June 18th - major announcement from Microsoft!

And Surface comes with USB ports so you can plugin a mouse or a 3G/4G modem or USB extenders, for example.

 

I still think the Surface has to be priced around 25-30% cheaper than the iPad. And be available from ATT or VZW at a sharp discount say 50-75% off with a 2yr contract. Without either of these conditions the Surface will not last more than 2 years on the market. Certainly the Surface will not reach a third of iPad sales. I say they'd be lucky to garner even 20% of iPad sales. Big FAIL MS.

 

I believe the main reason Microsoft did not provide separate OS's for the tablet and desktop was to force developers to provide apps for the MetroUI. Being that Microsoft has virtually no tablet market share, they need apps to be developed quickly to compete with Apple. If there was no Metro on the desktop OS, that would have taken forever. Maybe I am wrong but that is my take on it.

That aside, I agree that full size USB ports on the Surface is a big plus.

 

I hope they listen to your pricing suggestions somewhat , but I don't believe it will be a fail if they don't.

 

Do you think the Surface will reach even 20% of iPad sales?

 

This is impossible to even "estimate" at this time IMO. We need to wait and see official replies from Microsoft about Surface's pricing and international availability as well as know how they will market Surface going forward (the introduction was pretty good). Technically, Surface is a superior device, no doubt on that, and because of this it has the potential to supersede iPad's sales.

 

Let's hope MS know. I'd wager laptops still sell more though.

Personal usage scenarios? Erm ... I open my notebook. I switch it on. I check my email. I surf. I sometimes (rarely) watch a DVD. I occasionally watch some streamed TV (BBC iPlayer, some IBA). I sometimes listen to streamed radio (BBC 3/4). Can a tablet really improve my personal usage scenario that much? I'm only stating this as this is going to be asked by potential customers.

I think the USB ports are a great advantage. That in itself could be very influential.

"Microsoft’s cover, meanwhile, includes screen protection, but doubles as a full, multi-touch keyboard, effectively turning the device into a notebook. That’s a really nice feature." ~ op cit

Yes, really nice. So why not just buy a conventional notebook for half the price then?

"Apple CEO Tim Cook said in April that 67 million iPads have sold since the device launched in early 2010" ~ op cit

I wonder how many conventional laptops/notebooks/netbooks have been sold since early 2010?

 

Speaking about basic usage scenarios then, all known advantages of tablets apply to Surface - and none of the disadvantages apply (without this "major detail", I wouldn't want Surface too).

Talking only about the advantages of tablets, there are several articles on that. See these ones for some arguments:

- http://www.ehow.com/facts_4886016_what-advantages-tablet-pcs.html
- http://tabletbuyingguide.com/stepguide/tablet-vs-laptop.html

As the ehow's one isn't copyrighted, I will quote it here:

 

The major disadvantage I see with tablets vs notebooks or desktops, especially desktops, is serviceability. I can tear down a desktop and replace individual components and desktop components can be had for pretty decent prices. Notebooks can be serviced but takes a little more to get at the components. To me, I wouldn't touch a tablet with a 10 foot pole when it came to repairing. I can imagine if something goes wrong with a tablet, you will be paying big bucks to get it serviced. That is why I tend to stay away from notebooks where possible and stick to desktops. Ease of service and cheap components makes the desktop my choice. Not to mention the ease of upgrading components.

 

Yes, I agree totally. Which is when I buy another notebook/netbook, although I will always keep a desktop PC, it will be relatively cheap & functional. I think that you have a very good point with any tablet repair as well.

 

Some functionality you get from a tablet, you can't get from other devices. Full desktop or gaming laptop + Surface is the best way to go for my usage scenarios relevant to what we are discussing here.

 

In my experience, even teenagers seem to be able to carry laptops (tucked under the arm or otherwise) as well. My notebook is pretty light. I don't need to weight-train regularly to pick it up or tuck it anywhere. Just how much of an advantage is this weight difference?

I don't know about you, but I type much faster than I can write & my handwriting is barely legible as it is. This kind of reminds me of the voice activation technology on a phone I once owned. If I shouted at it in a crowded pub, with a lot of ambient background noise, it usually wouldn't phone the person who's name I was shouting at it (plus people would look at me as if I was bonkers). Even in a totally quiet environment it took some convincing. On the other hand, I could just press speed dial.

