Independent Restore Imaging

I can confirm, in order to get a full evaluation version of SP and D/L ISO image
to create a recovery CD, Peter's link is the only way to get it ( I agree it is a bit misleading from Storagecraft, but they seem to care only about corporate customers).

 

It asks "How many employees do you have at your organization?" etc

If you "Click Here" you get the exe, not the iso.

 

That would only be useful for a person, if they were intending on creating an image and restoring it within 30 days. A user can't use this to restore their image in an emergency, after the 30 days pass. Or am I missing something here? You did say that the Recovery Environment that comes with the evaluation is also for 30 days, right?

 

Isn't this the point of a trial, to test the software and see if you want to purchase it? 30 days seems more than adequate for that.

Oh I get it, you're expecting to be able to use it for free.

 

That's all about testing the full SP,including HIR and whatever within 30 days,i guess for most of us its plenty of time to get the picture if it fit your needs or not.

What me really set up most is that you make definite statements such as '' you can't get the recovery environments without a license key '' and '' the evaluation version is only for enterprises '', what turn out to be misleading statements on your end.
Most people with a bit of conscious left would apologize for that !!!!?!!!

I guess you will peruse over my posts to find any contradictions or misleading statement done by me,and yes i made one in that i said that in order to do HIR,SP has to be installed on the target disk which i believe now this was wrong and sorry for that.

 

The reason to ask for a full evaluation (being able to create a recovery CD) is to test restoring successfully an image, what other reasons would anybody have? perhaps for some even testing HIR. Any imaging application will perform a backup without any problems, it remains to be seen if the restore eventually works.

 

Your missing what I am saying. I was saying that in order to use the HIR feature using your Recovery Environment disc(which you get when you purchase SP), you can get away with just installing the trial on the desktop that your are creating the image of.

The reason I am saying that you don't have to input your key into the trial that you would put on the desktop, is because the SP key is limited to being used one machine per key. My point is that if this was a person in a real life situation backing up their machine with SP(not testing it out), it would be a good idea for them to install SP onto that machine prior to backing it up. But they don't have to waste their key on that specific machine. They can just install the trial, and then run a backup from the Recovery Environment(which came with their key). Then later on when the machine dies, and they need to restore to another machine, they will be able to do this with HIR and their boot disc. All this while not actually having wasted your key on the other machine.

This was the point that I was trying to convey. I was not trying to make anyone look bad or wrong, and I am sorry if you interpreted what I said that way. That was not my intention at all. All of these long posts I have made to help or teach people, the proper way of using SP's HIR, as well as what I think would be the best way for them to use it(for their benefit). Also, you did not have to apologize for saying something incorrect originally. I am not here to make everybody think that I am right(despite the quote in my sig....that quote is a joke)

Well I stand with those statements that I made, as I believe they are true. The RE that comes with the evaluation according to Peter lasts for 30 days(I don't know personally because I have not tried it). You won't be able to restore an image that you made with it after that. Sure that's not a problem if your just testing the software. But my explanations have been aimed at people who would use this software in real life, as their backup solution. And their site does say that the evaluation is for enterprises. I don't see how I am misleading there. Obviously a person can pretend to be an enterprise and input info in the form to get a copy for themselves. That would probably work, I don't doubt that. If you just want to test the software's HIR feature, then go ahead and do that. If your gonna use it to keep actual backups of your system for a rainy day, then this doesn't work. I don't understand why I'm being made out to be a bad person here. I am just trying to get the explanations right, and help people. I'm not being hostile towards anybody. I don't see why you think I owe an apology.

And the reason I corrected your source disk/target disk statement, is because you said that statement shortly after I had finished explaining this issue in another post. I corrected you so as to not get newer users confused on that subject, and to un-confuse you. This was not at all to make you look bad. I was only trying to help. As I said I am just trying to get the explanations right so people that are learning will understand. There's no reason to get upset over this.

 

EDIT: sorry for the double post. mods, please delete this if possible.

 

Based on the fact that the SP Recovery Environment Boot CD doesn't require the desktop installation to be activated for HIR usage, I don't see anything wrong with a user doing it this way. The user doesn't have to modify any files or registry keys to do this, and StorageCraft doesn't prohibit anybody from doing this as far as I know. I've even seen posts about using HIR this way in the ShadowProtect forums. No negative comments about it were posted there by moderators or developers.

