PC and if it would fail I would have no recourse but to call an expert to come in and fix it for me. Yes, I am quite a bit afraid as I am a hopeless old age noob and mostly self taught with the little I know. :eek: At the moment I have only 1 restore point as I deleted most of them in the last days or so.
     
  5. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Imaging Specialist

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    Niki, the thing most users (new or expert) sometimes don't realize, that once you start using real imaging (especially with incremental images as reference points), the images are much more complete than any Microsoft Restore Point. Restore Points do not include most of the users important files... they aim to save System changes and things that can affect Windows. And if your System goes belly-up, they cannot restore that system for you.

    Restore Points are nothing more than an incomplete system incremental image... not really useful unless your system is fully operational and even then they can't return everything that is needed to a certain time point. Incremental images from imagers contain ALL CHANGES since the last one, not just system related things... and your system can be completely reconstructed using them.
     
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I am chuckling not at you, but with you. The very first image I restored, I was terrified. Sweated the whole time. Now with over 1000 restores under my belt I give it no more thought then opening a word doc. What you need to do is make a list of all your software, makes sure your have all the installers. Then take an image with two different programs. Then bite the bullet, have a towel handy and do a restore. Once you get past the fear you will see the beauty.

    Pete
     
  7. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

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    Niki...one other thing I do with this Free Version, is that AFTER I do an Image (option 1) I then select restore and VERIFY the image I just created. You will not have an automatic verify in the free version, but you can select restore and just do a verify.
     
  8. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    niki,

    Thanks for those numbers, they make sense, I'm not sure what happened a few days ago.

    There are several approaches for you to consider...

    1. Continue to make entire drive images. That's fine.

    2. Keep a single entire drive backup and only image the OS partition in the future. The first two partitions don't change so this is a reasonable approach and gives you smaller images.

    3. Copy the booting files from the Recovery partition to the OS partition and then delete the Recovery partition. You have images so the Recovery partition is redundant. If you aren't experienced then forget this option.
     
  9. niki

    niki Registered Member

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    Brian K, thank you so much for your patience and excellent explanation. :thumb:

    I will continue with making entire drive images as that way makes me feel more comfortable. My cognitive and memory problems sure do play a big part in the above decision.

    I do remember that I had discovered recently only one restore point that took up way too many GB's but don't remember exactly anymore how many (possibly near to 20GB) and the size kept on increasing and decreasing the free space on my PC. Perhaps a virus was lurking in there? So I deleted that restore point and created a manual one. Thereafter the amount of free space on my PC increased to probably the right size. Perhaps that caused the difference.....

    Thanks again Brian K!!
     
  10. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    niki,

    That could explain the difference in image sizes a few days ago.

    I delete all Microsoft Restore Points and disable protection on all partitions. As Pete mentioned, "System Restore is one of the first things I turn off on any new computer."
     
  11. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

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    I just checked my 64 bit win 8.1 system and my restore points are ON. It says I have 5GB of restore points! I guess I should remove them and turn them OFF! I never even looked at this before. With my full Images I can not imagine ever using them.
     
  12. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    MPSAN,

    I'd be interested in knowing the before and after image sizes.
     
  13. HAN

    HAN Registered Member

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    Well, they say you learn something every day! I had no idea that VSS could possibly cause anything like that. Odd that this info isn't better known. Thank you for checking on this for me!
     
  14. HAN

    HAN Registered Member

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    At a younger age, I was a "it's either black or white", all or nothing kind of guy. As I've aged, I've realized that there's much more grey out there than I could have ever imagined. Thus my statement that I want as many options as possible (images, backups, system restore, you name it!)

    In my own case, I recognized a long time ago that system restore was much more of a roll of the dice than Microsoft would ever admit. Once I figured out which imaging programs were for me (at that time Image for DOS and ShadowProtect (neither of which I use anymore (both still good, just found others I prefer now)), I jumped in and never looked back.

    But when it comes to friends and family, it's a much tougher sell. None are techie by any definition. Some are barely able to navigate around enough to do the things they want/need to do. So getting them to use another program of any kind is very difficult. And while using System Restore is a coin flip (IMO), it's something that happens automatically and is nearly always there (as long as Windows is reasonably healthy.)

    But now I know that VSS messes with the System Restore during hot images, I will have to make adjustments to my friends and family help methods...
     
  15. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Well I've learned one thing. Any one can learn most anything if they want to. SO I use tough love..if they want my help, they have to be willing to make the effort to learn.
     
  16. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

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    OK, Brian...I will let you know, but it may take me a short bit before I can get to it!
     
  17. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

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    Brian, this is strange...and I have cleared the recycle bin.
    Before I removed the Restore points my Image was 23,100,004 KB and it said I had 5 GB in checkpoints.

    After disabling them and removing the checkpoints (and making sure Recycle bin was clear) the image is a little BIGGER! It is now 23,100,136KB. How can that happen?
     
  18. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    MPSAN,

    Strange. I keep an eye on the amount of Free Space in my C: drive. It "shouldn't" change. If it does I use TreeSize to see why.

    Windows Restore Points are stored in the System Volume Information folder. Check that folder in TreeSize. It should be less than 1 MB in size. Also check $Recycle.Bin. It should be almost zero in size.

    Edit... Were you doing a VSS image backup?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
  19. MPSAN

    MPSAN Registered Member

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    I am using FREE and did Op
     
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