Cloned drive won't boot

I've used Acronis TI 6.0 and 8.0 for years to clone without problems. Over a year ago, I reformatted a HD with XP sp2 and used ATI 8.0 to clone the drive and unplugged the clone. The original HD started acting up recently, so I'm now on the cloned drive and it works great as they always have. I updated all the programs etc. and then used the clone to clone back to the original drive and everything went well, I thought. In My Computer it shows the two drives. The old clone that's working as C: and the new clone as D: and both drives with 4.08 GB of used space. I unplugged the C: and plugged the new clone that was D: to he end of the IDE cable, but it won't boot. My drives are all set on CS. Windows can't find the drive. So I rehooked up the clone that works and used a different drive to clone and I still have the problem, so it's not the drive. I thought after the cloning process, both drive would be C: drives. Any help would be appreciated.
Thank,
Steve

 

Just a thought. Try installing only one drive at a time. Set the drive that you are trying to boot from as Primary Master instead of using Cable select. I've seen where using CS has been problematic in some systems.

 

steveham,

It looks like you broke this rule, "do not let old-XP see the new partition before cloning".

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm

Not to worry. Leave your new HD attached as Master or end of cable if Cable Select. Then use Method #3 and it will boot.

http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm#method3

 

I first tried Bruce Mahnke's suggestion of changing the jumper to master instead of CS, with only the one drive at end of cable.....same problem.
Next I tried Brian K's suggestion and used the method 3 "fdisk /mbr" using a win98 startup disk. This didn't change anything. Method 2 won't work because the drive won't boot. So Saveport is the only thing to try now? Oh my, this is very frustrating!
Thanks

 

steveham,

Strange, should have worked. I've deliberately made that mistake and zeroing the disk ID fixes the problem (fdisk /mbr). What error message do you see when it won't boot? Does it freeze around the Welcome Screen stage with no text on the screen, just the WinXP logo?

 

If you try to boot with both attached, on will get marked as not a system drive and it won't be bootable from then on no matter has you atatch the drives -- until you reclone/rewrite the disk. Win won't tolerate two win sys drives.

sh

 

Brian K,

This is the error message:
It waits at the Dell logo (with F2 = Setup and F12 = Boot Menu at top right of screen) for a good part of a minute.
Then the text message with black background reads:

Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS version 1.10 A03
Copy right....... bla, bla.....
Copy right....... bla, bla.....
All Rights Reserved

Dell System Dimension 8200
www.dell.com

Primary hard disk drive 1 not found.
Strike the F1 key to continue, F2 to run the setup utility.

Now the good news:

The first time I used the F1 key, it booted back to the same "Primary hard disk drive 1 not found" screen. The second time I used F1 it booted into WinXP in a normal way.....GREAT!!
I tried F2 and it boots to the setup screen. I then use the Esc key to exit and it boots into Windows.
My Computer shows the drive as C: and the clone drive seams normal in every way, except the boot. But the computer still boot to the "Primary hard disk drive 1 not found" screen. I'm at least getting close to the fix.

Shieber,
When Acronis finishes the cloning process, it boots with both drives. Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Steve

 

Steve, good news. That's a BIOS recognition problem. Which Dell do you have?

Press F2 to enter the BIOS, go to IDE Configuration and make sure your new HD is the only one present or change any errant values.

Freezing at the Welcome Screen is the incorrect drive letter problem and is fixed by fdisk /mbr.

Let us know what you find.

 

Brian K,

The Dell is a 8200 Dimension. I don't see an IDE configuration option.
It shows the Primary Drive 0 HD Model which is correct. Boot Sequence: Diskette, HD, CD-ROM. Integrated Devices (LegacySelect Options) with the IDE Drive Interface auto/off which is on Auto.

I've already tried the fdisk /mbr before which didn't help.

Thanks,
Steve

 

Steve, I was quoting the wrong BIOS. I looked at yours and the Primary drive 0 should be AUTO as should Primary drive 1. However sometimes this produces errors such as you are seeing. Try pressing Enter on the Primary drive 1, highlight Drive Type and use the - key to find OFF (may have to use the + key too), press Enter. It will now say Unknown Device. Save your changes and exit.

Does it boot properly now?

You can always change the settings back if it doesn't work.

Let me know.

 

To summarize info already stated:

Post #10 It shows the Primary Drive 0 HD Model which is correct.

