Linux advise, please?

LOL! for an OS that takes the latest hardware and accommodates ancient ones as well, runs on minimal antiquated machines with ease, has the most active kernel development with frequent dynamic updates is SLOW. When did MS get its last kernel upgrade may I ask. All it does is peddle old wine in new bottle. The stable MS OS is NT based which in turn is roughly OS/2 based so in the end, unlike Linux which is a new creation, Windows isn't' except for fancy new shells and hype marketing. No wonder the expectations are so high and then they fall down with the biggest thud and go flat. The reason, people are expecting something new and all they find out is a bloated buggy OS instead. MS's best efforts till date is NT followed by 2K and 2003 and now 2008, notice that all of them are office oriented. Perhaps they best compromise wast x64 XP which MS in its own greed treated it like a stepchild. It was the best hope for MS and they should have continued with the development and marketing of it. With 2003 NT 5.2 as the core, its solid, fast and has no issues. As a mater of fact when it came to x64, MS got an edge over its Linux counterparts with WoW which ran all x32 programs with ease.

The fact that Linux runs as non root default is its best feature and unlike MS who should have implemented this, Linux is safe from hacks relatively.

 

Well, I wouldn't take it very seriously if I get flamed. I agree Linux is a very good invention and I do intend to use it for some purpouses. It also seems like it's becoming more widely used in poor countries which is just great, challenging the ubiquity of Microsoft and other corporations. But the "only" problem of people having Windows software is really rather big from the perspective of Linux becoming a real competitor of Windows. I can't find any Linux equivalents of Cubase, 3dStudioMax and other more or less standard apps (no, Blender won't be an option for most people, impressive though it be). Neither, and more important, can I find the same enormous selection of first class freeware or cheap shareware. Admittedly there's a lot of good Linux applications, but you can never be certain that they'll suit the latest version of your special distro. This is not necessarily a fault with Linux, but together with the exotic way of installing software (for Windows users), and considering the time Linux has been around, it makes a general migration seem rather improbable within a couple of generations. But maybe I'm just not comfortable enough with it yet. I'd love to see Microsoft beaten, just like some millions of other users do.

About the password issue: Maybe not a bad thing, just my ego. If I want passwords, I put them there when it suits me. I do have a problem with all this bundled software too, it's like the OEM stuff forced on you, except it's the real stuff instead of half a GB of bloatware. But as I said, maybe it's just my ego (which I prefer to call "integrity").

Anyway, this is far off topic.

 

Hello,
I think the main reason for people not adopting to Linux is that the programs they use doesn't work on Linux. Plus don't forgot about that Linux is still considered "for Geeks only"
Users don't mind what operating system they use as long as they can do what they want with it.
If I could set-up FreeBSD to do everything I wanted to i would be using it, this includes all my applications working with it. I quite like openSolaris.

 

That's what I mean. But I do mind what OS I use. Arup is right about Windows. Furthermore it's damn expensive if you're not satisfied with OEM versions, and definitely deteriorating UI-wise IMO. I'll stick with XP for a while yet and hope for the best in the future. And Linux is definitely not a geek thing any more - at least that much I have learned with the help of people here on Wilder's.

 

Vista was actually a great leap forward in terms of the windows kernel. MS seriously componentized and made the code more malleable. Windows 7 has lots of kernel optimizations. Linux isn't much newer/older either I believe. Development started on Linux and NT in the early 90s.

That is a problem with the ecosystem being not as developed in Linux due to its lesser popularity, not the purported slow development cycles.

Not sure that is entirely true. Just because there isn't a load of software in the opensource ecosystem, doesn't mean you won't be able to find software that will be the same functionality wise. If theres something specific you are referring to, ask in these forums and I'm sure there will be people here who know good Linux alternatives.

I think you really addressed your own point there. It seems strange from the windows user perspective because people are used to the idea of downloading an exe and double clicking. This doesn't mean that the idea of having centralized repositories and installing via the commandline or a gui frountend is a poor way of installing software. I'd argue that it is more elegant and efficient than how windows handles it. Each time you download an exe, it includes all the required libraries, increasing the size of your download. Additionally, management of different dll versions is also inefficient. If you have Vista, just check the size of your windows\winsxs folder. It contains all different dll versions to avoid conflict of libraries. It can get to be as big as 10 gigs on some computers.

Well that is a matter of taste. Windows 7 will be making the shell more configurable though. Additionally, there are a few alternative shells out there for those who like tweaking.

 

Hello,
I quite like the idea of package management systems.
Its nice to have one place that updates everything.
say in windows I use media monkey for music. since there isnt media monkey for linux what do I use? there are loads of media programs for linux but which one? I couldn't think of a better example at this time.

There are times when you do download a .rpm or .deb etc anyway and then they install using the package manager.
I find it strange where linux stores programs. i cant remember the exact directory structure at this time. I am sure there is a reason for it. Hopefully someone can explain or provide me with a link explaining it.
Windows and Apple OSX's program install structure is much easier.
apple stores in /applications and of course windows stores in Letter:\program files.

