Comodo Aquires BoClean!

Discussion in 'other anti-trojan software' started by Mele20, Mar 28, 2007.

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  1. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    I really do not see how Comodo is at fault here. Comodo agreed to the acquisition because they obviously felt NSClean's staff are skilled and would come of use to Comodo. Personally, I do not see BOClean disintegrating anytime soon. All of Kevin's staff is still here, and now they've got even more people working. BOClean will at least maintain its current efficiency.

    The point of whom it should have been sold to is moot. The acquisition is done and NSClean did what they thought best. If you really think Grisoft and Comodo are "large, faceless" corporations then you need to realise that in the grand scale Grisoft and Comodo itself are very small companies. Such alliances are for the best, not for killing good products.

    AVG didn't exactly rape Ewido did they? They made an AVG paint job, allowed Ewido full access to AVG's sample database (unconfirmed but most likely true), allowed them to continue retaining their current focus, and also allowed the lifetime licenses to be honoured. To be honest, I think grisoft has done an excellent job with Ewido.

    As for Comodo, sure they are not very experienced, but I highly doubt this acquisition will degrade BOClean's quality. Time will tell, though. Nancy and Kevin, its good to see that you have now got the resources needed. In the end, good things will always happen to good people. ;)
     
  2. Kevin McAleavey

    Kevin McAleavey Security Expert

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    Back in 1998, Privacy Software (Nancy and I) birthed a product called BOClean. At the time, we did so for free as a new breed of Windows "virus" called "backdoors" emerged in mass quantities and were constructed in such a way that any non-technical "script kiddie" could readily take over the machines of innocent people and gain complete control of them. And while "Back Orifice" or "BO" was what we based our name on, there were earlier ones and we were absolutely dismayed to read that the traditional antivirus companies *refused* to cover them because they weren't "file infectors" or traditional "viruses."

    When we tried to explain to them that these were even worse than "viruses," our commentaries fell on the deaf ears of an entire industry which was still applying the computer solutions of the early 1980's when the internet didn't yet exist as we know it in the middle of the 1990's. We gave the 1.0 version of BOClean away for free as a service to our existing NSClean and IEClean customers because we fully expected the antivirus industry to come to their senses soon and this "BOClean" would end up being a "novelty product" much the same as other "crisis solution" freebies we've done over the years such as "SockLock," "HTAStop" and others. BOY were WE wrong! :(

    As time trudged on, some of these were picked up by the antiviruses, most were not. Other malware known as "spyware" came along and various antivirus-like "file scanners" arose to meet the need to about the same level of quality as that of the antiviruses. Folks became accustomed to "scanning their files" after the fact whereas we saw the need for something a bit more proactive in stopping them as soon as they began to run with an emphasis on studying the authors of the malware and their traits in order to do our very best to catch their "next move" before they made it. We also realized that hiring up people to help us do this as the number of these began to creep up became necessary and thus we had to convert BOClean from a free product to one that would bring in revenue to pay for additional people.

    For BOClean to be useful and not shut off as most "file scanners" were typically required a very unique design. It had to be very lightweight, light on resources and yet had to be "zero touch" as far as the "desktop users" went. Our original customers were corporate "IT" departments who wanted to install this on their desktops to take care of "trojans" and other "malware" automatically since it became rather costly to deploy people to do this manually across organizations. But if we followed the traditional methods, BOClean would have become as unwieldy as most AVs and in the real world, many people do shut off or fail to update their antiviruses and end up with no protection at all.

    As time went on, "stealth" methods became very popular among the various malcontents and since antiviruses were based on simple file pattern matching or at best "heuristics" and "unpacking engines," they improved somewhat but still were easily gotten around at the file detection level as a result of many obscuring techniques. However, when bad stuff actually went to run, it had to be resolved in memory to that which could actually run. We designed BOClean to catch whatever got past "active guards" and other techniques of the antiviruses after the antivirus/scanner programs already had their chance and let it run anyway.

    In the past couple of years, a literal explosion of malware has occurred. More and more resources were required in order to maintain our original promises, yet revenue kept declining. Our corporate customers also were subject to tightening of IT budgets and since the AV's were doing more than they were before, sales began falling off in the past few years because their own budgets forced them to buy one product and if machines still got hosed, the solution was to just wipe the drive entirely.

