Best Eraser

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by n8chavez, May 12, 2008.

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  1. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Registered Member

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    Easter, given that it isn’t clear what the “Deletes Completely” functionality of RESTORATION does, it seems to me that the output of that process can’t be used to argue that an erase utility is working well or poorly. I think we need more information on what precisely this “Deletes Completely” does.

    Maybe you could perform a test, by running Evidence Eliminator to erase a single file, and then using WinHex to examine the Master File Table entry for that file before and after running RESETORATION? This might shed some light on what “Deletes Completely” means.

    Thank you.
     
  2. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Maybe i was being a bit vague or just leaning to my tendency to overeact to really efficient disk cleaning when i discover a sequence that seems to increase performance as well as Pulverize any previous tracks.

    What i found with EE is that it uniquely in it's own trademark fashion DOES absolutely CRUSH old data tracks to bits, making them for all intensive purposes, MUSH.

    RESTORATION evidences this fact simply by running it and reviewing the amount of data bytes which are tiny in comparison to what they were originally. The extra bonus i've now noticed is that EE in fact helps to accellerate the RESTORATION run and reduces the time IT used to take to complete a wipe of deleted files.

    EE's deleted files are virtually MUSH and so theres less data bytes for RESTORATION to wipe itself, if i understand all this clearly.

    I'm going to take the advice below you offered and re-examine with WinHex but from what i experienced so far i venture a guess that EE does a fairly substantial disembodying of the data completely. But i'll review WinHex details and see what stands out.

    I might also add, in my own routine i also use IDSuite.exe (Better known as Index.Dat Suite) to ensure full removals of index.dat files.
     
  3. cheater87

    cheater87 Registered Member

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    Eraser can over right up to 35 times. I think that should be good enough. :p
     
  4. n8chavez

    n8chavez Registered Member

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    Yes, but does Eraser accurately wiple cluster tips? Eraser does not eraser the MFT either, which is very important.
     
  5. rookieman

    rookieman Registered Member

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    Has anyone tried Eraser587 beta 1 on Vista?I just installed it but I haven't give it a run yet.Is any of those cleaners worth the moneyo_OPerhaps like was mentioned before,run Eraser and the use Restoration after to get rid of what's left.I've never used Eraser for cleaning for my hdd free space.I only used it for deleting programs from the recycle bin.Is there any performance gains by cleaning the free space on your hdd?By the way this subject is a very interesting read!Thanks to all for their take on this subject.:thumb:
     
  6. komugi

    komugi Registered Member

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    EASTER> Could you send that Restoration program to me, I am half-Japanese and am fairly fluent in Japanese, maybe I could be of some help.

    -email: komugi (at) gmail (dot) com
     
  7. rookieman

    rookieman Registered Member

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  8. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Registered Member

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    That is a to-be-answered question: what precisely does Restoration get rid of, after one or more files have already been successfully erased?

    P.S.: Personally, I would be quite hesitant to run a “deletes completely” function of a utility, unless I knew what it did.
     
  9. Carver

    Carver Registered Member

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    I used Restoration “deletes completely” function after a Eraser freespace run, my computer acting funny programs poped open when I opened an other program..pages took 9 minutes to load. Could be a coincidence, but I think not. I got back to normal with a sfc/scannow. I wouldn't use Restorations delete completety function.
     
  10. TVH

    TVH Registered Member

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    From what i understand, Restoration is a data recovery tool. Therefore, its primary function should be to recover deleted data.

    The only way to test what Restoration actually does would be to firstly scan the hard drive using various other data recovery software such as Recover My Files, Recover Lost Data to see what these tools are able to find. Then, run Restoration's delete completely function which should purge the drive of all remaining traces of the deleted data. Finally, scan the drive again with the data recovery tools which should result in significantly less files being detected if Restoration has done its job.
     
  11. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Registered Member

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    TVH, the question of interest is what the “deletes completely” function does – especially after files have already been erased (not just deleted) by a wipe utility. Stated differently, what exactly does “purge the drive of all remaining traces of the deleted data” mean, given that we are talking about erased files?

    Restoration seems to be indicating that traces of files that have been erased remain on the hard disk, but in the absence of knowing what the “deletes completely” precisely does, it is difficult to support such a conclusion.
     
  12. TVH

    TVH Registered Member

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    I apologise for not making this clear:

    The test i suggested would help to determine if Restorations delete completely function is doing what it says its doing ie. removing any left-over fragments. The test wont show exactly what the delete completely function does, but it is merely a method to check whether the file fragments that restoration seems to find are actually purged after using 'delete completely'.
     
  13. Kribe

    Kribe Registered Member

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    I asked my fiance over Restoration's 'replacing vacant clusters' function quickly yesterday before he left for business abroad. He works within a high ranked sub-section of governmental scientific research and development and usually has knowledge of these area's. He started my system and ran this utility to see.

    Clipboard01.png

    After seeing the output, a brief clip of which I've screenshot pasted above, his reply was: Windows reads in 4096 bytes of data, which is 8 sectors usually where one sector is 512 bytes and the above tool's function just writes 4096 bytes of data twice to each data block of 4096 bytes Windows is reading.

    However, I did not get the opportunity to ask, neither do I know, how the tool identifies the vacant sectors. Over my last phone call with him I asked briefly and he said it will most likely just overwrite the empty marked sectors, which looking at the above output, sounds close to accurate.

    Sorry my technical knowledge is weak, I only know bits and bats picked up from him.
     
