Deep Freeze Experiences

If you are worried about using Deep Freeze with an anti-virus program in a professional setting, all you really need to do is read the DF documentation. It clearly says that you can configure your antivirus to auto-update at, for example, 3:30 PM, and then set DF to go into maintenance mode (thawed) at 3:30 PM, so you would be able to receive updates. Also, on another note, keyboard, mouse, speakers, and only allowed applications can be ran during maintenance mode. You can configure this with your Deep Freeze Administrator Console in the Program Files folder.

 

JRosenfed

mentioned deepfreeze& partitioning?
Shadowuser recommends using partition magic to keep system files on and another partition for data also. I have one HP laptop that included both the restore CD's andc a seperate OS CD. On this one I could partition but on my other laptop, I only got the restore Cd's when I purchased it.
So I am limited on my second laptop with only one partition.
Is there any big difference between shadowuser & Shadowsurfer?

Bruce

 

ShadowUser has more features, one of which is that users can select the files or folders that they want to automatically save to disk or save upon a PC reboot. See here for Data Sheets and White Papers:

http://www.shadowstor.com/ServiceSupport/ProductResources/

Edit: also here for features comparison:

http://www.shadowstor.com/products/ItemPage.aspx?ItemID=49&ProductID=18

-Rmus

 

Thanks Rmus


So if I am using Shadowsurfer and playing a game and wanted to save my way point, I would have to be playing out of shadow mode. If I wanted to install software as permenant, I would have to be out of shadow mode.
If I wanted to just test an application, I could use shadowmode and the app
would be gone on reboot.

If I am using ShadowUser, I could allow changed while in shadow mode such as saving game way points ect. Since I only have the restore cd's with my one laptop, I would need a external drive to save files, folders, ect?

I think I got it now LOL

Bruce

 

I'm not Rmus but hope I can help.

Correct

Yes you could allow changes even in shadowmode. No you would not need any other media besides your hard drive. ShadowUser will allow the changes to a specific folder or file on the drive they reside on. It is really great.

Hope this helps and please ask if you need more info.,

Chris

 

Thank You Chris


I can only see a few security problems but the good outweigh the bad here.

Using Shadowsurfer and wanting to keep e-mail you would need to be out of shadowmode which leaves you unprotected unless you have an AV to monitor mail, which most do now. You are still left open if your AV doesn't cover the nasty at the time. This would go for Shadowuser also if you saved changes but this is true if you are using shadowuser-surfer or not.

Just from what I see so far it is wise to use a good firewall while in shadowmode and also use an AV if you plan on saving e-mails.
I can also see a product such as PG is not needed while in Shadow mode but IS needed anytime you are out of Shadow mode and are installing new software. Unless you are using shadowuser and want to save PG changes while in Shadowmode.
I am guessing most home usersa would be ok with Shadowsurfer & an good Firewall and AV.
I am thinking for people that are software junkies such as me, Shadowuser would be the best choice.

It is fun to use it as a magic trick. You are infront of someone and you say , hey watch this. You then delete all the desktop icons & empty the recycle bin. They look at you sideways witha startled loo. You then reboot and there everything is again.

I think software such as this is a must need for testers

I suppose they don't have a curreent beta running ?

Bruce

 

Not correct.

You still need PG running in SM due to the fact that if your Shadow Volume were to have a successful malware infection/penetration during the session, you'd still be vulnerable to data theft of anything that was running within the session (and possibly to having your machine used as a spam-bot if your email program's running or as an attack bot against someone else while within the infected Shadow session - although that's reaching).

I run PG within SU sessions specifically to prevent that possibility - with PG set to "Block new and changed applications" and "Locked" (for other users).

Needless to say, you can run it without PG that way (and would actually have to if you were simply trying out new programs), and I just change out of blocked/locked as needed if I'm running an SU session on my profile.

Or at least, that's the way I see it. If you have PG, there's certainly no reason not to run it "cocked and locked" in SM, performance-wise, and the whole session is better-protected that way. Pete

 

Any way you cut that, it's still a dis-advantage of using DF instead of SU. I don't know about your A/V-A/T programs, but mine update when they feel like it in the case of NOD32 and EWIDO (and probably others).