I see your point on how this strategy for using HIR is flawed, because some people will want to make new backup images frequently. Some people install/uninstall different software on a regular basis, and some people add/change data frequently. They wouldn't be able to make frequent HIR capable images after the 30 days, unless they input their key to activate SP Desktop.

My strategy could work though for users who keep there OS/Apps & their Data on separate partitions or separate hard drives, and they do not make major changes to their OS frequently. A user could install their OS and all the applications(and configure their system) that they will be using regularly, and then install the trial of SP Desktop on this partition. Then the user could use the boot CD to make an image of the system. This will allow them to have an HIR capable image of their clean & fully configured OS. If their hardware fails, they'll be able to restore this to new hardware, and they will still have their computer configured how they want it. There obviously would have been at least some minor changes in this time period or a few new apps installed. These could be re-installed or re-done after re-imaging. Since the data is on a separate partition, it could be backed up on a regular basis beyond the 30 day trial, by using the Recovery Environment Boot CD. The Data partition backups will not need to be HIR capable, so an installation of SP does not need to be present inside the data image. This is one way to do it, but it obviously won't be the ideal way for every user.

Also I'd like to make a note that, it is not true that ShadowProtect Desktop can be used on one single machine. I did say this earlier and it is not completely true. SP Desktop can be used on one machine at a time. You can transfer your license to another machine if necessary, but there is a limit to how many times you can do this.

As I mentioned earlier, I have my own license so I did not try filling out the evaluation form. I read through the page and made an assumption based on what I saw. I did not notice that applicants had the option of choosing to show that they are home users and not enterprises.

 

This is simply incorrect. Likely a misunderstanding.

Let me provide an official explanation:

ShadowProtect Desktop, Server, and SBS Editions fully supports HIR restores of backup images to completely blank (such as new) hard disks, without the need to install anything on the hard disk prior to the restore of the image.

The only limitation is that if you are using HIR as part of the restore, then the backup image that you are restoring must be a backup of an operating system volume on which ShadowProtect (Desktop, Server, or SBS Edition) was installed when the backup image was created.

After the restore of an image, if the user elected (in the restore wizard) to use HIR, then the HIR patching/reconfiguration operation will occur. The HIR patching code will only work if the target volume contains an installation of ShadowProtect. The key here is to realize that the HIR operation takes place after the image has actually been fully restored, at which point all of the restore file content are accessible (HIR is essentially a post-restore operation).

Now, HIR can also be used stand-alone (without any restore operation at all). You can just point it at an OS volume that's not booting and reconfigure it to boot on the current hardware. When HIR is used in a stand-alone (independent of the restore) fashion, it does require that ShadowProtect is installed on the target volume. It's statements like this that likely caused your confusion, and more likely than not, I'm probably the culprit for such statements (as I'm fairly active on the StorageCraft forums). I'm very sorry to have confused you.

Finally, this limitation of HIR, requiring ShadowProtect to be installed, is not present in the ShadowProtect IT Edition.

 

Nice clarification ( although, that is what I had always understood: been a little confused lately)
Nice manners too.

LOL, thats just so outright tantalising ( as it always has been .)
Regards

 

Thanks for reiterating what I was explaining in some of my earlier posts. My long explanations can be hard to follow sometimes, so I try to be as descriptive as I can. You've made the subject much simpler and easier to understand, than I could've.

 

Well, I probably am responsible for creating some of this confusion, so I felt obligated to do what I could to help clear it up. Sorry guys.

 

I think I might have settled it. I'm going to give DriveSnapshot another shot. If Brian K is correct, and all that is needed are the appropriate disk drivers for an image to at least boot to new hardware, then I think I'll be okay. The following is from the DS website:

It sounds like this is different that the Active @ method, where the drivers are ditched as soon as the PE session ends and more along the lines of what the TeraByte OS Deployment Tool Suite. Right?

Anyway, the new RC of DriveSnapshot is simply amazing. Good things to come....

 

If the processor brand is different (AMD, Intel) or the HAL is different, you have to deal with that too.

 

Care to elaborate a bit more in that? Also, and info on the new TeraByte OS Deployment Tool Suite Pro Would be nice. I'd like to integrate the scripts I'll need on my flash so I'll be ready when and if I need them.

