FDISR & Shadow protect

It's probably a good idea to consider more factors than simply interoperability with FD-ISR when you're comparing various image-based backup/disaster-recovery solutions.

One distinct difference between StorageCraft ShadowProtect and Acronis True Image is that the StorageCraft driver used in ShadowProtect is a true VSS provider. You can verify this by installing both products side-by-side and executing the system command "C:\> vssadmin list providers"

Although I don't know the specifics of the bug that was fixed in FDISR, one possible explanation for the interop issue could be attributed to the above fact, in that a backup app that uses VSS (a "VSS Requestor") doesn't necessarily have to specify explicitly which VSS provider (snapshot driver) is to create the snapshot for the requestor. If the requestor doesn't explicitly say, for instance, that it wants the Microsoft system provider to make the snapshot, then it's entirely possible that the StorageCraft provider, or even a hardware VSS provider, will take the snapshot, and if the requestor has made the assumption that the system provider made the snapshot they could have other problems as well, when they interact with the snapshot device object (based upon faulty assumptions). In this case, if the requestor is assuming that the provider will be the Microsoft provider, then it plays in True Image's favor that they have no true VSS provider. It would basically be a fluke.

If anyone from Leapfrog would be willing to comment, I'd be very interested to find out exactly what alteration to FDISR was required to fix the issue it had with ShadowProtect.

 

dude do you really need both shadowprotect and isr? with a little thought isr should handle everything you need

 

Not in case FDISR fails or your harddisk crashes.
Then you need Image Backup (ShadowProtect) to solve that problem easily.

 

chrome_sturmen,
Another reason for having an Image Backup software is :
My personal data is stored on another partition [D:], while FDISR only works for my system partition [C:] and ignores all other partitions.
How am I going to backup my data partition [D:], because FDISR isn't able to do this ?

 

What do you mean by a True VSS provider? I'm hoping someone from Leapfrog will comment on this issue as well. ATI 10 still seems a bit buggy but it doesn't require FDISR to switch to RSS. However the shadowprotect forum is so new can't really determine what issues it has since there are very few posts there.

 

VSS (Volume ShadowCopy Service) is Microsoft's framework for taking clean snapshots. VSS has several components:

1) The VSS Service - This service coordinates all VSS-related activities.
2) VSS Providers - These are the components that create and expose point-in-time snapshots of volumes. They are usually device drivers (for software snapshots) and device drivers with hardware for hardware snapshots. You'll generally only encounter hardware VSS providers in the enterprise. For home users, software-only VSS Providers are what you'll see. Windows XP+ ships with a built-in "System" Provider, volsnap.sys.
3) VSS Writers - These are applications and components which produce data and are also aware of the VSS framework and will honor requests by the VSS Service to "quiesce." Before a snapshot is created (keep in mind that a snapshot is *not* the same thing as a backup - a snapshot is a virtual volume construct which represents a logical volume at a particular point in time, and the establishment of a snapshot generally takes very little time (seconds, or even milliseconds)) the VSS Service will ask any VSS-aware writers (such as Exchange, IIS, SQL Server, Oracle, the Configuration Manager (registry), and other system components) to flush their in-use files to disk and pause for a moment while the snapshot is established.
4) VSS Requestors - These are backup applications that leverage the VSS framework to establish clean snapshots.
5) VSS-compliant file systems - From XP onward, all installable file systems are required to support various VSS-related activities. Most notable among these are support for the flush-and-hold IOCTL. This is a message, sent by the VSS service, to the target volume (the one on which the snapshot is to be established) and which is forwarded by the filesystem after it flushes its buffers and holds subsequent I/O. The IOCTL is forwarded down the storage stack to the VSS Provider driver (the snapshot driver), which, when it receives this IOCTL, knows that the VSS writers are quiesced and the file system is in a flushed state and that it is now the optimal time to establish the snapshot. After establishing the snapshot, the VSS provider completes the flush-and-hold IOCTL which completion result bubbles back up to the file system above it, which causes the file system to release I/O on the volume.

Now, to your question. A true VSS Provider is one that is recognized by the VSS Service and can be used directly, without any hacks, by any VSS Requestor. If a VSS Requestor wishes to use a snapshot driver which is not a VSS Provider, and at the same time wishes to garner the benefits of VSS itself, then a hack is necessary in order to accomplish this feat. The current techniques (I'll spare you the nitty gritty details on how these hacks are actually implemented) that are used are sufficient, in my opinion, but are also sub-optimal.

However, keep in mind that for VSS Requestors that utilize the System VSS Provider, there is no hack involved and the solution can be very clean. "Can be" is the salient phrase here. Unfortunately it's very easy to mess up your VSS Requestor implementation. Interacting with the VSS framework is not a trivial task.

For FD-ISR, it's likely that, when they take VSS snapshots, they utilize the System VSS Provider. This wouldn't require any hack in order to leverage VSS. If they use their own snapshot technology when they create VSS snapshots, then they would need to use a hack to tap into the whole quiescence process to create their snapshots at the right moment. This doesn't mean that it's right or wrong. Such hacks can work just fine. And again, let me emphasize that I haven't analyzed their snapshotting techniques so perhaps they are simply using the System Provider for their VSS snapshots.