I want that update as soon as it happens - and with SU (when your defensive programs are running within the Shadow session) I get them right then because my defensive programs are all in SU's "Exclusions" list - those changes do get written back to the actual files right then.

There's no use whatsoever in having A/V - A/T programs that "push" updates (and thus protect you better from the most-recent threats) if those programs can't update automatically whenever they need to - which is exactly the situation you're outlining with the use of DF.

You've lost me there - what in the world are you talking about? Pete

 

Hi Pete

I was wondering when you would show up

This is my first day trialing Shadowsurfer so I am still trying to get a handle on things.

I was thinking if using Shadowsurfer, not Shadouser, I would have to do all my security app updates out of shadow mode. My understanding was
I could use PG with Shadowuser. I am not sure what I will try with my machines as far as apps go but was thinking of trying either Spysweeper
or Ghost Surf with it too. I have TDS-3, Wormguard, Port Explorer by DCS.
I have Regdefend, Bo-Clean, Spysweeper & Ghostsurf that are paid for.
At present I have no AV or Firewall paid versions, just my router.
The HP laptop I just reformated last night has Shadowsurfer on right now with no other security apps.
One thing I noticed was after comming back from uptown, my laptop was hibernating and wouldn't come out of it. Since I am not sure this was a problem before installing Shadowsurfer, I can't tell if this is a common problem with Shadowsurfer or not yet.

Have you heard of any trouble using Shadowsurfer comming back from hibernation?

Bruce

 

I was thinking of using shadowsurfer to test some new security suites but if I can't come out of hibernation with out shutting down, I would lose the install

I am thinking this is a pretty cool App Pete


Thanks for bringing it to my attention



Bruce

 

I'm not reading anything about problems coming out of hibernation, Bruce. I don't use the hibernation feature, myself, here.

I'll BBL - gotta go look at a dog. Pete

 

Based on my experiences with Deep Freeze, I'm assuming you can't hibernate.

When the system hibernates, it saves RAM to the HD in the hyberfil.sys file.

In ShadowMode, nothing can be written to the HD, so the system can't create the hyberfil.sys file.

Deep Freeze has the same limitation; although it works in a different manner than ShadowUser/Surfer, nothing can be written to the HD while in the frozen state.

---
Rmus

 

Bruce - I turned in a support question on it to be sure. I also just now discovered that they have their own user-forum: http://forums.shadowstor.com/Forums/ , so that should help, too. Pete

* http://forums.shadowstor.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=11

 

Hey Pete

I was at the lake all weekend and now am back in the big city.
Thanks for the forum link. I am sure I will join.
Must be a new froum the way it looks.

What kind of Dog are you looking at?

I would love to get a good Pheasent puppy.

My latest purchase is a 50 Cal. Desert Eagle. This is my new deer hunting pistol. I got the titanium gold. This past fall I shot a nice 9 point buck with my savage 260 pistol.

Bruce

 

I just tried to hibernate a bit ago with SU 2.5 and had no problem with XP Home SP2. I'm not sure why this is possible but it worked for me. Maybe Petes question in the SU forum will provide an answer.

Hope this helps,

Chris

 

Actualy I am not sure now what happened.

My son complained about the monitor going black while doing school work.
I thought a format and fresh install would maybe help & for sure count out
nasties or a bad sys file. I did see the screen go almost black once last night. It lost almost all of it's brightness. I think it is the inverter but upgraded the video driver just to make sure. It only happened once in 4 hours of continuious use so it isn't a biggy.

Now for the Hibernation thing. I didn't think I was gone long enough for hibernation to kick in. I was gone maybe 2 hours max.


with AC attached my power options are as follows.

turn off monitor after 15 min.
turn off hard disk after 30 min
system standby after 20 min
system hibernation after 3 hours

I will leave it on while going to work today and see if it happens again.
This time I will know if it is a hardwear issue or a power option for sure.