    And so, we got trapped between more and more nasties every day and less and less money coming in. It eventually hit a point this past year where I was working between 28 and 40 hours in a single shift, catching some sleep and going back at it again struggling to keep up. In the meantime, BOClean itself has languished from a lack of time to add improvements and new features. FORTUNATELY, the existing BOClean has continued to work adequately to continue doing its job. But it needs work, it needs new code and "Vista" was the straw that broke our back.

    Nancy has already explained that we tried to shop BOClean around to a number of companies who make "file scanners" of various sorts however our own design is SO unique that many just didn't get it and the few that did understand what we are doing were too concerned about the potential cost of "intergrating" BOClean into their existing products without even examining its innards and understanding them.

    When we were first approached by COMODO, I have to admit that I was swayed by the opinions of the so-called "experts" and was quite skeptical of them when they expressed interest in working with us, partnering, or perhaps acquiring BOClean themselves. In fact, it wasn't until I MET Melih in person that I came to realize just how WRONG the judgements of COMODO among the public in these forums truly are.

    I grew up in the Bronx. I can spot a "sidewalk act" a mile away. My own background is in electronics engineering. So is Melih's. Anyone who's been angered by my "off the cuff" remarks over the years should realize that "uber-geeks" may not be the ones you want out in public talking about technical stuff because the tendency of personalities such as my own are "I don't have time for bullsquirt" and it's sometimes very hard to take some concepts and get them across without coming off like some arrogant, condescending "know it all." Lord knows I've done that too often myself.

    What I found in Melih is someone with a GENUINE commitment to always doing the right thing for everybody but we both march to our own drummers and can be rather awkward in getting a point across without likely insulting someone fully meaning not to. I also found that Melih is VERY sincere in using his resources for highly altruistic purposes just like I did when I had money coming in. I *fully* believe in Melih and COMODO and I believe anyone who believes in Nancy and I should step back, give us a chance for a little while and see if you're not as surprised as I am.

    COMODO's products are new and in a constant state of improvement. Melih asked me to come aboard to not only continue to maintain BOClean, but also to assist in greatly improving their antivirus product until it is as well-regarded as BOClean has been and then from there, make it better than ANY other "file scanner." Melih also has committed to KEEPING BOClean the same concept that it always has been, and a SEPARATE option for COMODO users. Instead of a "suite," Melih and I have agreed to allow folks to choose whatever they feel they need from a smorgasbord of what makes THEM feel comfortable for their own needs. In other words, BOClean will REMAIN as it is, it will only improve. And finally I will be able to get back to all of that code I've wanted to write to bring BOClean forward. At the same time, I now get a collection of extremely talented analysts who will be working directly for ME. This in turn will change BOClean's once or twice a day updates to probably hourly or perhaps even more often.

    And COMODO's antivirus will also be MY responsibility along with a separate group of analysts and some very seriously talented programmers and will take off in an entirely new direction from that of traditional antiviruses just as BOClean did eight years ago. People have become used to relying on 1980's solutions and more and more people and companies seem to think there's a gold mine in yet another scanner. What I'm bringing to COMODO and they're going to give me the resources to accomplish will be a TRUE eye-opener.

    Dealing with nasties AFTER the fact is as tired as 1980's music. Solutions to keep from getting infected with anything bad is what this entire industry SHOULD have been doing in the 90's and it's sad to see that the same old tired stuff remains the answer today. I'm VERY pleased and confident after several days with Melih and my new teams that the best is yet to come. And SOON! At least as soon as we can put together the new code that's been sitting into a 4.23 ... if there were actually any earth-shattering changes, I'd bet COMODO would want to call it 5.something!

    So for anyone that's still doubting, I wouldn't have "stepped in it" if I didn't have ABSOLUTE faith in WHO and WHAT I'm stepping in. Give us a few weeks, a few months ... I'm staking my reputation and my LIFE on all this. And for the wangers and doubters, get over yerselves. I finally get to EAT again! :)

    Seriously, folks ... there will be *no* downside!
     
  3. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    It is very nice to hear your thoughts, Kevin. I did, however, have one question: Why is Comodo AV having a separate team of analysts working under you? Wouldn't it be best to unify all the analysts and have them work on both BOClean and CAV?

    I'm still young and do not have the slightest experience in management, but I would appreciate it if someone could answer why. :)

    I have full faith in your's and Melih's commitment to security. No doubt the next few years will bring some sweeping changes in the industry. :)
     
  4. Meriadoc

    Meriadoc Registered Member

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    Thanks for the post, look forward to seeing what comes out of this - good luck.
     
