Drive Clone 3 Pro & Norton Ghost 12

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Durad, May 31, 2007.

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  1. nexstar

    nexstar Registered Member

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    Hi Kenny. Yes, exactly that. It is a standalone application and doesn't care where it is run from.

    There is a learning curve but it really is quite small and if you use Bart then you don't need to know the command line options at all. I just find it quicker sometimes to use a dos boot disc and command line than waiting for the Bart/UBCD disc to load (good opportunity for a cuppa though!).

    There is a 30 day unrestricted trial and there is also an installable version, the only real benefit of which is that it provides a file association for .SNA that simplifies exploring archives as virtual drives.

    Graham
     
  2. nexstar

    nexstar Registered Member

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    :D Sorry, it wasn't meant to sound like a sales pitch for DS!

    Yes, it saves the MBR and partition structure. It works on partitions but allows you to select multiple partitions to backup so I guess, in that sense, it allows you to clone the drive.

    Edit: Sorry, I'm talking rubbish and getting my clones mixed up with my images:( No, it doesn't clone at all. All partitions are saved as images.......but you can mount them as virtual drives;)

    As far as reliability is concerned, I always verify the archive as part of the backup process and I have never had an archive that hasn't either verified or restored correctly.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2007
  3. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Me too would like to know how the Norton Recovery CD is.
     
  4. nexstar

    nexstar Registered Member

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    With respect, equally that doesn't mean that we all have to work at the level of the lowest common denominator when determining our own backup solutions.

    I may be wrong but, I suspect that this has more to do with the way that different motherboard manufacturers have implemented usb in non-standardised ways that has made the whole thing difficult to cater for in a reliable way.

    Graham
     
  5. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Yes, everybody has the choice, but it's predictable that the majority of users, won't vote for DS. After all an empty DOS-prompt isn't attractive as a menu.
    Do you think it makes a difference for the average user : motherboard or USB.
    He sees only one thing : a Recovery CD that doesn't read his external harddisk and hardware/software companies should know this, but they don't care otherwise it was fixed already.
     
  6. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    It is really not a Paragon's Linux Recovery CD problem.

    Linux has no concept of Windows/DOS partition naming. Linux just reads the 1st partition number from the 1st disk and assigns the letter C:, it then reads the next and assigns D:, etc, etc, next disk, next partition, next letter, etc...

    So, this is not meant in anyway to belittle or just be mean, or cause/start a war... BUT, you need to understand what you have on each physical partition, and LABELS will help a lot.

    Order in Which MS-DOS and Windows Assign Drive Letters

    Even Drive Snapshot does not show the drive letters.

    This whole backup concept would be MUCH easier if the were NO partitions, just many separate disks.

    Again, I am not trying to cause any problems,
    Mike
     

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  7. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    Have you had the time to work with Paragon support about your USB problem?

    It they do not know about the problem, how can they fix it for you?

    Paragon: clarification about USB support
    Mike
     
  8. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Normally I have to buy PHDM and then I get a WinPE Recovery CD, but I got it from somebody else. Although I had an error message regarding network, I could get to the main menu, but I don't like Paragon and didn't do any further testing, but I could do a backup on my external harddisk.

    ShadowProtect is still my favorite one, because of its speed and I'm waiting for v3, which will have a faster loading Recovery CD. The CD of v2 is a disaster. I wouldn't recommend SP to less-knowledgeable users.
    DC3Pro or Norton Ghost are userfriendly enough for less-knowledgeable users.
     
  9. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    USB is a serial interface, just like PCI is an interface or AGP and even the parallel port.
    USB is nothing more than that.
    When you install a VGA card in your AGP or PCI Express slot, you need drivers to make it work. And probably not generic, but very specific drivers.
    MS Windows does not automatically recognize just any additional peripheral device that you connect to your computer.

    I watch how Windows recognizes a ATI Radeon 9250 card, but not a ATI Radeon 9550 card.
    USB is not different from that. No Sir, it isn't.

    By the way, I can't use the same pots and pans in the microwave that I use on the stove! :eek:
    But that is probably easier to accept than USB hassles.
     
  10. nexstar

    nexstar Registered Member

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    Oh, if we're speaking of the majority of users then I suspect that most of them won't be imaging their drives at all;) . As for the 'empty DOS-prompt', I think that this has been covered already and by a solution that always shows attached usb devices....or at least, for me it does. I certainly won't stop using DS just because the 'majority' don't vote for it!

    Don't shoot the messenger, Erik:) I was just trying to suggest a reason for the situation. I didn't bring it about.
     
  11. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    I do have a lot of respect for the developer who is able to offer this amount of functionality (including differential images) in such a tiny code base.
    It still baffles me that modern applications require installation media that are way larger than my first hard disk...

    Imaging isn't much more than reading sectors and compressing them. A little bit of intelligence added and it leaves out unused sectors.
    I know that this is a very simple approach, but still...
     
  12. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Well the solution isn't here at Wilders and we can discuss this until Christmas, but that won't solve the problem.
    I was just lucky with ATI to have a Linux CD that recognizes my USB. :rolleyes:
     
  13. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    Assume a DOS type image program... can you tell me exactly what is an "unused sector"?

    Is the sector all zeros?

