In what way is Linux superior to Vista?

Discussion in 'all things UNIX' started by Eice, Feb 26, 2009.

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  1. lewmur

    lewmur Registered Member

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    Nobody said the MS stooges were "supremely evil." Just that they were well paid flunkies lacking integrity.
     
  2. chronomatic

    chronomatic Registered Member

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    No, you didn't just go there. :rolleyes:

    I guess you have never heard of the LSM or SELinux or AppArmor or PaX or exec-shield. Even if we ignore all of those modules, the standard UNIX DAC is superior to NT's. Microsoft only recently came to the table with access controls of any kind, whereas Unix has been doing it since the 70's. I find the UNIX DAC far more useful than NT's mere "user/admin" garbage. With UNIX one can specify permissions for each individual file and directory. With Windows it is basically "user or admin" and if one tries to run as a limited user in Windows, you will see that most apps simply wont work.

    And NT has a wider range of supported processors? :eek: Please tell me you jest. Look here for the facts.

    Again, I can't help but think you are trolling for kicks and grins. There is no way you believe anything you say.
     
  3. chronomatic

    chronomatic Registered Member

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    Yeah, and this reminds me of what M$ did to help with the security of Windows. M$ hired a well known GNU/Linux security expert Crispin Cowan. Cowan, if you don't know, is the guy responsible for AppArmor and StackGuard on Linux.

    The mere fact M$ hires a Linux guy to work on its core security team shows a concession that M$ knows its security isn't up to snuff.
     
  4. Arup

    Arup Guest

    Correct me if I am wrong, wasn't MS running their Hotmail servers on Free BSD? If that is the case, goes to show their confidence or rather lack of it.
     
  5. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    They used to but not anymore.
     
  6. Arup

    Arup Guest


    Yep thought so, kind of contradiction in a way when they try and push their own server apps.
     
  7. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    Hmm maybe not.
    maybe they just kept it on the platform it was for awhile then migrated it when they could.

    btw does anyone here know that apple use solaris on their own servers?
    I guess its because apple only sell one server. if apple sold bigger servers do you think they would run OSX on their own servers?
     
  8. Arup

    Arup Guest

    Apple's core is Unix so it wouldn't take them much effort to port it to a server OS.
     
  9. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    well its already a server OS its just about scalability so it can run on apple's main servers.
    on a linux note I wonder how many people relise they use linux everyday?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2009
  10. wj32

    wj32 Developer

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    I finished this conversation a long time ago with Arup, but I'll continue with you :)

    Yes I have heard of them. I'm talking about the core kernel, not with extra modules. SELinux doesn't even apply to kernel objects anyway. It's true that MS only had mainstream OS access controls since NT, but that doesn't make NT ACLs any less useful. I don't see how standard user-group-world permissions are more useful than ACLs - obviously they're enough for 99.99% use cases, but some people appreciate the extra bit of control. Again, we have SELinux, so that's no problem at all. I'm just talking about the core kernel here though.

    Exactly :D! MS needs to drop legacy support sometime. It's just broken.

    No, I said that Linux has a wider range of supported processors. Maybe your assumption that I am a troll is distorting your vision :D?

    I can't say this is cheering me up.
     
  11. chronomatic

    chronomatic Registered Member

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    Features of SELinux (from Wikipedia):

    Even though NT and Linux are considered "monolithic" kernels in an academic sense (that is, neither are microkernels), the truth is that Linux is more modular than NT. The LSM (SELinux, etc.) are built into the kernel itself and is not a userspace add-on. Sure, you can turn the module off if you please, but this doesn't mean it is not part of the kernel. With Linux, you have the choice to compile things "monolithically" into the kernel or compile various options as modules.

    Here's a quarter, call someone who cares. :D
     
  12. wj32

    wj32 Developer

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    You are arguing with a straw man here. Even though I ignored several factual inaccuracies in your previous reply, I'm going to address them now. You obviously haven't used NT at all, because you said that NT has a user/admin model, and you implied that NTFS doesn't have ACLs. Wrong. NT has a very flexible user privileges model with ACLs for almost everything (like files). It is UNIX's user/admin model that will be especially vulnerable to social engineering attacks. Obviously almost all users of Windows run as admin, but that decision was made by some stupid non-kernel people at MS.

