Delete Paragon Backups

Discussion in 'Paragon Drive Backup Product Line' started by JosephB, Feb 2, 2012.

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  1. JosephB
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    JosephB Registered Member

    Delete Paragon Backups - Revised

    .... Revised - I just realized that I can generate the below Delete Backup Archives Script into a standalone executable, if there are forum user requests.

    .... Let me know soon, if you have a need for this Deletion Script, as I will be installing/testing a beta version of the winautomation scripting software, any day now, and should *not* create a standalone version while in beta test mode.


    If anyone mainly does "Scheduled - "Full Image Backups" .....

    ..... If you would like to Schedule Deletion of Paragon "Full Image Backup Archives", based on the technique of Retaining a[/B][/I] "Number of Archive Generations" and automatically Deleting Archives that are past the Number of Generations to Retain, then you might find the WinAutomation - Deletion Script that I created usefull to you. The Script is located in the winautomation support forum (job gallery).

    NOTES:

    1. Using the WinAutomation Script to perform the Archive Deletion is an Interim solution, until this type of feature is added into B&R 10 Home, Suite, HDM.
    P.S. Although, the WinAutomation software is *not* free, it is well worth its price (inmo), as you can automate just about anything you do manually on your pc, as well as, automating what you do with your web browser.

    2. I chose to use WinAutomation scripting because it was fast to create and get working.

    3. However, if others have a need for this type of script and do *not* have winautomation (and do not plan on buying it), let me know.
    If there are forum user requests, I just realized that I can compile the winautomation script and turn it into a standalone executable with parameter switches which will run on your pc with no need for the winautomation software on your pc. The only requirement on your pc will be for .Net Framework V2 or later (comes with Vista and Win 7, but optional microsoft download for XP).

    Description of Deletion Script:
    If you create Weekly, Monthly or Daily "Full Image" Backups and are tired of having to manually Delete old Full image (weekly/monthly/daily) Backups, then I have come up with a Script to Delete the old Weekly/Monthly/Daily "Full" Image Backups that are older than x levels of Generations to mantain and that are also beyond a xxx retention days.

    P.S. One cavet about the Script is that although the paragon backup archives will be deleted, I have no way of delete the archive entry from the paragon database listing of archives shown under the Archive Tab of the GUI. But, the important thing is that you do *not* run out of disk space on your drive. Plus you can periodically just go into the Archive Tab" screen and it will allow you to manually delete the entry for the archive which no longer exists on your drive (paragon gui will show the archive line entry "grayed out" which is a signal to you that archive was deleted from the disk, but catalog/database entry for it still exists. ... so just manually delete it via the paragon gui, by right clicking it and choosing delete).
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  2. J_L
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    J_L Registered Member

    Doesn't Cyclic Backup have automated deletion?
  3. JosephB
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    JosephB Registered Member

    J_L,

    The only problem or disadvantage (in my opinion) with the current implementation of Cyclic Backups is that the Cyclic Backup feature will *not* create you a New Full base, it only creates a number of new differentials (cycled/deleted).

    I automatically Schedule the execution of all my Backups and I would *not* want to Manually (i.e. manually delete the scheduled cyclic job and manually re-create it again to have a new first base archive created) have to do something, just to get a new full base backup created.

    ... This is the main reason that I do *not* use the current implementation of Cyclic Backups and why I always Schedule Full Image Backup Jobs. If I was goinfg do my Backups "Manually (*not* Scheduled)", then I would make use of Manual (on-demand) Differential Backups, along with Manual Full Image Backups.


    P.S. You do *not* want to go too long, before creating a New Full Image Base, as if your base gets corrupted (hard drive bad block, etc) or accidently deleted, then you have backup of your pc (differential needs base to perform restore). Also, after too long a period, your recent differentials will take up as much aspace ss doing a full image backup, anyway).