    Mike
     
  14. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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  15. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    Somehow the filesystem has a lookup table which keeps track of each and every sector that is in use or not in use. (for example when you create a new file, it needs free space, that is: unused sectors.
    When you delete a file, it is not wiped from the disk platter, but the involved sectors are unmarked as used.)

    So, unused sectors are not filled with zeroes, they are available as free space.
     
  16. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Norton Ghost 12 Recovery CD - A Personal Evaluation:

    I borrowed a NG12 Recovery CD and loaded it on both my desktop and laptop with intent to see how it compared to other disk-imaging products I've tried.

    As it turned out, my evaluation was unexpectedly abreviated because (true to its name) the Recovery CD provides only image-recovery functionality (as well as offering some disk-utilities). That is to say, it does not provide for creating an image; apparently that can only be performed from within Windows (and for reasons stated in my other posts here, I do not want to install NG12 on my PCs).

    I was not only disappointed in the Recovery CD not allowing me to create an image, I was also disappointed to find that (like PHDM's Boot CD) the NG12 CD could not see my desktop's D-drive which is connected to a Promise controller. While the CD does contain utilities to load any necessary drivers, it appears that would have to be done every time it was used!

    When I loaded the NG12 CD on my laptop with my USB external drive connected, it did see both my internal and external drives, for whatever that may be worth.

    Given that I could not create an image with the NG12 CD, I went about as far as I could go, so I aborted all further testing of Norton Ghost 12. I will try to evaluate Drive Clone 3 during the next few days.

    ~pv
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2007
  17. flinchlock

    flinchlock Registered Member

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    So, if I delete a bunch of files, and make an image (that I think everyone says will only copy used sectors), and then I do a restore to a zero'd hard disk, the file containing all my passwords that I deleted before the image, will not be restored the new hard disk? ;)

    Mike
     
  18. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    Thanks man, I was waiting for this information and I'm disappointed too. Almost unbelievable that a company like Norton makes such mistakes. I expected something more from Norton Ghost 12..
    I'm also interested in the Recovery CD of Drive Clone 3 Pro, which I couldn't test either in the trial version.
     
  19. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    I'm not one to bash companies or their software, but the fact of the matter is that I've tested quite a few Symantec products and I've been disappointed in every one of them! ...nuff said.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2007
  20. wilbertnl

    wilbertnl Registered Member

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    That sounds correct.
    You could also use a utility to zero unused sectors: sdelete.exe
     
  21. kennyboy

    kennyboy Registered Member

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    Sorry to disagree, but this just doesn't hold water. I have Acronis 8.0 Acronis 9.1 and Norton (not sure version) boot disks and I know ATI uses Linux. None of these have any problem assigning the CORRECT drive letters. This means it must be sloppy coding on the Paragon Linux CD otherwise they would all be the same.

    Please reread my post. I specifically said my volumes are labelled. I also said that at a stressful time, (which is certainly when needing to use an Emergency boot disk, ) mistakes can be made.
    Don't get me wrong, I do actually use Paragon HDM and it does do a good job within Windows as far as I can tell. However, this is obviously when everything is running fine, and not as critical as when needing to use the boot disk. Paragon also sees my USB External drive which is good, but for other people....it doesn't. This again can only be sloppy coding.
    Not good enough, but the best I can find....at the moment.

    Hope this clarifies a bit.

    Kenny
     
  22. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Kenny, it's not so much a matter of sloppy coding, but rather a less than a complete or accurate set of drivers. Windows drivers seem to be a perpetual problem for Linux. And even when the driver for your device is there, operation is almost always slower than it would be in Windows!
     
  23. kennyboy

    kennyboy Registered Member

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    @pv. Yes, I take your point there.

    Point I was trying to make is that if some boot disks can get it (nearly) right, it shows that it must be possible to get
    a). Drive letters correct, and
    b). USB recognition for hardware
    when using a Linux based boot disk.

    Surely the companies that write backup software expect people to use External devices to back up to, and also not have to analyse and correct faulty drive letter recognition.
    In effect, they are releasing a partially complete product in the hope of satisfying the majority, which doesnt seem right.

    I suppose from a commercial point of view this makes sense, but I will never be convinced that if one product can achieve something, that it is unreasonable to expect their competitors to achieve the same. Faulty or incomplete drivers included.

    Interesting debate though..... :)
     
  24. Jo Ann

    Jo Ann Registered Member

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    Kenny, it's more complicated than that. For example, ATI's Boot CD gets the drive letters right for you, pvsurfer and me, but not for some others! Acronis just happens to have our device-drivers well implemented in their Boot CD, but not for some other hardware configurations (judging from complaints on their forum)!

    Jo Ann
     
  25. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I don't think it's at all Linux related. I use both Winpe restore CD and Bartpe for some restores. On one of my machines, the drive letters are correct in both recovery environments, and on the other they are both wrong. I think it's more to do with windows.

    @Kennyboy. You made a comment about problems in a time of stress. Good point. I strongly believe you should restore your images as often as you make them. First time have some plan B to protect yourself(data saved, recovery disks, whatever) and then restore your system. It will then get to the point that when you really need to do it, it will just be another exercise, rather than trauma.

    Pete
     
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