  5. R. Morris

    R. Morris Registered Member

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    I don't speak for Kevin but I believe this is a great move and will benefit
    us all.
    Comodo should be congratulated on both their acquisition of the program and
    the programmer.
    Their products and customers will certainly benefit from this coup as will
    the BOClean customers.
    Full disclosure: Former BOClean affiliate
    ;-)

    ~catseyenu~
     
  6. danny9

    danny9 Departed Friend

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    Kevin, Thanks for the post
    I have to admit I am one of the doubters.
    Not many programs go to a new co. and retain their excellence or improve.
    Nancy and yourself have always been upfront and honest with us.
    If you say you will be in charge and keep it the same and even improve it, I'll believe you as well as anyone else who has known you through the years.
    I am happy for the both of you and wish you much future success!
    Now, go have that dinner, you deserve it!!:cool:
     
  7. LoneWolf

    LoneWolf Registered Member

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    Thank you Kevin,that makes me feel alot better.
     
  8. Kevin McAleavey

    Kevin McAleavey Security Expert

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    Thanks for the kind words, and from what I've seen and discussed across a good part of the various COMODO people is that the major "sweeping" changes will be sooner, rather than later. The situation with having a separate team for BOClean and the antivirus at this early point is that BOClean is so completely different from the "file-scan" mentality that we don't do any of the things that antiviruses do. AV's, AT's and AS's focus on the FILE system whereas BOClean focuses on system memory and the kernel. It's an entirely different direction from "file-scanning" and what I need to do at this point is get the analysis monkey off my back so that I can return to code work and have people just as competent at it as we have been all these years.

    Meanwhile, the AV people are going about things within the realm of that great old 1980's mindset that folks believe in and what the BOClean folks do and what the AV people do are that intrinsically different. For now, the priority is making certain that BOClean doesn't slip nor does the AV. COMODO now has access to all of the samples WE'VE been collecting so everyone is looking at and getting the same stuff but each "product" goes about handling these in different ways. Eventually, everyone will be able to do it both ways and be completely interchangeable but for now, the BOClean way is kind of a shock for folks who are used to the traditional means.

    Internally, everything will indeed be shared with some people looking at a nasty one way, the others looking for other things and between the two "disciplines" both products will complement one another. The ability to do things this way is just one of MANY things I truly appreciate about what COMODO is willing to let me do. And there are many more new directions which will come of all of this as well which I'm not at liberty to discuss. I'm dead serious though, the best is yet to come and I see COMODO rapidly inching its way to the only thing anyone will ever need. We're not there yet, but we WILL be! :)

    Anyhoo, my plate right now is more full than it was a week ago, but there's FOOD in the fridge! Please forgive me all if I don't have much time for the forums in the coming days of transition ... but the good news is once I get all these gears meshed, I'm gonna be here to hang out and have FUN again like I used to be able to do years ago!
     
  9. Metal425

    Metal425 Registered Member

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    Any news on when the free BoClean is going to be released?
     
  10. Kevin McAleavey

    Kevin McAleavey Security Expert

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    OK, one last and then I *have* to get to work and won't be back for a few days. Melih and I *want* to get it out sometime next week, that's the *goal*. I can guarantee that we can do it by then for certain if we completely stop doing malware analysis completely and concentrate solely on that. But it's *MY* call and as always, getting those updates out MUST come first even if it causes a slip in the deadline for another day or three. Sorry, I have a DUTY to ensure that those who PAID for BOClean get the support *I* promised and the updates *I* promised. For those who will be getting it free however, there's a COMODO forum ... question can be asked and tracked over there. My duty right now though is to those who paid and are now unpleasantly surprised. Anyone who's known Nancy and I over the years knows that a promise made is a promise kept and I gotta ensure that doesn't change.

    So since I don't speak for COMODO but I *do* speak for BOClean, as soon as humanly possible, it'll be out. I don't believe in releasing duds either. :)
     
  11. sukarof

    sukarof Registered Member

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    Thanks for coming in and setting things straight Kevin and Nancy.

    I am just a bit amused that since no one knew the facts they started to bash Comodo (and some Comodo´s CEO as if that has anything to do with how the software works o_O )
    I dont think that even Kevin´s explanation will soothe their minds. Once moaning has started it will live its own life on the net. I could too fall into that trap easily, I have one or two things to say about Sunbelt as a company for example, but choose not to since I dont see any point in bash them without clear poof.

    I have read about Boclean functions and heard praise from people I know to know what they are talking about, but I didnt like the "buy before you" try model so I never came round to try it.
     