    You can read more about the dangers of user/root by doing a search on it. Now I'm not saying Windows currently has a better security model, because it doesn't. But the NT kernel allows you to have better privilege separation, unlike with Linux. You can't honestly believe that Linux is better than NT in every single aspect (again go read the article which you haven't read). However, I'm really looking forward to PolicyKit being adopted more because it's really going to mean that user/root will no longer be needed.
     
  13. Arup

    Arup Guest

    As a preferred app for enterprise, in terms of security considerations, Unix and its variant Linux is the choice and its track record speaks for itself. Which doesn't mean its invincible in any ways, just that its inherent design structure makes it easier to shut it down better than the NT model.
     
  14. wj32

    wj32 Developer

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    Absolutely. I'm just talking theory here though, not practicalities :).
     
  15. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    Btw if you want to compare linux versis windows you may want to compare it against debian.
    both are released every 2 years.
    debian lenny still uses ext3 as file system and windows 7 still uses ntfs file system.
    im sure someone else can help with whatnew stuff debian lenny has versis what new stuff windows 7 has.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2009
  16. L815

    L815 Guest

    I have an Intel integrated graphics on my laptop, the drivers from hardy and up have been the worst yet.

    I can't watch any video or flash without tearing all too frequently.

    Aero on the other hand, displays everything fine.


    But hope is not lost... there is news about some rewrites for improved graphics, which I hope will soon be implemented :D
     
  17. Arup

    Arup Guest


    Presuming you are using Jaunty,enable uxa under device in xorg and check the results, worked out fine with my G31 chipset laptop. I can watch flash vids full screen as well as Google Earth works fine, all this with compiz enabled.
     
  18. L815

    L815 Guest

    Hmm I'll try it tonight when I get home. Thanks for the tip!

    PS: Does it matter if it's 32 or 64 bit?
     
  19. Arup

    Arup Guest


    uxa is applicable regardless of x32 or x64 architecture, its a feature in the newer kernel used in Jaunty.
     
  20. suliman

    suliman Registered Member

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    Well I have tha hardware for Vista and I had no problems what so ever to run Vista, it worked perfectly (as did most of the other windows versions)

    Still I felt a bit restricted in Windows environment. I actually didnt know about it until I gave Ubuntu a fair chance,

    Here is my opinion:

    First of all: The freedom to do whatever I can imagine with the OS.
    I havent read the whole thread but I guess many mentioned the obvious: its free. I guess 99% (I cant now imagine what the last percent would be though) all the software you need is in synaptic - for free.
    If I want to change the look to my liking I dont have to buy software like windowsblinds'n'stuff.
    Not that I worried much about malware in windows since I ran in a limited account, but it is nice not to bother with firewall or antivirus software.
    It is hard to describe the Linux feeling that makes you miss it when your not using it.

    Now that Windows 7 came I naturally installed it. It was really fast and nice and looked good. But still, it was more of the same of what I've been using for 16 years or so. Linux feels so much more fresh.
    I dont know if Linux is superior to Vista. It depends on the user preferences, what he/she is looking for I guess.
    It is much about the feeling I get using Linux.(suddenly I understand what all the mactalibans have been talking about through the years :p )

    The only thing I cant do in Ubuntu is play the games I like. Or maybe I can but it is a little bit too much hassle. There is the only advantage of the windows environment over Linux. But, dual boot solves that.

    I dont even miss legendary software like FirstdefenseISR or Shadowprotect.
    It is a bliss not having to stand on your knees and beg for permission to use the software I've paid for (Shadowprotect) the way I wanted.
     
  21. suliman

    suliman Registered Member

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    I would say that is the hardest thing to do, at least it is for me.
    I cant believe how hard-coded that mindset is in my head.
    I ask questions in Linux forums, and when I get the answer I am a shamed of my self because I couldn't think outside of the box. :oops:
     
  22. Arup

    Arup Guest


    Don't feel bad, we have all gone through that stage including yours truly here, people who defend Windows here forget most of us are ex Windows users and some of us are still using Windows but more and more Linux than Windows. Linux is not superior to Win or Mac, its an alternate choice with far more flexibility and configurability, its free, its growing rapidly, its secure and patched regularly and best of all, it runs light and fast. Considering the fact that most Linux devs are still working for peanuts, its incredible that this system boasts choices of desktops, file systems, codecs, programming compiler, encoder/decoded and some real good programs as well.
     
  23. Ocky

    Ocky Registered Member

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  24. Arup

    Arup Guest

  25. jrmhng

    jrmhng Registered Member

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