    P.P.S. I currently do Weekly backups, and I prefer to have (3 )Scheduled - Full Complete Image Backups of my pc (i.e. grandfather, father, son approach). If in the future, Paragon enhances their Cyclic feature to easily be able to automatically schedule the Cycling/Re-Cycling of (3) Backup Sets (each Set comprising a Weekly Full base + 6 daily differentials) that would be great !
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  4. JosephB
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    JosephB Registered Member

    .... Revised - I just realized that I can generate the below Delete Backup Archives Script into a standalone executable, if there are forum user requests.

    .... Let me know soon, if you have a need for this Deletion Script, as I will be installing/testing a beta version of the winautomation scripting software, any day now, and should *not* create a standalone version while in beta test mode.


    ---> If anyone mainly does "Scheduled - "Full Image Backups" .....

    ..... Then, If you would like to Schedule Deletion of Paragon "Full Image Backup Archives", based on the technique of Retaining a[/B][/I] "Number of Archive Generations" and automatically Deleting Archives that are past the Number of Generations to Retain, then you might find the WinAutomation - Deletion Script that I created usefull to you. The Script is located in the winautomation support forum (job gallery).


    NOTES:

    1. Using the WinAutomation Script to perform the Archive Deletion is an Interim solution, until this type of feature is added into B&R 10 Home, Suite, HDM.

    2. I chose to use WinAutomation scripting because it was fast to create and get working.

    3. However, if others have a need for this type of script and do *not* have winautomation (and do not plan on buying it), let me know:

    ---> If there are forum user requests, I just realized that I can compile the winautomation script and turn it into a standalone executable with parameter switches which will run on your pc with no need for the winautomation software on your pc. The only requirement on your pc will be for .Net Framework V2 or later (comes with Vista and Win 7, but optional microsoft download for XP).


    Description of Deletion Script:

    If you create Weekly, Monthly or Daily "Full Image" Backups and are tired of having to manually Delete old Full image (weekly/monthly/daily) Backups, then I have come up with a Script to Delete the old Weekly/Monthly/Daily "Full" Image Backups that are older than x levels of Generations to mantain and that are also beyond a xxx retention days.

    Specifically, this Deletion Script sets the Minimum Number of Archive Generations to Retain and the Number of Days for Retention

    .... and this work as follows:

    ----> When the "Number of Generations to Retain" is exceeded, Delete the old exceeded Generations *only* if their Retention Dates have Past.

    NOTE: .... This approach provides extra insurance, in the situation where you may accidentily re-run the backup an extra time(s).
    It prevents the "exceeded" generation(s) from being accidently deleted, ahead of your normal execution/retention cycle, by *not* deleting them, unless they have also passed their Retention Days. (i.e. You just have an extra generation(s) hanging around which is fine, at least you did not lose an archive that still may be needed).


    P.S. One cavet about the Script is that although the paragon backup archives will be deleted, I have no way of delete the archive entry from the paragon database listing of archives shown under the Archive Tab of the GUI. But, the important thing is that you do *not* run out of disk space on your drive. Plus you can periodically just go into the Archive Tab" screen and it will allow you to manually delete the entry for the archive which no longer exists on your drive (paragon gui will show the archive line entry "grayed out" which is a signal to you that archive was most likely deleted from the disk, but catalog/database entry for it still exists. ... so just manually delete it via the paragon gui, by right clicking it and choosing delete).
    .... Please be aware that if the backups are on an external drive and you have the external drive Turned OFF, then all the arhive line entries on the archive tab will be "grayed out").
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  5. Scott_Y
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    Scott_Y Registered Member

    Re: Delete Paragon Backups - Revised

    Be cautioned that in B&R 2012 Free and possibly other Paragon backup products, a greyed-out entry in the Archives tab is not necessarily deleted. See http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=317050 for reports of greyed-out archives which are still on the disk, but misreported by B&R with the grey status (see comment #12 in that thread for a summary of the problem).

