Completely agree installing advanced security protection on the majority of novice users system can be worse than having malware, because those advanced products can take control away from them just like what malware does and can cause major system errors. Of coarse a lot of you advanced users fail to understand that. An AV and Windows default firewall is all they need nothing more, if they get infected then it will have to be dealt with after that point. Thanks.
Not true, some programs require administrative rights in order to function. Especially annoying if they startup (without resorting to task scheduler every time). Many of my system/security utilities do, that's why I've set it to elevate without prompting. Whitelisting is unreasonably difficult, therefore creating insecurity by making people disable it.
Correction, you meant to say "is all they want". The need exists to either supplement an AV or replace an AV. How long have AV been around, and how many infections still happen? What those "type" of users want is for something to take care of business for them, so they don't have to learn anything about a subject they dislike. An AV is "auto-magic", well known to them, so they use it. When you put anything else on, usually it doesn't work out. Even the firewall with the OS, what does it do if they are behind a router? Not much compared to an application aware outbound firewall. Same story there too, they don't want to mess with that at all. I whole-heartedly agree, an AV and windows firewall is about all they can will handle, but it by thier choise, not by thier need, IMHO. Sul.
littlebits got right, No correction needed. Sorry but a lot of people just can't get their head around this stuff and it's not that they're stupid or lazy either. I know it's all so easy for you, but then some people just have a knack for it.
For example The Hammer (Avira) and myself (ESET) we use AV's and we don't want to use something else EVEN if we can handle it. It's so simple, only because one can handle it doesn't mean that one want's to use it.
Yes I understand that you are a student. But the developers of the program/s that you would like to use sooooo much are no students. They do this for a living and i'm sure that they would appreciate your support. So next month instead of buying games you buy their software Win 8 "almost" Free interesting, hmmm where have you read about that. FYI. I want to mention that I did use CIS Full between version 3.5 - 3.9 or something, so I have tried the "denny" solution. But it wasn't for me.
Exactly, I use Avast and nothing else but Windows default firewall. Sure I can handle sandboxing, Comodo, Online Armor, virtualization, UAC, etc. Or what ever else you want to throw at me, but what is the point for me using them, when Avast and my own knowledge keeps me malware-free? Too much trouble to mess with and no benefits to myself just unnecessary work. For those advanced users out there, it is much easier to learn what not to do then to have to go through all of these extra security protection methods. An Antivirus and Windows default firewall should be enough protection for advanced users as well since they should know what to do especially if then can understand the concepts of these advanced security protection methods. Think about it, it is more easy to restore a image of your partition or constantly have to deal with these advanced security protection methods on a daily basis? Thanks.
Restoring a image is useful if the system is compromised, but is useless to prevent your data to be stolen meanwhile... an AV may be useless against a new exploit in your browser or a zero day treat that silently sneaks into your system while you're browsing. Even a advanced user can't avoid that: IMHO an Av per si is simply not enough, either you're a newbie or not.
Sooner or later, they will get infected (if they have only an AV and Windows FW)... -When they will be tired of getting infected again and again and -When they will learn with the hard way (i.e. loose their personal data etc.), novice users will realize that more effective Security Apps (e.g. Sandboxing, Imaging etc.) are what they need; not just an AV and Windows FW.
How does a zero day "sneak" into a system, particularly one that's managed by an advanced user, and if it does, how will it transmit data? You've said it best.
I´m talking about a default windows installation, without any hardening or other security tools than a single AV (the most common scenario). If the AV fails the system is taken, no matter if someone is a newbie or an advanced user. A default windows installation + any AV is the minimum that any malware writer knows that he will find.
Except that with the setup I've just defined you can literally install malware and you'll be fine. That's the point. You can do anything ot that cmoputer but it'll all be isolated and virtualized and restricted. Yes, I know. But the vast majority of applications do not require UAC. lol I don't buy games, I have to pay for school. I realize they're providing a product and they deserve money. I just don't believe in 3rd party security to begin with so why would I pay for something that I don't believe should exist? I'd consider it. And win7 was 20 bucks for me an dI know some people got it free.
You two have provided a great example of why I said what I did. Either one of you could use something in addition to an AV, but you don't. That is your choise. You do however have more knowledge than an average user, so your choise of an AV is not really your only defense, is it? But for the normal user, who doesn't know about things other than they have an AV and a Firewall running, and that should keep them safe... they know good and well that almost everyone gets a virus. They also know that there must be ways to become more secure from viruses etc (I have talked to hundreds of people who ask me "how can I stop getting infected?"). Whether then can understand it or not is a moot point. The problem is, they don't want to understand it, because they just don't care about it. Almost everyone who uses a computer is capable of understanding some simplistic ideas that would help them to be more secure. Even something as simple as "don't open strange email" and "don't click on you've won or your infected" buttons can make a difference. But, they simply have better things to spend thier time on than computers. That is fine, not everyone has the same interests, just as it should be. My only point is that an AV alone, with or without a firewall, is not sufficient at all. You will get infected, period. It isn't IF but WHEN. If you don't, it is because you have educated yourself. AV work on what they know about. They cannot know about everything. If you don't update them, every day they become less effective. An AV is simply not the answer to todays threats, by itself. It must be augmented if you want to stay problem free (augmenting could be user account, alternate browser, browser settings, other 3rd party software, OS policies/tweaks and knowledge, etc etc). People simply choose to remain deaf/blind/dumb. And as I said, for those that choose this road (and don't have more knowledge like the two of you do), an AV is likely thier only real choise, as all other options require more of them. I also find it odd that if people are not interested in educating themselves, and just want to use an AV and get on with it, then why are most of the AV now moving into suites with all sorts of protections? These AV suites require a lot more user interaction, or at least a user has to learn what it is doing if something isn't working as they expect. The more automatic they become, to keep the user from having to answer prompts, the more likely they flag something as bad that is actually good. To me, they are modular HIPS. For average users, it seems they will be forced to answer prompts more and more, which is what they don't need because they don't know how to answer them. Sul.