Post #7 Primary hard disk drive 1 not found.

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8200/syssetup.htm#1097056

Specs indicate:
primary is Drive 0 set to auto. "Off" is the default postition for drives not attached.
Drive 0 is on primary controller (ribbon cable #1)
Drive 1 is on the secondary controller--(ribbon cable #2); plus this the ribbon that your CDRom drive is probably using.

Error msg refers to drive 1....(secondary controller on ribbon 2)
If the drive is
..securely attached to ribbon cable #1;
..jumpered as master;
..attached to end connector;
..no other hard drives attached and bios set to off for non-attached drives
then Error seems to point back to the mbr problem.

You could try the Win98Boot Disk instructions again:
..run the floppy command prompt again
A:\ FDISK /MBR
remove the floppy, and reboot.

If it still fails to boot, then I would run the mfgr disk utility and wipe the drive clean removing all partitions and reclone (--using the Acronis Recovery CD) and power down as soon the the cloning is complete. Remove old drive and bootup using only one drive--attached to end connector on Cable 1--jumpered as master. Making sure that Windows does not see the new drive prior to cloning.

 

GroverH,

In his BIOS there is

Primary Drive 0
Primary Drive 1
Secondary Drive 0
Secondary Drive 1

The error was "Primary hard disk drive 1 not found".

I think having Primary Drive 1 set to OFF will fix the boot problem. Remember, he can boot to WinXP by pressing F1 so he has a valid MBR, a DiskID and Master Partition Table. That's why fdisk /mbr didn't work. These were valid.

 

Steve, here is a quote from the Ghost forum. Notice the similarity.

 

Brian K
Primary Drive 1.....Unknown Device (since no drive there) Drive Type....AUTO.
I've changed the Primary Drive 1, Drive Type to OFF and saved.
Now it boots every time without a problem......... WOW...I'm a happy guy!

I'm still a little confused and have a few questions, but I'll get back to the forum in a little while.

Thank you Brian! And a thanks to all of you.
Steve

 

Steve,

That's great. There are obviously several causes for non-booting after cloning. I should have asked earlier for your error description.

In addition to Dan Goodell's site, have a look at this. It's about Ghost 10 but the principles apply to cloning hard drives with any software. The errors are due to the way WinXP works.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1148252120;start=

 

Brian K,
Now that my computer boots and I'm thinking about doing another disk image, should I leave the Primary Drive 1 set to OFF if I go back to CS?
A:\ FDISK /MBR .... do the slashes have spaces? I'm sure I tried several ways.

Thanks again (everyone) for the help.

Steve

 

Steve, when you have a HD connected as Primary Drive 1 you should set it to AUTO in the BIOS. When I checked my daughter's Dell 8100 (same BIOS as yours) I was surprised to find that Primary Drive 1 and Secondary Drive 1 were both set to OFF even though there was a HD and CD drive attached and working. I changed both to AUTO and both continued to work and the models then appeared in the BIOS. So at times there is latitude.

With fdisk /mbr there is a space between k and /

Could I suggest that your technique of backup is not the most efficient. Several images would be much better than a single clone. I don't use clones at all. Even when upgrading to a new HD. Read Dan's reply #7. It's the best explanation of why clones shouldn't be used that I've read.

http://radified.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1132968474;start=7#7

What do you think now?

 

Brian, I don't use the Acronis image/clones for backups. It's always a last resort before using them. I have 4 kids (23 to 32 years) and they all have computers, 3 Dells and one ASUS mb home built as are my two machines. In fact, the Dell 8200 I've been working on is my daughters. They all have other people using their machines and no matter how much I try to teach them about keeping their computers free of problems, they always have problems, one kind or another. I backup everything I don't want to lose on my D drive and also DVDs. Over the years I've re-formatted may HDs and in most cases I agree with you that it's the best way to go, but not in my case. I've had terrific luck using Acronis clone drives this way.

You have a daughter with a Dell 8100, so you know a little about what I'm going through.

Thanks a million for all your help!

Steve

 

Steve, I haven't re-formatted for years because I have images. If the C drive becomes corrupt I restore yesterday's (or last week's image) and I'm up and running in 10 minutes. Restores are almost always to the same HD as software corruption is much more frequent than HD failure. I notice you inserted a 1 year old clone and had to install a lot of programs. If you restore yesterday's image to the same HD then the work has already been done.

I realize we all approach backup differently.