Again, I can't speak for everyone, but virtually all of my presentations (often OpenOffice Impress) are presented on an interactive board. I thought that was the whole point of presenting; i.e. you are presenting to an audience (of sorts). I also don't see how (or lying) on a flat surface necessarily facilitates better presentations. I still really don't see the advantage of a tablet over a laptop in the workplace. I'm pretty sure most of my students would quickly steal lose any 'snap-on' accessories (stands, external keyboards etc) that 'accessorised' any portable device.

Well, I have already elucidated my thoughts on tablet computers in an educational scenario.

Marketing hype & 'lock-in'? More stuff for gullible customers to spend their dosh on? ROTFL

So, do all tablets have lower heat processors & longer battery life than all laptops, notebooks, netbooks etc?

That could actually be some advantage. But surely, a lot of that has to do with the OS anyway, doesn't it?

 

Apparently tablets can't stand upright without a 'stand'. My notebook has the functionality of the screen being able to stand upright merely by being opened.
I find that very useful & functional. It doesn't actually need a stand. That's ergonomic if you ask me.

 

Well, the economy in the U.S. isn't so hot. Is a family that is having a tough time getting buy going to buy their child a tablet with a tiny screen for school or going with the more practical "homework" notebook with a 15 or 17 inch screen? I wager they go with a notebook. I doubt they would have a budget for a $500 or $800 tablet. Good notebooks around here can be had for $350 to $400.

It is going to interesting to see how "ordinary" people are going to view this "Hybrid" tablet with a keyboard.

Edit: I am not that familiar with the Ipad, but isn't it used mostly for pulling entertainment off the web?

 

True. That's one of the reasons why I like Surface so much: it comes with a native, nicely integrated kickstand!

I would prefer Surface for such tasks. I can think about a lot of possibilities where it is more useful.

 

I think it's very relevant. I don't want to go to school with a big gaming laptop, for example. It just doesn't make sense. A netbook or a smaller notebook would be a waste of money when Surface can add just the same features + specific tablet features.

Let's also not forget about resistance: Surface has a magnesium case which was shown to be very resistant. In front of reporters, "Microsoft dropped a little bit of water on to the tablet and the water balled up and rolled right off. Microsoft said that it will handle grubby fingers with ease and apparently even tested it with ketchup and mustard."

Surface also has a new and improved version of the Gorilla Glass, a series of aluminosilicate sheet glass engineered specifically to be thin, light and and most important IMO: damage-resistant too.

You would appreciate Surface's cover then, as the the cover comes with an accelerometer, so it can measure the force of each finger and the keyboard samples 10x faster than any actual keyboard.

This is related to beauty. If you were going to show something in the screen to a friend standing near you, what device would give a better impression? A tablet such as Surface or iPad with those astonishing Clear Type Full HD or Retina Display touchscreens, respectively, or a relatively cheap notebook/netbook? You may have very bad tastes if you say that notebooks/netbooks look better, lol.

I would prefer to go to the college with Surface any time. Big laptops just don't fit in better.

Yeah. You replied to something that will be a moot point when Windows 8 becomes broadly available (at least for the Microsoft "ecosystem", of course).

Probably. Surface surely has.

True. Windows 8/RT is probably better suited to achieve this than its competitors - and Surface comes with it.

 

Yeah ... sounds really physically stable.

 

I wasn't making myself clear, sorry, I was thinking particularly of machines owned by an institution & used by students (& staff). Our Lenovo ThinkPads would be hard to beat for sheer durability IMO. ThinkPads have survived outer space (have been used on the ISS). So they have relatively easily survived problem teens & special needs students. Those Lenovo's are as indestructible as most laptops get. Unless you spend a lot of money on specialist scientific laptops for use in the field. I just don't see Surface (with its detachable bits) being as durable.

Was that Coleman's English Mustard? Because that stuff can melt your face. How about testing it with grubby fingered problem teenagers who may try & use it as a cricket bat?

That's good to know.

I'll bet good money I would prefer a standard keyboard actually connected to a machine. Having said that, it would be easier to replace a Surface's keyboard I suppose. I know what would happen to detachable things in an educational environment. Probably the same thing that happens to traffic cones ...

Aesthetics are subjective. My relatively inexpensive notebook has a pretty good screen. How much better can it be? Marketing however isn't subjective, it is primarily used to convince people that they really need to buy something new. This is how they make money. This now brings me back to my original argument. In a poor global economy, with half a billion people in Europe facing the worst recession in living memory, with even supposedly prospering economies (BRICS?) having internal problems, unemployment, slow growth, endemic poverty & the like, what are most people going to buy? My guess is something that performs relatively well, is reliable proven technology, & affordable. From what I can see, Surface is neither proven or particularly affordable.

