HDMS 2012 Won't Restore Verified Good Archive Help!

Discussion in 'Paragon Drive Backup Product Line' started by deVries, Feb 15, 2013.

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  1. deVries
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    deVries Registered Member

    Just recently made an archive copy of D drive just in case... I verified the archive... good. It was not made in the 4gig pieces but in one giant 155gb file... It was showing in the database of archives... after I completed it & verified it.

    Then I may have copied the archive from the server to another HD... can't remember... but now that same referenced database archive won't open, I guess, since it can't find the source. So, I try to refresh the database to show only available archives & the one I had done where 'there' was just disappears by not listing it anymore.

    Next, I point it to add the known good archive back into the database with the HD directly connected to the computer by USB 3... yet it will not load/add it as a database archive!!! I'm trying to "export" it to another drive, but I think all that means is another word for COPY it to the folder I point it to. Yeah, it's exporting/copying the archive, BUT I need to restore the darn thing!!! This is the 2nd time I've had problems restoring archives this month. The 1st archive was made with HDMS 2011 inside a "protected capsule", but it only restored with the current 2012 version!

    Well, what's the problem here with 2012 "restoring" to itselfo_O
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  2. deVries
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    deVries Registered Member

    I do remember now that I copied this archive off the server & onto a HD. Then I connected it to the computer that had this data, lost it, and needed its restore.

    One really weird thing I remember now about copying this archive is I used a program called Terra Copy... it does a CRC check before/after for each file copied... it did flag a CRC error, but checking the file size was an exact match between server & hd copy. I repeated the same copy again and got the same CRC mismatch error! I used explorer too, and it just copies with no problem.

    Anyway, by some freaking stroke of dumb luck I found the archive in a backup folder on the server and pointed HDM to it and it mounted.

    Now, I'm really, really concerned about moving these archives around, since these seem to copy ok in Windows Explorer AND MATCH on file size checks too, but using Terra Copy CRC verification I get an error... I've copied 10s of thousands of files between these same computers/hardware and never got a CRC error before, so I'm wondering if there is something really weird about these HDM archive fileso_O ...not able to copy/move around without issueso_O I did create the archive into one massive file of 155gb, but that is a menu option within HDM to do this instead of 4gb "tiny" DVD chunks.

    What's going on here guys?
  3. seekforever
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    seekforever Registered Member

    I have done the database song and dance trying to get it to put an archive into it without success. Personally, and this may cloud my perspective, I hate databases for this function and if the archive I want isn't listed, I change to the File View and use the archive via that method.

    I use Teracopy and it works quite well. However, I do have one older USB3 3.5" drive that seems to gives CRC errors sometimes and it won't even connect on another machine with the same add-in USB3 card. My 2.5" USB3 My Passport drives all work flawlessly. So you may have a similar issue or not.

    You can try to determine if the Teracopy error is real. Do a Paragon verify on the archive in the new location. It does a similar check to the CRC check but using its internal checksum system which is likely more stringent than the CRC check. If Paragon is happy then it should be able to do a restore OK.

    If Paragon's verify fails then do a chkdsk /r on the drive holding the archive because it may be telling you a sector is bad. Do not rely on filesizes being the same as an indication of a good copy. Windows Explorer and most programs that write files just assume they were written correctly. It is on reading that the errors are found by the disk hardware's CRC check.

    There is nothing magic about a Paragon archive file other than they tend to be large. The larger the file the greater the chance something may go wrong in a copy process. There is also the possibiltiy that some extra demands are put on the hardware that normally don't happen with smaller file copies and it gets the occasional error.
  4. deVries
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    deVries Registered Member

    I mapped the archive folder so I could look at it using the upper right "file view", which I'm guessing this is what you mean tooo_O When I open the .pbf file, it pops open the name I gave the archive in the file list.

    It won't "export" (HDM Export Command "fails") to a working raid with space enough or to the usb drive, which by also using Terra Copy to it with thousands of files transferred with zero crc issues only gets the one CRC error on the one large archive file. It does the same CRC error if copying to the raid drive too, so I think something else is going ono_O The archive tested/verified good on the server, when I created it there less than 10 days ago.