  14. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    I either had a bad hard drive or EE really done a number on one (both) of my test drives (Seagates) while expierimenting with it and it returned me a consistent BSOD (Disk-Read-Error) every time. I went thru a significant group of emergency CD's to no avail and even ERD Commander wouldn't even start up o_O

    Only CHKDSK from the install CD finally solved the boot up issue and after i went thru a process of elimination and finally uninstalled EE, all issues ceased. I'm beginning to feel like EE is more of a full destructive wipe program to dispense with a hard drive instead of a simple full featured wipe app as i expected in the first place.

    This happened to me on 2 different HD's so i uninstalled it and all is well again now.

    I'm of the mind after this it's a major destroyer of data but also destroys more than just your run of the mill common privacy data now.

    Can anyone else confirm or dispute these type findings from experience?
     
  15. rookieman

    rookieman Registered Member

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    I ran the demo EE on Vista and every time I tried a scan it would it stop!This happened 3 times in a row so I deleted it.Is this the way the demo works?:(
     
  16. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    It's a mystery to me. One thing is sure, EE definitely goes over and under the disk it claims to thoroughly leave no traces which might be detectable as being a readable file or extension, but i never had a Seagate flop like this before untill trying EE on it. I always like to give the benefit of the doubt it might have been a HD going out of business, but then why didn't ANY of my ER discs help to remedy the boot up (BSOD) issue and only windows own CHKDSK repaired the problem.

    After uninstalling no such problems repeated again, this is on an XP Pro system.
     
  17. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    And this is what Restoration is doing on its' last step:
     

    Attached Files:

  18. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Never crossed my mind to use old filemon. Interesting screenshot, thanks.
     
  19. SKA

    SKA Registered Member

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  20. rookieman

    rookieman Registered Member

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    Interesting read,from what this say's EE is still using a older engine?Could this explain what happened to your hdds Easter??I couldn't even get it to run on Vista either??:doubt:
     
  21. jrmhng

    jrmhng Registered Member

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    This idea that having evidence eliminator is some kind of evidence that you have been up to no good is, from a legal perspective, completely intellectually bankrupt.

    A solution to all this is to just use whole disk encryption.
     
  22. EASTER

    EASTER Registered Member

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    Very Good Find, kind of sums things up wouldn't you agree?

    That might have just explained what i experienced. It was OK at first then things went downhill really fast.
     
  23. Pleonasm

    Pleonasm Registered Member

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    Spy1, other than documenting that Restoration writes to disk, I don’t see that the FileMon output (in post #67) explains what the utility is doing. Can you kindly elaborate?
     
  24. PiCo

    PiCo Registered Member

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  25. biggles

    biggles Registered Member

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    Hi, I've just registered here so I could reply to this thread, I've read this thread from beginning to end and it doesn't surprise me at all how several peoples arguments get somehow deviated from the main topic. Privacy is somewhat taboo these days.

    This reply is directed to n8chavez's initial question about which is/are the best eraser app. btw I didn't do research for Linux or Mac OS but I will do it someday(maybe 2 yrs. from now). I may not have advanced knowledge in how a PC retains or handles data or any forensic experience but I'm studying computer architecture and assembly language right now.

    In my opinion and well... not so highly educated guess(in which I gave my time and effort to) the best eraser apps. So here it is:

    1. Evidence Eliminator - sorry this ones a bit stale. not recommended. -end of comment-

    2. CCleaner - combined with the winapp2.ini(which you can get from the CCleaner forum) is one powerful freeware eraser which secure wipe(gutmann 35) many sensitive areas in a windows PC. But it doesn't offer MFT wiping or swap file wiping or vacant cluster tip/slack wiping or rescrambling of file names(to fool the OS). -But I still recommend running it once a day or so. It has a registry cleaner too which is a bit unsafe without further tinkering(excluding of certain keys).

    3. Cyberscub privacy suite - this one's a keeper. It does almost all the features of CCleaner with an even more powerful wiping algorithm(which is adjustable maybe to 100 wipes) and has MFT wiping, swap file wiping, vacant cluster tip/slack wiping, rescrambling of file names and a bit more bells and whistles. here's a few link to their web site's comparison chart and features:
    http://www.cyberscrub.com/products/privacysuite/compare.php?clicksource=leftnav
    http://www.cyberscrub.com/products/privacysuite/features.php?clicksource=leftnav
    - this a full package(which is why its a bit dubious) my best bet. highly recommended-

    4. BCWipe - clearly this one does almost all of the features of cyberscrub except for wiping certain applications history record and even more powerful if combined with CCleaner.
    - Although it's a bit slower than cyberscrub(have single core, dunno in dual-core) but it's a bit cheaper. recommended-

    5. Eraser - well this one's good too, even though lacking in many features, but hey it's a freeware, this is good on-demand wiper.
    -recommended if you can't afford BCWipe or Cyberscrub... or you use a pira..:gack: -

    note: all this I've tested on my extra hardrive with XP SP3 installed and even Spinrite 6.0(http://www.grc.com/intro.htm) couldn't even recover any of the files deleted.

    well this all I have for now, who knows there may be a lot of good freeware privacy apps(even a lot more crappy shareware privacy apps) out there.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    PS. off-topic - suggestions/apps/tools which also helps protect your privacy:

    COMODO firewall with proper configuration - http://www.personalfirewall.comodo.com/
    firewall test results as of May/June 2008 - http://www.matousec.com/projects/firewall-challenge/results.php

    Spware Blaster, and Spybot - Search & Destory, Spyware Doctor

    Hostsman - http://www.abelhadigital.com/

    Firefox(v3 rc3 recommended) with the ff. addons Ad-block Plus, Ad-block Plus: Element Hiding Helper, Scriptblock or other securebrowsers

    A properly configured home router.
     
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