If you install firefox using package manager. If later on you delete the firefox folder manually do all the short cuts including menus in in gnome kde etc go as well? I'm assuming when you lanch package manager it will notice firefox is deleted and then delete all references to it and allow you to install it again if you wish it?

I sometimes wonder why apple doesn't have a package manager? apple updater does just apple updates.

I'm thinking that there maybe a mix of with paid software and not having free upgrades etc.

does anyone complain about downloading .dmg files separately? do apple directory's get really big to make sure software has the correct libraries

I like the way apple does it. an installer to install the software and to uninstall simply delete the directory.
if you wish to stick with opera 9.5 for now have it ticked every time you check for any available updates with a package manager with OSX or windows.

I hope Linux gets used more and more. I don't know which operating system I will be using in years to come.
at the moment Microsoft has the majority market share so they can produce whatever they like even if it is outdated bloatware.
As Linux or other Unix based operating systems get used more users and companies will notice how much more reliable it is. By this time Microsoft will be forced to create more reliable and up to date operating system and applications or lose their market share.

 

Yep, I know several people in this exact situation, and there are no suitable replacements or alternatives they will accept in the Linux world..

 

Just a note, a .deb package (for instance) is in many ways like the .exe self extracting windows installer.. that uninstalls clean.
It's just a matter of having them available.

 

Amarok or Miro are a couple of possible alternatives. Otherwise you can always run mediamonkey using WINE.

 

No users - no software; no software - no users. An evil circle. The ecosystem of Linux lagging in its evolution rather than the OS itself. All right, I buy that.
Anyway there's no point in discussing the pros and cons of various OS:es here. I think this is meant to be a security oriented forum. I'm grateful for having learned what I came here for and will probably end up with a dual boot system the next time I rebuild. After all Linux, as a collective and non-commercial achievement, has a strong socialist flavour and I cannot resist that.

 

Actually for me it was freedom from security apps and MS's forced obsolescence every few years when they would make it difficult for a customer to run a stable well patched OS and have no choice but upgrade to the latest just for compatibility reason. I don't miss the daily check of anti virus and HIPS, AS etc. For me, its using my 8 cores and 8GB to the max and enjoying it, sadly that also means deprivation of some of the best windows apps which have truly no equivalent in Linux world.

 

Wilders has a security focus but because we are all are interested in tech in general, we dont have to restrict ourselves.

Linux has a good ecosystem and a good number of users as do a number of other open source community based projects. The programs you mentioned are niche products and there just isn't enough of a market for the developers to port it over. Have a look at the WINE apps db and you will see that Cubase and 3D Studio Max have partial support.

 

If I had that kind of stuff I could even live with Vista...No. That's a lie.

That's what I'm talking about, more or less. Linux is great and not the least alien (except for that password thing) to a Windows man as long as you're content with the applications that come with the distro and the ones you can easily add after installing. Those facilities are quite enough for everyday use. (Admittedly, The Gimp is rather impressive, and Blender is fantastic in spite of its horrible UI). But as soon as you want to go about your more sophisticated computer businesses the hassle begins. Ok, so I'm willing to learn, a small group of interested people is too, but is the majority of Winusers? And anyway, there's Wine, there's Win4Lin, there's Crossover. Well, if you have to fill your Linux setup with programs to make it fit Windows, why not stay with Windows, unless you're motivated by something more than and outside of pure OS considerations?

(And, by the way, let's be honest and admit that both Microsoft and the other major actors in software industry profit from the abundance of pirated programs. Any interested kid can easily get his hands on a Photoshop and some thousands of handy plug-ins, or an Autocad or whatever - niche products, yes, but industry standards - which in the end will further confirm the hegemony of Windows and those applications, as well as provide employers with ready-educated labour. I tried to check the availability of cracked software for Linux. There ain't much, though it seems that one of the real big ones, Maya, is ported to Linux now, and offered in a cracked version. That's promising - not meaning that I endorse piracy, just that it's a sign of success on the part of Linux.)

Mind you, I'm not critisising Linux, I'm just so damn fed up with the dominance of MS and its allied software peddlers. After all, computers and the Internet is a massive democratic breakthrough, and I'd like to see it completed before I die.

And as I'm not the kind who's hellbent on getting the last word, this will be all from me. Thanks for a nice chat.

 

Surprisingly I found way to install Linux flavor of Picasa and it works as good as the windows version. Must admit, I never liked Vista, not even x64, found it too flakey and bloated but I did enjoy x64 XP which ran like a champ till I switched all over to Ubuntu. Never gave me any surprises and if I didn't need to upgrade and keep tab of security apps on daily basis, it would be a keeper for me along with Ubuntu. New Gimp is good, still clunky interface but good nonetheless and fast, also Acrobat Reader works well with the browser and as a reader.