Is Shadowstor a new company or is the forum just new? OR does the product work so well nobody posts there? LOL


Bruce

 

I'm not a hibernation type guy so someone correct me if I am wrong. I think you are talking about 2 different things. Hibernation you setup in display properties as well as standby but you have to manually go into hibernation.

Here are some links:

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/...Windows/XP/all/reskit/en-us/prdc_mcc_jiox.asp

http://www.activewin.com/winxp/tips/shutdown/2.shtml

Hope this helps,

Chris

 

Yes Chris You can either go to proterties or control panel & click power options. WIndows always has a million ways to do the same thing LOL

I usualy turn off Hibernate also but when I am testing mode, I like to leave things default This is usualy how most home users operate their computers.

Now as far as Hibernate goes, yes you can do it manualy or after your time setting it auto does it. In my last post, my Hinernate kicks in after 3 hours.

As you mentioned it can be set when closing lid ect.

Bruce

 

Well I was using the product on a WinXP Sp1 machine and then one day the machine would not reboot. There was no way to get the product uninstalled so I spent the next two days reinstalling XP and the associated apps on the computer.

 

That's a bummer. I've made it happen on purpose (MIHOP) several times but I also know how to avoid it. There are several things you can't do while in frozen state, and there is a wrong way to uninstall. If you look over this topic I'm sure you'll find the reason!

It took you two days to reinstall XP? Wow. You have GOT to get some kind of backup program. Using Drive Image I can restore XP in under 10 minutes!

 

enduser999 - Which program are you referring to - Shadow or DF? Was there some reason that you specifically suspected whichever program it was of being the cause of the failure to re-boot? Pete

 

I have seen many virus that continually reinfected in deep freeze computers.

Does it allow for updates while protecting it from being modified otherwise no it has to be turned off.

I find computer start to run slower and the network becouse the information is still there so it can be recouverd.
Most of the probliems thet the compeny say can't happen I have seen happen.
and someone will find a weakness.
I like get antivirus the most.

 

ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE!!! I have been using Deep Freeze Standard for weeks on a setup where only the C drive was frozen and the rest of other drives and partitions were not frozen. I was happy with it and recommended it to many people about this amazing software, until I hit a MAJOR snag. I was in the process of moving important files from a unfrozen partition to an external firewire drive, when I LOST ALL MY FILES because Deep Freeze Standard for some odd reason decided on its own to freeze even my unfrozen external firewire drive. Heck, I LOST EVERYTHING!!! The worst part is that you have to pay again to get an update! ARRRRHHK!!!

 

Was considering DeepFreeze and ShadowUser. If I had 2 HDD's I would have gone with Deepfreeze, frozen C, and used D for my apps that needed frequent updating, and file saving, and computer games. But as it is, SU seemed a lot more userfriendly to me, and as I could use a single drive for it, I knew that PrevX and PG would secure the 'exclusions list' folders <which I knew PrevX couldn't do on D:> ... so I went with ShadowUser

The way I see it, both programs work very well for keeping your system in working order.

The weaknesses to me, are as follows :

1. What's protecting you from infection when you are out of frozen/shadow mode to install a application/fix a program setting ? Nothing...unless you have other security apps.

2. You have to save your 'save as'/update/games data to a separate HDD or Partition (or in SU's case an exclusion folder)...therefore you need security to prevent that HDD/Partition/Exclusion folder from becoming infected.

3. Nothing protects your computer from infection while frozen/shadowed. This is only temporary (until reboot), so you should do your internet banking straight after a reboot.

It's major benefit is :

1. Keeps your machine working as good as the day you finished setting it up
2. Reboot and the problems gone (with the prossible exeptions of the above 3 weaknesses).

 

The more I think about DeepFreeze the more I'm inclined to think it's really only good for public computers or computers basically being used as terminals. I was thinking about it for some of the less savvy users I know and do work for, but the problem is that even they want to do things like install scanners and such. In the longrun this would only make things more complicated for them. For myself, I'd prefer to just stick with my Acronis True Image.

I've seen this as well.

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way bashing this product or trying to turn people away from it, but I think anyone considering it should really think about it for a good long while before jumping on it.