    Well, it doesn't load into HDM to even do the archive check if I've moved/copied it using 2 different destination storage systems: one working raid or to the hard drive connected by USB.

    I assume it had to have been written originally correctly, since I did the verify command on the original archive when created. I also used the check box to add "verification/recovery info" into the archive to achieve restores without issues.

    I do have another computer using HDM, and it allowed me to open the archive on the server. As soon as that happened, I immediately started a restore "expand the data" from the archive on the server to a working raid. It seems to be completing it, though I have another 8+ hours of wait time to see any final results.

    My issue is that I do not want to just be able to restore the original archive on or from the server. I do need to copy it off usually to the computer that lost the data, and then expand it "there". (Had I not had folder duplication turned on, and knew where to find the archive under the hood that was deleted from the shared folder... that archive would have been vanished toast, since I had already assumed it copied off the server ok.)

    Using Terra Copy with CRC check only gets the one error on the archive, but not on the thousands of other files copied in the same instance.

    Something weird is going on with that one file imo...

    If/when the restore completes using the other computer, then I will immediately run another archive check on the server archive file from there. If successful I will try exporting it within HDM and also try Terra Copy crc check too. Will report back my findings...

    Thanks for your suggestions and help... I really appreciate any ideas or solutions you or someone else can suggest...
  5. seekforever
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    seekforever Registered Member

    No, I'm referring to Switch to File View under the window in the Browse for Archive Window in the Verify or Restore wizard.

    The add "verification/recovery info into the archive to achieve restores without issues" is a mystery to me. My guess is that it puts in the checksum data when enabled and saves a bit of time by not doing it if disabled. I confirmed with Paragon support this is not error-correcting code being added and if it is just the checksums it isn't going to help unless you do a verify.

    Hope it works or at least provides a clue.

    I do similar in copying some archive files off its original location to a USB drive for off-line storage. I also have used Teracopy and apart from the USB3 drive having a problem, it has always worked. However, I hate giant files and mine tend to be in 4GB pieces which is manageable for my archive sizes although I have done some 35GB files. I only image my C drive (all my data is elsewhere and backed up differently) so my archives aren't giant-size.

    I am not clear if you did a Paragon Verify on the copy. I understand the original was verified but was the copy that you are trying to use?

    [QUOTE}If/when the restore completes using the other computer, then I will immediately run another archive check on the server archive file from there. If successful I will try exporting it within HDM and also try Terra Copy crc check too. Will report back my findings...

    Thanks for your suggestions and help... I really appreciate any ideas or solutions you or someone else can suggest...[/QUOTE]
    Good luck, I should mention that I am using Backup and Recovery 12 paid version not HDMS but the concepts discussed in this thread should be the same.
  6. deVries
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    deVries Registered Member

    WhollyCow Batman! You know another way to get to this data that works with the original archive on the server!!! Does this mean there is a serious bug in HDM from the main Archive viewing tab or default wizard sequence using Restore tooo_O

    I can't load or put it in the database from that main screen/tab made just for archives!!! But, I can do it from your suggested access point IF I select only that link within the wizard restore not using its default settings... blows my mind here... a bit toooo finicky to get me-data back!!! Doesn't even work within that restore wizard *unless* I use the alternate link. o_O

    Just can't load it to even verify that copy... unless you know another "wizard way" to do it not from the Archive Tab where I can't even load it to verify it.

    I don't see a Verify Wizard anywhereo_O [Edit Update: Ok, duhh, found that off the Wizards Menu in the BU-Utilities submenu, but it's not even loading the original archive on the server now... maybe because the 3rd computer is accessing the same archive to do the restore... I'll have to test this later after the restore & do another archive copy w/Terra Copy too.]

    Right now, I'm having to use 3 computers (including server) just to get to that troublesome archive and be restored & expanded off the server back onto original location... it looks like this is 18-24hrs of restore time to do this... I just can't afford that kind of time/resources tied-up, so I really need to be able to reliably copy off the archive directly w/Terra Copy USB HD or network copy it back and expand it just using one computer. Restore over the network is VERY slow and ties-up the two computers used only for minimal other tasks during the restore to prevent errors or crashing HDM.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  7. deVries
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    deVries Registered Member

    Update: The server archive seemed to restore ok, but it took over 18hrs to do it. Only takes about 20min to copy the same archive to the computer though, so that's why I'd prefer to expand the archive on the 'puter itself.

