AVG 8.5 Resident Shield

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by carex, Mar 27, 2009.

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  1. carex

    carex Registered Member

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    Hi guys.

    Resident shield seems to making my PC run very slow, so I've disabled it.
    is it necessary?,
    & what risks am I running by doing so.

    Thanks in advance.
     
    carex, Mar 27, 2009
    #1
  2. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    well if malware finds its way on to your computer via any media such as external hard drive,dvd,cd,usb stick etc it will infect your computer.

    if you have webguard on that will prevent malware coming from the web this includes webmail.
    if you have mail guard on and use a email client that will prevent malware from emails.

    its best to contact AVG and try to get the problem sorted out so you can have the guard on.
     
    lodore, Mar 27, 2009
    #2
  3. carex

    carex Registered Member

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    Thanks for the reply.
    I have the antivius active, will that suffice?

    iviewcapture_date_27_03_2009_time_19_43_34.jpg
     
    carex, Mar 27, 2009
    #3
  4. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    hmm not sure i didnt relise that was listed as different componants.
    the resident shield is the componant that checks all read and writes for malware.
    the antivirus,antispyware and antirootkit componants are the engines that supply the resident shieild the engines and detection.
    i hope that makes sence.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
    lodore, Mar 27, 2009
    #4
  5. JRViejo

    JRViejo Super Moderator

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    carex, this is taken from the latest version 8.5.285 User Manual:
    I would not disable it. You might have other issues with your PC.
    Check the Task Manager to see what processes are eating up CPU %.
     
    JRViejo, Mar 27, 2009
    #5
  6. carex

    carex Registered Member

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    thanks for the feedback, guys.
    Can anybody see anything untoward going on here?

    iviewcapture_date_28_03_2009_time_10_26_44.jpg
     
    carex, Mar 28, 2009
    #6
  7. JRViejo

    JRViejo Super Moderator

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    carex, from that snapshot, I see only 2 AVG processes (avgcsrvx.exe & avgtray.exe) and they are running similar to mine, as detailed at the bottom of this post: AVG Free Upgraded to 8.5.278. Why don't you enable the Resident Shield, look at the Task Manager and post the same process results like in my post?

    Your 5% CPU Usage seems adequate and 53 processes could be normal for your PC. You could run MS Autoruns for Windows to see how many programs are loaded at Logon (I have 10 programs @ 44 processes), yet concentrate on the AVG processes for now so we can determine if that's the culprit.
     
    JRViejo, Mar 28, 2009
    #7
  8. carex

    carex Registered Member

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    To clarify the problem,
    the desktop icons and folder contents,don't populate all at once, it's a bit hit & miss.
    but if I close the folder, and open it again, it's OK?

    iviewcapture_date_28_03_2009_time_18_49_53.jpg

    iviewcapture_date_28_03_2009_time_18_52_06.jpg

    iviewcapture_date_28_03_2009_time_19_22_23.jpg
     
    carex, Mar 28, 2009
    #8
  9. JRViejo

    JRViejo Super Moderator

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    carex, as shown on your 3rd snapshot, with the exception of the AVG Tray Monitor (which is a bit higher than my specs), all the other AVG processes are comparable to mine. Are you saying that when you disable the AVG Resident Shield, your desktop icons and folders populate faster?
     
    JRViejo, Mar 28, 2009
    #9
  10. jdd58

    jdd58 Registered Member

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    I've noticed this with every version since 8.0 came out. It seems a little better in the latest versions. All my installs have been the command line,no safe search or toolbar. Other AVs do it to some extent but not as much as AVG.
     
    jdd58, Mar 28, 2009
    #10
  11. jrmhng

    jrmhng Registered Member

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    You really should have the guard running. It is probably the most critical part of the AV so if it is switched off, you might as well as not have it installed.

    If there is an issue with AVG on your computer, you can try a different AV that doesn't affect your computer as much.
     
    jrmhng, Mar 28, 2009
    #11
  12. virtumonde

    virtumonde Registered Member

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    It is normal.You have 1024 Ram.Also you have many running processes.Even on a more powerful PC if u open a folder full of .exe for example there can be a slowdown.
    If u installed all avg components and compare the total Ram ,with other's AV some will be lighter yes,although the Folder's issue i think will remain ,but if possible the best thing will be to buy more ram.It's cheap.
     
    virtumonde, Mar 28, 2009
    #12
  13. carex

    carex Registered Member

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    Yes.

    All I know is that since downloading AVG 8.5, from 7.5, tasks seem slower, the only other software I've downloaded, since this problem started, is Tuneup Utilities.could it be that?.

    Many thanks for your continuing help.