My earlier point was that if the FDISR requestor component didn't specify the specific provider it intended to use, and assumed that the System provider would be chosen, it would be mistaken in cases where the StorageCraft provider is registered. I don't know if this was the cause of their problem, but if so the fix would be to simply specify explicitly that they wanted to use the System provider. As Acronis doesn't even have a registered VSS provider, such an omission/assumption in FDISR's requestor code wouldn't provoke an issue because the System provider would be used. If no provider is specified, the system gives precedence to registered providers (IIRC) in this order: Hardware Providers, Software Providers (such as StorageCraft's provider), and finally the System Provider (volsnap.sys). That's why I said if this was the cause of FDISR's issue, then it was a fluke that it didn't occur with True Image, simply because their snapshot driver is not a registered VSS provider, which would cause a non-explicit FDISR requestor to end up using the System provider (or in other words, just plain get lucky and have their assumption come true). But again, I may be totally off base here. I don't actually know what Leapfrog did to FDISR to resolve the interop issue.

I just realized that I may not have answered your question directly enough. The only true VSS providers are those listed when you execute the command:

C:\> vssadmin list providers

Sometimes VSS will be in a bad state, and you'll get an error when you enter this command, but usually you'll just end up getting the list of true vss providers.

 

Anyone ever experience weird issues courtesy the XP BootLoader after some time where it would eventually refuse to boot to your other drive in a DUAL setup?
I have and not only once and is give me reason to believe it's not exactly designed to finish capacity even though it's quite a way down the road now.

I had to finally turn to PARAGON bootloader to boot to my other drive. I tried several fixes on the net and checked that boot.ini was a match in both or not corrupted like some have suggested but never got any joy with XP's bootloader assuming command. I would choose the other OS and the PC just reboot another loop as if to ignore that choice. I simply didn't have time to track down all the possible causes and PARAGON solved the matter with a single "click", so i dunno, but here's another question.

If you install XP Pro afresh to another drive i wonder what would happen then and if it would interfere with FD-ISR preboot in any way. FD seems to know what it has to to do with commands and carries them out without complaint (at least so far), but XP Pro bootloader has a tendency to forget the other drive in my case. I experienced this more than once and frown on it because you think $M would have the boot-up choice technique working reasonably well since it's very common to have multi-boot systems.

 

You have not been validated to downoload. Was:Re: FDISR & Shadow protect

Pete,

I went to the site and requested the evaluation.They sent me the link but I get a "you have not been validated to download." message.

 

Re: You have not been validated to downoload. Was:Re: FDISR & Shadow protect

I tried the link many times .It doesn't work.I emailed storagecraft yesterday but they didn't get back to me yet.

 

Re: You have not been validated to downoload. Was:Re: FDISR & Shadow protect

Peter2150,

I just did thanks.

 

Many thanks grnxmn for outlining $M VSS for us all. It's useful to understand exactly what it involves and why.

Also all the best for a successful run with ShadowProtect. Although Paragon is been my units savior from a long time ago up to the present, i'm anxiously looking forward to Version 3 of SP. Speed plus dependability is of the essence for most everything i work with locally.

Regards EASTER

 

So if a system has two proprietary VSS type programs on it, it's possible the software will get confused as to which VSS to use and so it's not a good idea to have such a setup such as FDISR and shadow protect? I thought that FDISR with it's new release fixed the compatibility between the two programs? So does that mean now that FDISR won't get confused as to which VSS to use?

 

ShadowProtect + FirstDefense-ISR = FULL recovery solution, that covers any possible disaster and probably the fastest one too.

I only need ShadowProtect
1. To restore my system partition, when FDISR is corrupted.
2. To restore my data partition : complete or file-by-file.
3. To restore a new harddisk in case of a harddisk crash.

All the rest is solved by FDISR, from my mistakes to a frozen BSOD.
FDISR also keeps my system partition clean, trouble-free and last but not least 100% malware-free.
FDISR gave me a paradise and I don't need to be knowledgeable either.

 

I only need Norton Ghost 2003
1. To restore my system partition, when FDISR is corrupted.
2. To restore my data partition : complete or file-by-file.
3. To restore a new harddisk in case of a harddisk crash.

Mike

P.S. Norton Ghost 2003 will fit on a floppy: 12/24/2003 09:15 AM 1,031,428 GHOST.EXE

 

Can't you restore one single file of your data partition with Norton Ghost instead of the whole volume ?

 

Well, the ghost.exe DOS program... no. But, when you install the whole GHOST 2003 package, it also installs Ghost Explorer a W32 program... yes.

So, I can restore a whole Ghost image, boot up into the restored system, and then use Ghost Explorer to restore all, or single files from a different Ghost image... for example, the Ghost image of D: drive containing "My Documents".

I only have Ghost experience from version 2003 and backwards (clear back to the people that wrote Ghost before Symantec bought them).

Mike

Fyi GHOST = "General Hardware-Oriented Software Transfer"

 

I'm an Acronis True Image user who is about to buy FD-ISR (well, as soon as I can find a vendor for it, that is!)... Any reason I should look to switch to Shadow Protect over True Image when using this combination?

So far, True Image works well enough... it's a bit slow, but does the job. I always image my entire C: drive from a bootable CD containing TI.

Thanks,
Dan

 

Please see this post https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=174063 to see what Todd (guy who wrote FD-ISR) recommends.

Mike