deepfreeze VS shadow defender

Well all this would be a lot more convincing if one didn't insist on talking about FDISR all the time even when it's at best tangentially relevant.

Well technically, these days one is both boasting about how one has found the perfect security solution followed immediately by moaning that it's the end of the world because FDISR is supposedly dead...

If one weren't a regular to this forum used to reading such posts, one would wonder if the poster was a bit emotionally unstable.

 

Is it possible that this is just a linguistic misunderstanding ? "There is NO alternative" is not the same as "I do not like the alternatives"

Some time ago, when discussing FD-ISR and freeze you initially said that it was NOT possible to use Returnil and later changed this to you didn't want to have to click on F1.

There are alternatives to FD-ISR - many alternatives. That you don't like these alternatives is understood but please stop claiming that there are no alternatives - if only for the benefit of the casual reader who might misunderstand as a result of your posts.

I am happy using Acronis and say deepfreeze. This combination allows me to do whatever I want - to have hundreds of snapshots(images) to freeze or unfreeze as I see fit and all at speeds which make any speed comparison irrelevant. I am not asking you to do the same - simply trying to get you to understand that there are alternatives which suit others even though they do not suit you.

I can not speak for others but all I'm asking is that you change "there are no alternatives" to "I don't like the alternatives"

 

Hey, let's talk about DF and SD and what you can do with it and what you can't do with it. I'm not the subject and drop the personal comments, that is waste of time.

 

no you are not the subject, but the product you love is in reality, what most of us want. It is ashame. Its time may have come before the reality of the need. And I would buy it in a second if it were here today, I think most would. What was non-profitable then, would be now. Heres to hopefully Tony creating SD into something at least close or in the ball park.

 

If Tony is able to export and import several archives of different versions of system partition with SD, then he is VERY CLOSE to FDISR.
For instance :
- an archive that contains a fresh installed unused system partition
- an archive that contains a system partition with software A + B
- an archive that contains a system partition with software A + B + C + D
- an archive that contains your recent system partition.
You can save these several archives and when you need them you can import them back, use them or adjust them and store them back or keep on using them.
Of course it needs to happen fast, not like Image Backup/Restore.

The only thing I would miss are the multiple snapshots, but I can live with that, because FDISR is DEAD and I need an alternative one day.

 

WELP

after all like we all agree ...combine thoos FDISR progy + DF/SD give you the best protection to your pc.

although make image to your drive (shadow protect etc) is extremist for
home computer.

DF is for pro uses like pc's in the industry or public ones
SD more flexible although in theory more vulnerable (commit can add malware in mem also)

cheers

 

That depends on how he develops the GUI.
An easy GUI for those who want a simple boot-to-restore solution.
Another GUI for those who want more.
Everything is possible as long you know how to do it.

 

yo peter dont be ridiculous man...DF + AV is more than enogh for home users...what u expect for mother and sun?? running BDC lol!!!!!!

maybe is better home users will buy pcs with RAID make there main 320 hd mirror to more 3 disks like the main one?? LOL LOL

most home users can work nice and easy adding SD to there level of protection

cheers

 

hi peter hope they will not take your reply 2 mcuh serious coz u are pranoid lol...if u read my reply to this thred i said c:\ = os +basic sotfware other stuff goes to d:\ e:\....etc..
so good AV + SD/SF will suit most users pal ...and if u cant understand someting ask ...dont tell all board "ignore that " coz u miss the point

cheers

 

the only point being missed is one called "Grammar".

 

Hello, Blue - congratulations on your "upgrade" to Administrator!

I like your above statement - it has a catchy appeal! Hopefully, you won't mind if I quote it!

Regarding discussion in this thread, it seems to me that if one's starting point were to consider how a particular security software fits into the security plan, or strategy, fewer overlaps and conflicts would occur. It would eliminate the need for "which is better" discussions, since the answer to that question can only come from knowing intimately a person's complete setup and working environment.