    I would be very interested to hear by comment in that thread if other users are experiencing the same problem with greyed-out items in other Paragon backup products, or if it is restricted to just B&R. Thanks.
  6. skbaltimore
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    skbaltimore Registered Member

    I don't know if this is the proper forum, or the proper thread, but I just purchased the HD Manager 11 Suite, which has back up options, and I've got a question. I made a full system back up, it shows when I open the Restore section, but when I go to the "Archives" section, everything is greyed out. Do I need to somehow add the first full backup, and any subsequent backups, to the database section, and if so, what is the advantage?

    Also, I've always managed the backup partition of my HDDs, which I reserve solely for full system image backups so that they don't accidentally get defragged, manually -- meaning, I manually do the full backups on some sort of non-linear schedule, and after3 or 4 progressive full backups are stored, I delete the one that was done furthest back in time, so that there's always room on the HDD. (I also intermittently do a full system backup to DVDs, so I have a good off site option in case the HDD becomes inaccessible or inoperative. So my question is, as long as I choose to not automate anything, does it mess up the program's operation to manually delete the unnecessary backups?
  7. Scott_Y
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    Scott_Y Registered Member

    The problem of greyed-out archive entries has been discussed extensively at this thread http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=317050 Posts #9 and #12 there describe two workarounds enabling access to the archives in question if they are on a local drive (archives on a removable drive are a different matter -- see http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=2012811&postcount=37).

    Greyed-out archives on a local drive appears to be a bug. I reported it to Paragon but I have received essentially zero acknowledgement from them; it's like they don't recognize it as a problem. But then I was using a free version of Backup & Recovery, so that may be the reason my report has received so little attention from them.

    But you, skbaltimore, have encountered the same problem in a PAID product (Paragon obviously uses the same underlying programming for the same function in multiple products). May I encourage you to file a support ticket directly with Paragon to report this bug? You may get their attention better than I did on a free version. You can refer them to this thread and the one linked above for all they need to know to identify the problem.

    And if you get a response from Paragon, would you mind reporting it on the thread linked above? I would really appreciate that. A number of users have expended a lot of time on this problem, and it would be nice to know if and when Paragon responds to it. Surely they must care if their paying customers have a problem.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  8. skbaltimore
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    skbaltimore Registered Member

    Thanks for your response (sorry about the delay; even though I have the notify by email option checked, I never get any notifications, so I have to retrace my steps, and the first couple weeks of having a new computer is always hectic) You bet...I'll contact Paragon support, since this is definitely a legal, fully paid for program, and I'll post back here with the results. I'm just surprised that so few other folks have run into this problem. I'm still able to use the program, and I like it a lot -- it's fast and, so far, reliable. It's just that one part seemed odd, and hopefully I can get some kind of reasonable answer/solution from them.
  9. fireworker
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    fireworker Registered Member

  10. skbaltimore
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    skbaltimore Registered Member

    Okay...I don't know if this will help, but I was playing around with HDM 11 tonight, and for the first time, I saw the tab in the right hand window, "Archives". I clicked on it, and after seeing a "Not Responding" message, eventually a list of all the arc folders, and diff folders, appeared. Then I clicked on the "Archives" at the top of the toolbar, and voila!!! No more greyed out options. Apparently, in order to get those options, the "Archives" tab has to be selected in the right hand window. If not...no dice.

    :D

    As far as individual archives being greyed out...I have some of them too, but they were for DVD backups, and flash drive backups.

    HTH
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  11. Scott_Y
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    Scott_Y Registered Member

    That is correct. See http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=316084 for some discussion that menu options should be available (not greyed out) whether or not the associated tab is open.

    Thanks for posting your experience. It is yet another example of how Paragon's GUI can cause the user to think the operations are not valid, when in fact they are. That is confusing and nonintuitive.