Antivirus + Firewall + HIPS (Classic + BB or one of those). No sandbox with that i feel it's more than enough plus Windows tweaks/patches such as EMET, Disabling Auto run, SRP etc.
"How would you protect your home PC:" Keep it inside the box or; Use Linux as the main operating system, and Windows only when you absolutely have no other choice... period. Windows users are great "human shields"!
Well, for a lot of users here using an phalanx of security programs and tweaks is a hobby and there is nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do. It's kind of like getting together with your buddies to work on your cars and you want to be able to justify your time as well spent. A lot of really useful suggestions and info can come from such people as long as there is no hint of preaching. As for me and what I use see my sig.
Avast is more invasive than anything I use haha uses way more resources than my entire security setup combined and provides more advanced and comprehensive protection. I don't really see my security when I'm not testing it. Having to reimage would be horrible considering that I'd have to do it constantly to have a valid image and it takes forever. I apologize for the preaching =p
Some people like apples and other people oranges, and still others a whole fruit basket. Nothing wrong with that. The same setup on 2 different but comparable systems can produce different effects. On littlebits Avast is as light as your setup is on yours I'm sure.
From time to time we all see a member who is taking himself (or herself) a little too seriously. It seems to follow, too, that this behavior is always very clear to everyone except the guilty party... which tends to add to the hilarity of it all. I like The Hammer's comparison of users to buddies who work on cars together. I've often felt that was true... particularly when someone refers to their computer as their "rig" and proceeds to list all components, while I wait breathlessly to hear what kind of carburetor and exhaust headers it has.
Avast is one of the lightest AV's available, I use it on all 4 of my systems. The only AV that was lighter was Avira Free without the WebGuard. By looking at your security setup, you must be a target for malware attacks or just paranoid. Looks kind of like my setup about 8 years ago when I wasn't as educated as I am now. Since I never get malware infections, I don't need comprehensive protection. I took down my solid steel walls, bullet proof vests, security alarms, etc. since I learned how to avoid malware and how to restore a image just in case it is needed. Think about it, do you walk around everywhere wearing a bullet proof vest when nobody is shooting at you? but if you take off that vest, then someone could shoot you then right? so just wear it all the time is the solution? I want to be comfortable, so that vest is coming off, if I get shot then I will deal with it. I'm aware that there are 0-day malware and browser vulnerabilities etc, but malware just don't jump out and attack you, you will have to do something to cause that. So far this works perfect for myself, if for some reason that it wasn't working, then I would try something else. I don't try to tell others how to secure their systems, if they want advice then I will let them know what would might work for them individually. So if someone wants to use over 100 different security products to secure their system, then let it be. Of coarse I feel if someone has the knowledge to learn how to use that many security products, it might be much easier educate them on what not to do because they won't need all of the extras. Thanks. Thanks.
For a forum with so many knowledgeable users,I sure see alotta paranoid people,wow! Home PC - Returnil + on demand scanner,thats it! Keep it simple!
I've gone without any antivirus protection before. And then I asked myself "What's the point? and I went ahead and found the lightest free and effective solution that I could. You can try to avoid malware, but that's silly. I'd much rather set my computer to be secure and forget about it and not care what sites I visit knowing that it won't matter whether or not they're secure. The fact is that plenty of legitimate sites can be infected. There's times where you simply can't avoid the malware and common sense has nothing to do with it. Am I a target? No. Could I get away with no protection? Quite possibly, at least for a while. But why would I? The resources it costs to secure your computer can be very low. My point about Avast is that for the protection it provides it's resource intensive. It's still an antivirus.
Malware is usually the last concern on my mind no matter what site I visit. Even if I do happen to stumble upon an infected site that somehow manages to breech my imposing defences, my spidey senses will most surely kick in and I can effortlessly restore a recent ShadowProtect image, and all will be good and nice again
I think paranoia plays a role, but I think it is more to do with many here liking the software - they are addicted I have a wee bit of paranoia still flowing through my veins. I second and third guess things a lot. Manually removing viruses over the years gives me a lot of "cushion" in the paranoia/fear department (I used to make pretty good side income doing this. At one point I could do it 7 days a week if I wanted to). I don't think there is much that couldn't be fixed. Using images builds on that, because if I can't easily fix it, I can restore an image. Understanding what is running and why builds on it even more. Taking the time to learn what services are a long time ago is invaluable. It lets me know what is running, why it is running, and what to look for that should not be running. Understanding what ports should be open is another thing that helps. Once again, knowing what typically is used, and what to look for makes it easy to spot strange happenings. But the major role in my life with computer security has been what I don't do. My habits. How and where I store sensitive data. What I do online, and how I go about making sure sensitive activities are given extra precautions. I have not lost my paranoia about what might happen, I have learned the "how and why" well enough to take a different route than I used to. In the old days I would have used a lot of software (I was a junkie ) to control this or stop that, and I wanted to know what was happening all of the time. Over time I found how to change what I do, and it had the same effect. Sul.
But i'm sure you must get some money over after paying for school. So you don't think that they should exist, but you still want to use their software wich you think are awesome Well if the OS would have been perfect in terms of security they wouldn't even need to exist. But it's not, so here they are offering their services. Yes I think you should I guess that must have been a "deal" on an online/local store or something.