    Logfile of HijackThis v1.99.1
    Scan saved at 10:17:11, on 29/03/2009
    Platform: Windows XP SP3 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
    MSIE: Internet Explorer v7.00 (7.00.6000.16791)

    Running processes:
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
    C:\Program Files\Windows Defender\MsMpEng.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
    C:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\AOL\ACS\AOLacsd.exe
    C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgwdsvc.exe
    C:\Program Files\Home Cinema\PowerCinema\Kernel\TV\CLCapSvc.exe
    C:\Program Files\CyberLink\Shared Files\CLML_NTService\CLMLServer.exe
    C:\Program Files\CyberLink\Shared Files\CLML_NTService\CLMLService.exe
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\LogiShrd\LVMVFM\LVPrcSrv.exe
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\VS7DEBUG\MDM.EXE
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\System32\TUProgSt.exe
    C:\Program Files\Home Cinema\PowerCinema\Kernel\TV\CLSched.exe
    C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgemc.exe
    C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgrsx.exe
    C:\Program Files\AVG\AVG8\avgcsrvx.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\Dit.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\rundll32.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\RunDll32.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\AGRSMMSG.exe
    C:\Program Files\Thomson\SpeedTouch USB\Dragdiag.exe
    C:\Program Files\Windows Defender\MSASCui.exe
    C:\Program Files\PhatNoise Media Manager\PNAgent.exe
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe
    C:\Program Files\Home Cinema\PowerCinema\PCMService.exe
    C:\Program Files\Home Cinema\PowerDVD\PDVDServ.exe
    C:\Program Files\Logitech\QuickCam\Quickcam.exe
    C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgtray.exe
    C:\Program Files\SpeedTouch\Dr SpeedTouch\drst.exe
    C:\Program Files\Logitech\Desktop Messenger\8876480\Program\LogitechDesktopMessenger.exe
    C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
    C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
    C:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\X10\Common\x10nets.exe
    C:\Program Files\Common Files\Logishrd\LQCVFX\COCIManager.exe
    C:\VstaScan\VsAccess.exe
    C:\Program Files\Outlook Express\msimn.exe
    C:\Program Files\Internet Explorer\IEXPLORE.EXE
    C:\Documents and Settings\William Adams\Desktop\Billiam's Folder\Tools\HijackThis.exe