 

The tool starts with the options of ...

Physical Drive
Virtual Drive

Under Physical Drive are....

Choose your OS (if you have a multi-boot)

Then....
Remove installed drivers (...do this if you have to and start again)
Install drivers
Set CPU type (...Intel or AMD)
Change HAL (...Single or multi-processor computer. The various HALs are usually in your OS)
Services Control (...you can enable or disable services)
Exit

Under Install drivers...

Install a specific driver (...you need to provide the AHCI drivers)
Install default IDE drivers



The tool is included on your IFL CD. It is present in a TBOSDT boot disk you create with makedisk.exe.

 

They have improved it a lot. The TBOSSYS is very cool. But they haven't idiot-proofed it yet, at least not for this idiot. I have a couple questions, if you'd indulge me:

1. I'm trying to create a bat file that will allow me to run TBOSSYS from my flash drive (inside a PE). But I don't know how to do that because the drive letter associated to the flash might change.

(Flash)\Drivers\Migrate\tbosdtw.exe osdtool.tbs

2. I noticed that not all mass storage drivers are listed. What happens if I need to install drivers that aren't listed, e.g. SATA?

3. I know very little about the HAL. I know that is stands for Hardware Abstraction Layer and that it is intended to prevent software from directly effecting hardware. I know that it's part of the boot configuration (not boot.ini). I'm assuming that osdtool.tbs need to be run after the image has been restored to the new drive (on the new system). Does every system have a <windows root>\system32\hal.dll? Would it be advisable to keep this on the flash as well, just in case?

 

n8,

I'll have to think about the batch file.

But try this. Put the TBOSDT "win" folder on your flash drive. Put osdtool.tbs in the win folder.

In your PE make a note of the USB flash drive letter. Say it is G:

Double click tbosdtw.exe in the win folder. The prompt may be from some weird folder such as system32 but that doesn't matter. Do this..

G: (and press Enter)
CD win (and press Enter)
runtbs osdtool.tbs (and press Enter)

Now you are in the tool's gui.

You have to provide your own AHCI/SATA drivers. Have them on the flash drive. The tool lets you browse to the drivers and select the .inf.

If you have installed a Service Pack (WinXP) you will have about 6 HALs in C:\WINDOWS\servicepackfiles\i386 The tool finds these automatically. If you don't have the HALs on your HD put them on your flash drive. They can be installed manually.

Don't bother with that download. You need all 6 HALs.

Just to make it confusing, all the HALs (different names) will be called hal.dll when they are installed into C:\WINDOWS\system32.

 

Thanks to this site that doesn't seem like it will be very difficult. I've already downloaded chipset and mass storage driver pack for the x64 architecture and stuck them on my flash. But how will I know which driver I'll need to use when I'm ready to use it? The harddisk is different than the controller after all.

Those two statements confuse me a little. Where should I look to grab HAL if it is not where it is supposed to be?

Just preparing for the worst...while I can.

 

You will need to find this info from the web. The computer manufacturer should publish which storage controller is present. Otherwise just try the latest drivers from Intel etc.

That download only contains one HAL. ? which one.

Do you have C:\WINDOWS\servicepackfiles\i386 with the 6 HALs?

To copy a HAL (say you want halmacpi.dll) manually using TBOSDT (not the tool) would be

mount 0: 0 0x01
copy G:\halmacpi.dll 0:\windows\system32\hal.dll

But the chances are good that you won't have to use a different HAL anyway.

(The symptom of a wrong HAL is a black screen shortly after Windows starts to boot.)

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309283

 

Are you sure that Windows 7 uses the HAL? It was my understanding that there is only one version of HAL for x64 systems; HAL.dll located in the c:\windows\system32 directory. Shuold I back that up since I will no longer ever be going back to 32-bit?

 

I don't know. But each of the HALs is called hal.dll when it is copied to the System32 folder. I'll check my 64 bit Win7.

Edit.. The hal.dll in my 64 bit Win7 is 257 kb in size. I don't know which one it is. What size is your hal.dll?
My 32 bit Win7 has a hal.dll of 191 kb. It is halmacpi.dll.

If there is only one hal.dll for Win7 64 bit then it doesn't need to be backed up. But I don't know if there is only one.