From that point of view, there is no "ultimate" solution, therefore, no rationale to make such a statement, which consequently leads to responses such as

Or for many others...

Comparisons can be discussed without concluding that a solution is necessarily ideal or not ideal for everyone.

With respect to Deep Freeze versus other similar products - what does Deep Freeze do, and how does it differ from them?

We can learn from Easter's question,

From the Faronics FAQ:

Significant here are the terms, "non-restrictive" and "restrictive."

Deep Freeze is 'non-restrictive' in that it does not restrict (prevent) something from installing, or from changes being made to the system. Rather, it's sole purpose in life is "to remove any changes made to a workstation after a restart." It is not an imaging nor backup program.

For educational institutions - this is a tremendous feature, as students in computing laboratories can work on assignments dealing with the Registry, for example -- the instructors knowing that the workstations will resort to original state on reboot.

For home use -- software that doesn't require a reboot can be evaluated, and the System partition always remains in its original state.

"Restrictive" software such as Anti-Executable, on the other hand, restricts (denies by default) the installation of any unauthorized executables.

In this way, Anti-Executable (or an Anti-Virus program) would complement a program such as Deep Freeze, if that fits in with the user's security strategy. Who can answer that but the user herself/himself?

As has been stated,

Who benefits from using Deep Freeze?

I'm not sure what you mean by a "pro" user, but if "professional" in the sense of institutions or companies, then that characterization is completely false.

If by "pro" you mean technical experts -- again, I disagree with your characterization.

Five home users besides myself come to mind who have used Deep Freeze for years, with no problems. Two are average (whatever that means) family situations where one computer is used by all in the family. Another is a faculty member at a college who saw how Deep Freeze works and decided to install it at home.

Again,

There are numerous ways of setting up Deep Freeze. In an institutional setting, computers normally have a single partition, and the Enterprise Edition of Deep Freeze installs a virtual Thawed partition for user files -- faculty PowerPoint presentations on classroom computers, for example.

Deep Freeze Standard edition does not have this feature, so other considerations come into play. The user has to have at least one Thawed partition (place for storage) for data which will not be discarded upon reboot.

Upon installation, the user has the choice to select which drives (partitions) are to be frozen.


______________________________________________________________

While partitioning the Hard Disk is one solution, there are others, such as

• A second internal Hard Disk
• External media

Having the internal HD in a removable carriage/tray is useful for some people. Two I know at a college use an external HD for storage with their laptops, choosing to keep no data on the laptop.

While some people re-map their C:\Documents directory to another partition, another solution is to not use that directory at all, and set up a filing system for storage on another partition/drive. Applications such as MSWord have the Option to designate the directory in which to save documents, and so can point to whatever location you designate for storage.

In keeping with the comparison with Shadow Defender, here is the principal difference between it and Deep Freeze (from the Shadow Defender website):

Deep Freeze does not permit the user to commit (save) changes to a frozen partition.

Why this should be criticized as a shortcoming is puzzling: it is a feature of the program that keeps with its concept of robust security.

If lack of that feature (or any feature) makes a program unattractive, then another program (Shadow Defender in this case) will fit the need and can be highly recommended without heaping criticism on the other product.

----
rich

 

demoneye,

I've basically had the same read as Peter on some of your comments, and in part it's because you tend to leave details either out or somewhat obscured. We're not paranoid. Far from it.

There are a couple of issues here. First, the discussion has been moving between general (data loss) and specific (DF/SD protection) scenarios.

In the general scenario, one has to consider data loss via both malware based corruption and physical failure of a HDD. Physical failure can involve any HDD on the system. While malware based corruption can be addressed by many different means, hardware failure is only addressable by having the same files on multiple physical devices. Those physical devices can be a second internal HDD, an external HDD, or some type of removable media (CD/DVD) - but the baseline is always the same: one file on two (or more) physical devices.