But laptops don't need to be big to be viable.

Microsoft ecosystems or no, lock-in & marketing are merely ways to separate people from their money.

A small advantage for a large unit price?

I'm not disagreeing that Win 8 has a lot of improvements over Win 7, I should imagine there are many. Unfortunately, the hybridised tablet/desktop combination is not to the taste of a significant number of people.

 

Still, Surface's touchscreen features two digitizers instead of a single one like most tablets. At the event live they said it best by stating, “This surface has two digitizers. One for touch, one for digital ink.” All stylus or pen input is converted into digital ink and the new Surface tablet is extremely responsive and accurate. The distance between the screen (digitizer) and the stylus is only .7mm thick, and allows for it to be highly accurate, making you feel like the ballpoint of a pen is actually writing on the “surface”. Surface will see the proximity of a stylus and stop recognizing hand inputs.

Students may really appreciate such features that aren't usually available in notebooks/netbooks..

lmao, that's very extreme. Teenager using it as a cricket bat = teenager wanting to intentionally break it. You can't stop that without some control on the behavior of the teenager, lol.

But if you really prefer a "standard keyboard" despite its shortcomings, Surface can help you with the Type Cover. It connects to the Surface in the same way, but provides a tactile keyboard with touchpad. The Type Cover is 5 millimetres. And for the style-sensitive among us, they'll come in a variety of colours, including black, pink, red and blue.

I would have to know the exact model to describe how much better it can be.

People is having generally good experiences with tablets that make them desirable devices. If not, sales of these devices wouldn't being experimenting such massive boosts every year. About "affordable", you are just as in the dark as me - we don't know details about the planned pricing of Surface.

They still didn't disclose the pricing details of Surface.

They are tying to integrate the offers as much as possible.

The desktop mode and Start8 are available for those who don't like the improved interface that makes the touchscreen input method a real possibility.

 

Especially if those features are detachable. Because things like styluses can then be rammed into places or sold to people outside of the college perhaps.

Well, I may have been exaggerating a bit. Either way, teaching students with special needs & behavioural problems in a deprived inner city area has convinced me to believe anything can happen.

It sounds good in theory & marketing spiel, but so does everything. I'm a tad cynical when people try to sell me stuff I don't really need.

You're not getting this. Most people are content with a decent picture/display on their screen. Only die-hards will spend a lot of extra dosh on an expensive screen. A car will get you from point 'a' to point 'b', be it a Bentley or a Skoda.

There was an increase in European sales of Bugatti cars recently. It's not a very good indicator of what most people are buying automobile-wise though is it?

I wonder why?

 

i just don't get these tablets thing at all.
you can get a decent laptop for cheaper than a tablet.

the tablet has touch screen, but beside that?

 

The nice thing about a tablet is it's size and light weight etc. But when you start adding a kick stand and keyboard, then it just becomes a cheap imitation of a laptop and defeats the whole purpose of being a tablet IMO.

I like tablets though. If I could get one that allowed me to put my files on it (usb port) and did everything I needed, then I'd be all over it. I think that'll probably happen soon..

 

Please stop it. Greece implodes atm, the >trillion euro spent sofar hasn avoided a EU collapse sofar. Spain and Italy can still drag down the continent. Those Wiki percentages aren't arguments to claim any different. But let's argue Surface.

With a price range of $600 to $1,500 (Ultrabookish) it seems likely, the Pro will cost much more. Then again, MS is aiming for a completely new tablet user. who likes a quadcore CPU to perform traditional 'heavy duty' tasks on a tablet with a sleeve-keyboard.
A different market share (if not new) then that of leisure tablet consumers.

Yep.

Huh? Sinofsky has been studying 'Method Acting'? The sighs, raised eyebrows, the voice breaking.
Intentional, my backside.

 

These things make Surface actually much more usable. The kickstand doesn't add anything to the size and is invisible when you're not using it. The keyboards are pretty advanced covers that are attached via magnetic connection whenever you want. Surface's design is definitely not a cheap imitation of anything, but a great improvement, a step in the right direction toward greater usability. I recommend you to watch the videos demonstrating how it can be actually used. If you are genuinely interested in tech, you'll surely be impressed.

 

Seems a useless discussion, sorry to say. Will it be successful or not, time still tell you soon.
If you like it, it's ok, if you don't like it, still it's ok I think.
Let's wait and see.