    Yes, that is as expected for any archive which is not currently available in the location where the archive database says it is.
  12. skbaltimore
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    skbaltimore Registered Member

    Absolutely. Usually, programs have a certain built-in redundancy (i.e. you can access the same thing in several different ways). In the case of the Archives, I've seen very few programs in which you have to select a TAB first in order to access something from the menu/toolbar section. It would seem to be the opposite, in that most programs ascribe more power to the menu/toolbar items than to the tab items. (In Sound Forge, you have to have a file loaded or most of the menu/toolbar options are greyed out. But it's still more or less intuitive in that you wouldn't be USING any of those options UNLESS a file had already been opened.) In this instance, it's counter-intuitive, because you'd think you would need to be able to access that particular menu item IN ORDER to work with already archived files, especially since the files use the Paragon proprietary naming, and they're already recorded/recognized by the program, as evidenced by the fact that they do show up once the Archives Tab is selected. It's one of those quirks that once you know the trick, it's no big deal. But frankly, that "Archives" tab just got lost in the big window to the right, mixed in with all the rest of the other stuff. At least it did for me. And the Paragon built in "Help" system definitely leaves a lot to be desired in such a multi-dimensional program as HDM 11 Suite. I felt like I needed a Help program to help me figure it out. :D
  13. Scott_Y
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    Scott_Y Registered Member

    Well said, skbaltimore. Because almost all Windows programs have menus and relatively few have tabs, it is much more likely that a user will try a menu by default. And one would not expect to need to open a tab first in order to gain access to menu functions. Then on top of that the tabs don't stand out in B&R. Yet as you point out, Paragon seems to depend more on the tabs and has demoted the menus. That is all counterintuitive.

    And I agree with you, it's no big deal once we know this. Too bad the user needs to experiment in order to discover these insider secrets. It is easy to conclude from the greyed-out items that they just don't work.
  14. skbaltimore
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    skbaltimore Registered Member

    And one final note, to complicate matters even further: when using the WinPE disk, there IS no "Archives" tab, so the "Archives" menu stays greyed out the whole time.
  15. Scott_Y
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    Scott_Y Registered Member

    Wow! So the menu really is dependent on the tab being shown. Just seems backwards for GUI design. I'm guessing what you found for the WinPE was not really intended by Paragon, but the poor underlying design has come back to bite them unexpectedly.
  16. skbaltimore
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    skbaltimore Registered Member

    It also appears that by relying on VSS, all of the limitations of VSS negatively impact the functioning of HDM as well. For example, VSS fails to copy "non essential" Windows system files. One such file is the Windows Update history file. So after doing a system image backup and restore, your Windows History update is blank. Paragon used to offer their own hot processing option, but apparently it doesn't work in Win 7, only XP. When you install HDM 11 (or 12) on a Win 7 system, the Paragon Hot Processing engine doesn't even install by default. So having to rely on VSS on a Win 7 machine ties the user to all of the limitations of VSS.
  17. John Doe Genius
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    John Doe Genius Registered Member

    I know it has been said before that Paragon Hot Processing does not work in Windows 7, but that isn't my experience, look at http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=2030448&postcount=158

    I have NOT installed the HotCore driver, which is recommended for Windows 2000, and is offered as an addendum in both the B&R11 and HDM12 installation program. Both programs has the option to choose between 'MS Volume Shadow Copy Service' and 'Paragon Hot Processing'. With PHP selected, the Windows Update History is properly backed up.