A user doesn't need to be fancy, they just need to appreciate that the HDD will, at some point, fail if used long enough and when that occurs, material on that drive is lost unless the value exceeds the cost of a custom recovery effort. Do ordinary users (mom/son) need to worry about this? Well, as entertainment (purchased music or videos/personal photos) increasingly move to only downloaded digital form, yes, ordinary users need to consider this. Some form of image backup makes it convenient in that key portions of the information may be neglected if simpler approaches (say a simple copy operation) are employed by a casual user.

With respect to protecting against malware corruption, an AV+SD or AV+DF are close to equal. Let's ignore the specific POC type vulnerability of DF that has already been discussed, it will be fixed at some point if it hasn't already been addressed. I agree that, in broad strokes, SD trades some ease of use for potential vulnerabilities when compared to DF. Part of the ease of use is that a user can configure SD to fit within a typical installation, that may have been in use for years, without any changes via a judicious choice of excluded folders. It can be seemless. For many users, DF would require a minor change in usage - it's not an onerous change, anyone could do it if desired - it's just different from typical defaults and is best accomplished with some prior thought.

Blue

 

Thanks - and I absolutely won't mind - quote or use without attribution at will.

For some that's a limitation, for others it's a critical feature.

Exactly! For something to be good doesn't mean everything else which is different has to be considered bad or weak. It's not a zero sum game.

Blue

 

hi again

welp first peter ==> "Second I didn't miss your point. Typical home users don't have more than one drive to setup the way you described. They have the c: drive that came in their system, most likely have the out of date AV that came in the system. Should they do backups. Absolutely, but do they...no."

yoo mann... ppl do like split there 320 giga hd into some other partiotion...coz of the reason when u need to format c:\ coz windows get dameage , u dont have to waste time and deal with what to bacup. and i am talking on 98% users pal ! i work with that and never saw 320 hs stay 1 size ...ony for special ppl who need abig hs for music/ movies makeing.so expend your mind and finaly get down 2 my way of thinking

and for you BlueZannetti + peter ... why waste all this clicking? just buy new pc (very chep) install whs (windows home server) and u can get daily backup the all street of your lol , no need for DP nor FDIRS (momy/son will be happy) .... heheh

cheers

 

Hi guys,
You can discuss this as long as you want, I have something what users only dream about.
A computer that repairs and cleans itself automatically for the next 5 years and when FDISR is still compatible with winVISTA, I'm good for another 5 years.
Nothing can beat a fresh, clean installed and unused system partition and that's what I have after each reboot.

All what I have to do extra and what every user has to do is
- upgrading my system partition, when needed
- do a backup, when needed.
- pay attention to what I download and install.
I only have to wait for something better.

Sorry about the other ISR-softwares, but they weren't versatile enough to do the job, otherwise I would use them already.
You can discuss all these little differences between them, but they are not important as long they aren't real ISR-softwares.

Meanwhile I keep a good eye on all these ISR-softwares, while they grow up.
One day, I might need one of them to replace FDISR, but 5-10 years is a long time.

 

I don't.

I have - it's cost/time effective for me (5-7 clients), but that's not true for everyone.

Blue

 

Courtesy Urban Dictionary;

WELP
what really annoying people say instead of well. The same kind of people who use jah instead of yes.

 

whelp

LOL.....I just thought the H was missing

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/whelp

 

Nobody has ever questioned or argued that FDISR is a stunning application in terms of its versatility.

Versatility which has contributed to its demise (not a very easy application to learn to use for the average household). Then, if we like to add 11,315 posts from its forum, which are basically from people enthusiastic, complaining, learning etc, we are talking about an application that is not trouble free.

You can live with your dream, in the meantime there are applications that are still 'evergreen' to use one of your beloved expressions: DeepFreeze, I mention the one on topic which is continuously developed, and others that are potentially becoming irresistible like shadowdefender.

You keep saying your system is invincible, the truth is that here at Wilders we have different systems with different strategies which lead to the same result: Malware free systems. Your attitude towards other posters and ideas is becoming arrogant and pedantic, and in 5-10 years time we might be even in another world.