    Since the 3rd computer verified & restored the data, I copied the server archive onto it instead of using the original 'puter that failed to load it initially. I did get it to load later though after using your link in the restore wizard.

    Now, from the successful "network restore" 3rd 'puter I'm doing a restore into that same USB 3 HD I moved there to see if it succeeds from that location instead of over the network or using the original 'puter.

    Will update later...
  8. deVries
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    deVries Registered Member

    Update: The archive file copied over from the server to the 3rd 'puter fine. Archive 'copy' verified good, AND HDM restored/expanded the complete archive onto the USB 3 connected HD. No issues.

    This is a successful workaround to the issues I was having, though I still don't understand why I had problems not loading the known "tested good" archive into the database from the Archive Tab... either from the server "original" or once copied to "origin 'puter" and yet it "loaded to view" by other means of access (restore wizard link) noted in this thread above thanks to "seekforever's" successful help.

    I will test this whole procedure with the original computer that had problems with Terra Copy & crc errors when copying the archive off the server, etc. within a few days and report back my findings.

    There are probable HDM (networking?) issues that prevent the Archive Tab access-archive "load" from working correctly, when I am able to "load view" an archive from another wizard link. Since it works by other means, I'd have to say something is "buggy" with the HDM software in the Archive Tab view/load aspect. Imo. Windows Vista SP2 is on the 'puter I had issues with, and I can't eliminate 'yet' that that 'puter is 'the issue'... I can confirm with Windows 8, the 3rd 'puter, I had complete success using HDM.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  9. deVries
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    deVries Registered Member

    I still think there are "load" the archive issues off the Archive Tab, but there are other ways noted above about how to probably get around this issue maybe every timeo_O

    I can't re-create the same copy issue to test again, since I have to rebuild the server onto another MB/Cpu...

    I will still be using the same hardware on the computer that had the initial problems with restoring the archive, so I can test whether this problem is isolated to that 'puter or just a fluke. Unfortunately, I'm not a "test lab" to resolve this fully... don't restore my data often enough to know with certainty...

    I highly advise anyone to fully test your backups to complete restores if your data is important enough... I've just seen too many issues always seem to crop-up without a tried and true method you *know* you can rely on.
  10. seekforever
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    seekforever Registered Member

    Very good advice and it goes for any backup program ever written.

    I don't want to bore everybody to death with my frequently mentioned method of backup but I'll do it anyway. Others use this method as well.

    I only image my C drive which contains no important data files, they are kept elsewhere. I use SyncBack for my data files and there are other similar programs like Karen's Replicatior etc. These programs keep the files in their native format with the same folder structure as on the source. They are not stored in a proprietary container file where an error can render the entire archive unuseable. I recommend the use of versioning.

    Apart from the above advantage, this method makes it easier to find and restore a data file and is not dependent on having any particular software available. Because the image is so much smaller it encourages image backups before installing software to try, makes the probability of an error less and allows the keeping of more historic images on a backup drive.
  11. SIW2
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    SIW2 Registered Member

    18 hrs ? - seems you may have done a file level restore instead of image restore.
  12. Paragon_Chris
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    Paragon_Chris Paragon Moderator

    Could you clarify what process your going through exactly to try and load the archive into the archive view? This is not an issue I am aware of and I load archives in frequently on many different OS's and versions of the software for testing purposes. I've included a screenshot of the way I load them in, I just click the archive add button, browse the file structure for my archive .pfi file, select it and click add. Are you doing this another way?

    PF341841_1.png

    I currently use HDM Pro at home, and I generally use the P2V function to create a virtual machine from my archive, I then can easily verify the backup by simply booting the archive in a virtual environment on that computer or one of my other computers. I also use this as a great way to continue to access both the computer and the files in case of a disaster or hardware problem with that computer, and after I get it fixed I just do a V2P restore to the computer and it was like I never missed a beat.

    It sounds like your backups are working correctly now and your only issue is adding an archive into the archive view? If you are still having trouble please explain in detail the steps you are taking to add the archive, and provide screen shots if possible.
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