    Attached Files:

  18. seekforever
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    seekforever Registered Member

    My friend who uses W7 had a VSS error and switched to Paragon Hot Processing in B&R free and it works fine.
  19. skbaltimore
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    skbaltimore Registered Member

    @JDG

    Well...I have the paid version of HDM 11 Suite, and as my screenshot in the other thread showed...that drop down box is greyed out, and Paragon Hot Processing is simply not an option. (I added a post to my open ticket to inquire about Paragon Hot Processing.) I'd definitely use Paragon Hot Processing if it's an option, as it appears to fix the problem. (When I installed the HotCore Driver using a modified install/uninstall, the option did appear, but when I tried to use it to make a backup, the program locked up.) The response I got from Paragon mentioning the disappearing Windows Update history made no mention of switching from VSS to Paragon Hot Processing, but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't the correct fix. But it can't be the fix for me if I can't access is, and/or if I install the HotCore driver and it locks up the program. When you said that's it's offered as an addendum in both HDM 11 & HDM 12, what does that mean? If it's not related to selecting the HotCore Driver during the installation process, how do you get the addendum? (I found some threads in other forums talking about a BartPE plug-in that can be incorporated into a disk-driven version of Paragon, which provides the Paragon Hot Processing option. But that's not what you're talking about, is it? And since there's no problem backing up using the WinPE disk, I always have that disk backup option at my disposal now. It's just that it's more convenient to make the backup in Windows, vs using the WinPE disk, especially since the WinPE disk doesn't save the settings, which have to be re-checked each time.)

    TIA
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2012
  20. John Doe Genius
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    John Doe Genius Registered Member

    Maybe 'addendum' is not the correct word, what I meant: The setup does not include the Hot Core driver as a default setting, look at the image in my previous post. As you can see from the attached screen shot, an installation shall require 56KB more diskspace. – But still I have, without the driver, the option to select hot processing mode; I was indeed surprised since I skipped the driver for Win2000. And the update history *IS* backed up with the PHP option. So that option is greyed-out on your computer? Really strange.

    BTW, additionally I have added the software distribution folder to the *automatic* backup in Genie Timeline; it is a fantastic piece of software.

    Attached Files:

  21. skbaltimore
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    skbaltimore Registered Member

    I'm running Win 7 Pro 32 bit. I just uninstalled HDM 11 Suite, and installed HDM 12 Suite. I did not choose the option to install the HotCore Driver. Without it, the Paragon Hot Processing option is greyed out. When I modified the previous HDM 11 Suite to include HotCore Driver, and tried to do a backup, it hung. I've got a good working b/u pre-uninstall HDM 11 and install HDM 12. I'll uninstall HDM 12, then reinstall with the HotCore Driver selected, and then do a backup with Paragon Hot Processing selected and see if it works.

    To be continued...
  22. skbaltimore
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    skbaltimore Registered Member

  23. John Doe Genius
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    John Doe Genius Registered Member

    +1

    It is amazing how common it is with inaccurate installers. During my work-life I have created a couple of installer packages. I took pride in making the clean-up process to work perfectly. There are a lot of challenges, for example when one user goes from version 1 to 2, but another goes from 1 to 4 and so on. That's why I prefer to perform a complete uninstall before I install a new release. And yes, at last I have been an ardent supporter to Revo Uninstaller.

    The greyed-out and not greyed-out PHP option is really strange. I found that the option is greyed-out on my WinXP computer (B&R11 Home), whilst it is available on my Win 7 x64 computer (with both B&R 11 Home, HDM12 Pro and Drive Copy 11 Pro). Is it a kind of quantity discount...? :cool: (I have never installed the Hot Core driver.)
  24. skbaltimore
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    skbaltimore Registered Member

    I just got a response from Pavel which stated that the way to activate PHP is to install the Hot Core Driver.

    And I noticed that even after using Revo there were still Paragon drivers that were creating Event Viewer errors, so I reinstalled and booted in safe mode and ran Revo and finally fixed the problem. HDM isn't an a/v, so I don't know why in the world the drivers should be so wedged in that a safe boot Revo uninstall should be necessary, but it was. After that, I decided to not reinstall either HDM 11 or 12; I'll just run HDM 12 from the WinPE disk. I figured that since the best way to do the backups with this program and avoid errors after a restore was with the disk anyway, I might as well avoid the hassle down the road of having to do a safe boot Revo uninstall.
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