  12. danny9

    danny9 Departed Friend

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    Understandable I guess. Others feel the same.
    I have tried a few over the yrs. and asked for my money back and have never been disappointed yet.

    As far as BOClean, now that Kevin has come forward, I believe him and will wait to see what happens.
    Who knows, it might end up to be better then it was.
    Time will tell! :cool:
     
  13. JRCATES

    JRCATES Registered Member

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    One thing that I don't recall seeing.....is HOW this "change" is actually going to take place for registered BOClean users who have already paid for the product and have it on their machines.

    Will they (we) have to "uninstall their current version, and reinstall a *new* version"?

    Or will they continue on as though nothing is different...same files/folders/directories, etc. for BOClean, same installation/copy that is currently on the machine, with the same pattern of updates and email notifications, etc. - basically, business as usual?
     
  14. acr1965

    acr1965 Registered Member

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    Well this is certainly exciting news. Lot's of people have been asking why Comodo would take over a company like BOClean and then offer the product for free. BOClean certainly will add prestige to the security products offered by Comodo. But that also applies to their OEM sales which will surely increase now.

    As for the ones wondering if BOClean's particular legal standing in NY and how that will play out since Comodo has acquired the company, I don't think Comodo will back down from some malware company. Comodo has corporate offices in six countries, they are not some small operation. I am not up to date with federal law but I would be surprised if a malware company could still skirt around legal definitions and get away with the same legal threats that they were able to make a few years back. The laws would seem to be changing in the favor of consumer protection as opposed to malware companies.

    Finally, it is nice to see those that run Comodo and BOClean make public announcements and message board posts about what all is going on. It was not long ago that CA took over Tiny Personal Firewall and pretty much turned their noses up at everyone, including those with current subscriptions- no support, nothing. Just waited for subscriptions to dry up before doing anything with the product. I think Comodo operates on a higher level than CA- heck most any company operates at a higher level than CA. But anyway, this could turn out really well for all involved.
     
  15. danny9

    danny9 Departed Friend

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    From what Kevin was saying it does sound like business as usual.
    If a new release comes out down the pike it will apply to all of us,
    past, present and future users.
    Don't forget, we bought our version from a co. that no longer exists.
    But I would have gladly paid a yearly subscription fee for BOClean.
    I think it was that good.
    The new users should be thankful to Comodo to get this program for free now!:cool:
     
  16. strangequark

    strangequark Registered Member

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    Me too !
     
  17. halcyon

    halcyon Registered Member

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    Interesting. We'll see how this plays out. I wish the best of luck to all at Comodo. They are already changing the fw landscape, I hope this does good for the AT.

    One thing puzzles me though: Comodo's business logic is a bit odd.

    I know it's possible to do altruistic things as long as the company remains in tight ownership and fairly small.

    If it grows, the money grabbers, efficiency optimizers and core competence guys come in.

    "What is this what we are doing? Giving away software? It costs dollars to develop! Let's just cut it out."

    etc.

    Well, let's enjoy the offering as long as it lasts. I don't think anybody can (or should be forced) to offer more.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2007
  18. Kevin McAleavey

    Kevin McAleavey Security Expert

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    I *pray* that our forum leaders here won't mind me adding one last piece to all this, I've explained myself to them privately and explained that I'm not here to kiss COMODO ... as Mehli has *already* learned, "MY way or byebye" ... and we AGREED to the righteousness of BOTH of our attitudes towards the reality of this toilet which has become of the "intarwebs" ... we BOTH agree on doing the right thing always (genuine "TRUST") and THAT is why Nancy signed off Privacy Software to COMODO ... we ALL made promises to each other which will be KEPT or *I* am outta there ... though NO worries on MY part, Mehli and I are two peas in a pod ... Seriously! I have absolute faith that what we agreed to, beyond the lawyers, will be HONORED, or I will make *such* a stink! Heh.

    The promises BOClean made to our PAYING customers are PARAMOUNT! They WILL be honored ... once BOClean becomes "free" then the usual "accoutrements" of "free" apply. But for those of you who were with us and PAID for BOClean ... rest assured, the level of support you ALWAYS got will not change ... when Nancy and I made promises, they were made with the intent to KEEP them. Mehli understands this, and that won't change. Just want to assure everybody that when 4.23 is released as soon as is possible (STILL doing tonight's update) that for those of you who've been with us for a while, 4.23 will actually give you a LICENCE number which will PROVE the loyalty you've given Nancy and I ... you'll have a LIFETIME serial number which will validate your "past loyalties to PSC" no matter WHAT happens in the future ... and 4.23 *will* be "Vista happy" even if Billy futtbucked the industry after that "bullsquirt release candiate, all WILL work when we ship Vista" nonsense that burned our company to the ground. :(

    LEGIT purchaser of BOClean? 4.23 *will* please you! The updater is IN BOClean itself with the "new code" AND ... a few other NICE little anti-rootkit stuff. *I* use BOClean and am testing out "COMODO BOClean antipyware" at this moment ... we just MIGHT get it out last week depending on how insane the ZLOB, VXGAME and OTHER malware is ... last few days, NOTHING NEW! But of course, come Thursdays through the weekends, your mileage may vary.

    SERIOUSLY, I'm putting *MY* name on this ... and I wouldn't DARE at the age of 56 now and having little ahead, ruin my reputation. I blow *THIS* and I might as well cast myself out on a damned ice flow. Heh. I take my relationships as seriously as all I've done for everyone all these years. THINK about where I'm putting myself here and yet I do so VOLUNTARILY!

    ("this MEANS something!" heh)
     
  19. Adric

    Adric Registered Member

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    Yikes, I totally missed that post. Sorry, I take it all back. :D

    Al
     
  20. BlueZannetti

    BlueZannetti Registered Member

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    Well, not really. They have provided a brief view of that here. Structurally, it's the style of model followed by many media and other information based companies - revenue is developed as an offshoot of a freely provided service (example - free services + many eyeballs = attractive captive/targeted audience to paid advertisers: i.e. google.com).

    It's a structure that has been shown to work in some cases, that doesn't mean it will work in this case, but they might as well be given the opportunity to succeed or fail on the merits of their efforts and execution.

    Despite the hand wringing here, people should realize that one other option for PSC was to court the very real risk implosion by being unable to maintain pace with malware. Is that really a better option?

    Blue
     
  21. Get

    Get Guest

    Wait and see how it all develops, but having encouraged someone into buying Boclean not so long ago this is good to hear :).
     
  22. CJsDad

    CJsDad Registered Member

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    Thanks for the explanation Nancy.

    To Kevin, as a paid user of BOClean and after reading your posts here in this thread you have put my mind at ease. I also would like to thank you for taking your time and explaining this situation in such detail.
     
  23. Kevin McAleavey

    Kevin McAleavey Security Expert

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    Dammit, Blue! (missed having the time to say, "'allo") Reality was that if we were EVER in this for the money, all I can say is that more than four times a week, we've been REPEATLY offered "gane mas dinero" from the SPAMBOT squad to "ignore THIS one" and even "write us rootkits" and such. For all those morons that thought that Nancy and I could ever be "money-whores," OH the US$'s we've been offered over the years to take what we know and go over to the "dark side" ... and from what WE know with BOClean as well as the uselessness of our "competitors," it woulda been *SO* easy ... but still ... we NEVER coulda though we wouldn't have been eating dog food the past couple of years, and I wouldn't have had to declare PERSONAL bankruptcy in order to keep Nancy's company from going down. Some folks wonder WHY I've been so twisted the past couple of years?

    KEEPING our promises have cost us dearly. I've always worked my butt off (as has Nancy)...

    ~ snip ~

    I'm ENJOYING these moments of TRUTH, since I *cannot* be sued because well ... I ain't worth SQUAT! Heh. Like back inthe days of that NETBUS bullsuirt before BOClean had an OPTIONAL "excluder" ... WANT Netbus run? EXCLUDE IT! After the first legal qwap, BOClean EVOLVED ... do you really WANT malware running? EXCLUDE it and BOClean will ignore it, so long as YOU say it's OK (along with the mechanisms to say "ignore" at YOUR choice) ...

    When NTBUS sued us, we provided an option. When there were MORE, we said "this is INSANE" and provided an EXCLUDE screen wereupon we went WAY past all that legal "netbus" stuff and said "if you REALLY want to run that, EXCLUDE it and made all those arguments bogus YEARS ago. :p

    ~ snip ~
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2007
  24. fphall

    fphall Registered Member

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    Well, I for one feel more comfortable after having read the replies from Nancy and Kevin. I trust their judgement and integrity and have no doubt that they will do right by all of the former subscribers. As for BOClean getting better, I'm all for that. I can hardly wait to see what Kevin has is store for us. :)
     
  25. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    We're back, minus only a few comments. Let's try to stick with discussion of the acquisition itself and not focus on any specific individuals, if it can be helped.
     
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