    R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.bbc.co.uk/
    O2 - BHO: AcroIEHelperStub - {18DF081C-E8AD-4283-A596-FA578C2EBDC3} - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Acrobat\ActiveX\AcroIEHelperShim.dll
    O2 - BHO: Skype add-on (mastermind) - {22BF413B-C6D2-4d91-82A9-A0F997BA588C} - C:\Program Files\Skype\Toolbars\Internet Explorer\SkypeIEPlugin.dll
    O2 - BHO: SSVHelper Class - {761497BB-D6F0-462C-B6EB-D4DAF1D92D43} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_02\bin\ssv.dll
    O2 - BHO: Google Toolbar Helper - {AA58ED58-01DD-4d91-8333-CF10577473F7} - C:\Program Files\Google\Google Toolbar\GoogleToolbar.dll
    O2 - BHO: Google Toolbar Notifier BHO - {AF69DE43-7D58-4638-B6FA-CE66B5AD205D} - C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbarNotifier\5.0.926.3450\swg.dll
    O2 - BHO: Google Dictionary Compression sdch - {C84D72FE-E17D-4195-BB24-76C02E2E7C4E} - C:\Program Files\Google\Google Toolbar\Component\fastsearch_219B3E1547538286.dll
    O2 - BHO: Cooliris Plug-In for Internet Explorer - {EAEE5C74-6D0D-4aca-9232-0DA4A7B866BA} - C:\Program Files\PicLensIE\cooliris.dll
    O3 - Toolbar: &Google Toolbar - {2318C2B1-4965-11d4-9B18-009027A5CD4F} - C:\Program Files\Google\Google Toolbar\GoogleToolbar.dll
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvCplDaemon] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\WINDOWS\system32\NvCpl.dll,NvStartup
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [nwiz] nwiz.exe /install
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvMediaCenter] RunDLL32.exe NvMCTray.dll,NvTaskbarInit
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Dit] Dit.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [High Definition Audio Property Page Shortcut] HDAudPropShortcut.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Cmaudio] RunDll32 cmicnfg.cpl,CMICtrlWnd
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AGRSMMSG] AGRSMMSG.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [IMJPMIG8.1] "C:\WINDOWS\IME\imjp8_1\IMJPMIG.EXE" /Spoil /RemAdvDef /Migration32
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MSPY2002] C:\WINDOWS\system32\IME\PINTLGNT\ImScInst.exe /SYNC
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PHIME2002ASync] C:\WINDOWS\system32\IME\TINTLGNT\TINTSETP.EXE /SYNC
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PHIME2002A] C:\WINDOWS\system32\IME\TINTLGNT\TINTSETP.EXE /IMEName
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [CloneCDElbyCDFL] "C:\Program Files\Elaborate Bytes\CloneCD\ElbyCheck.exe" /L ElbyCDFL
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [SpeedTouch USB Diagnostics] "C:\Program Files\Thomson\SpeedTouch USB\Dragdiag.exe" /icon
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Windows Defender] "C:\Program Files\Windows Defender\MSASCui.exe" -hide
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PNAgent] "C:\Program Files\PhatNoise Media Manager\PNAgent.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [TkBellExe] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Real\Update_OB\realsched.exe" -osboot
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PCMService] "C:\Program Files\Home Cinema\PowerCinema\PCMService.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [RemoteControl] "C:\Program Files\Home Cinema\PowerDVD\PDVDServ.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [LogitechQuickCamRibbon] "C:\Program Files\Logitech\QuickCam\Quickcam.exe" /hide
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [AVG8_TRAY] C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgtray.exe
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [NBJ] "C:\Program Files\Ahead\Nero BackItUp\NBJ.exe"
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [STManager] "C:\Program Files\SpeedTouch\Dr SpeedTouch\drst.exe" -b
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [swg] C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbarNotifier\GoogleToolbarNotifier.exe
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [LDM] C:\Program Files\Logitech\Desktop Messenger\8876480\Program\LogitechDesktopMessenger.exe
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [MSMSGS] "C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe" /background
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [ctfmon.exe] C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
    O4 - Global Startup: Adobe Gamma Loader.exe.lnk = C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Calibration\Adobe Gamma Loader.exe
    O4 - Global Startup: Adobe Gamma Loader.lnk = C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Calibration\Adobe Gamma Loader.exe
    O4 - Global Startup: Logitech Desktop Messenger.lnk = C:\Program Files\Logitech\Desktop Messenger\8876480\Program\LogitechDesktopMessenger.exe
    O4 - Global Startup: Umax VistaAccess.lnk = ?
    O8 - Extra context menu item: &ieSpell Options - res://C:\Program Files\ieSpell\iespell.dll/SPELLOPTION.HTM
    O8 - Extra context menu item: Add to Google Photos Screensa&ver - res://C:\WINDOWS\system32\GPhotos.scr/200
    O8 - Extra context menu item: Check &Spelling - res://C:\Program Files\ieSpell\iespell.dll/SPELLCHECK.HTM
    O8 - Extra context menu item: E&xport to Microsoft Excel - res://C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~3\OFFICE11\EXCEL.EXE/3000
    O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_02\bin\ssv.dll
    O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Sun Java Console - {08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.6.0_02\bin\ssv.dll
    O9 - Extra button: ieSpell - {0E17D5B7-9F5D-4fee-9DF6-CA6EE38B68A8} - C:\Program Files\ieSpell\iespell.dll
    O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: ieSpell - {0E17D5B7-9F5D-4fee-9DF6-CA6EE38B68A8} - C:\Program Files\ieSpell\iespell.dll
    O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {1606D6F9-9D3B-4aea-A025-ED5B2FD488E7} - C:\Program Files\ieSpell\iespell.dll
    O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: ieSpell Options - {1606D6F9-9D3B-4aea-A025-ED5B2FD488E7} - C:\Program Files\ieSpell\iespell.dll
    O9 - Extra button: Launch Cooliris - {3437D640-C91A-458f-89F5-B9095EA4C28B} - C:\Program Files\PicLensIE\cooliris.dll
    O9 - Extra button: Skype - {77BF5300-1474-4EC7-9980-D32B190E9B07} - C:\Program Files\Skype\Toolbars\Internet Explorer\SkypeIEPlugin.dll
    O9 - Extra button: Research - {92780B25-18CC-41C8-B9BE-3C9C571A8263} - C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~3\OFFICE11\REFIEBAR.DLL
    O9 - Extra button: Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
    O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Windows Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
    O11 - Options group: [INTERNATIONAL] International*
    O14 - IERESET.INF: START_PAGE_URL=http://www.medion.com/
    O16 - DPF: {17492023-C23A-453E-A040-C7C580BBF700} (Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool) - http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=39204
    O16 - DPF: {4871A87A-BFDD-4106-8153-FFDE2BAC2967} (DLM Control) - http://dlm.tools.akamai.com/dlmanager/versions/activex/dlm-activex-2.2.4.1.cab
    O16 - DPF: {4F1E5B1A-2A80-42CA-8532-2D05CB959537} (MSN Photo Upload Tool) - http://by140fd.bay140.hotmail.msn.com/resources/MsnPUpld.cab
    O16 - DPF: {5ED80217-570B-4DA9-BF44-BE107C0EC166} (Windows Live Safety Center Base Module) - http://cdn.scan.onecare.live.com/resource/download/scanner/wlscbase8300.cab
    O16 - DPF: {6414512B-B978-451D-A0D8-FCFDF33E833C} (WUWebControl Class) - http://www.update.microsoft.com/win...ls/en/x86/client/wuweb_site.cab?1183486933500
    O16 - DPF: {644E432F-49D3-41A1-8DD5-E099162EEEC5} (Symantec RuFSI Utility Class) - http://security.symantec.com/sscv6/SharedContent/common/bin/cabsa.cab
    O16 - DPF: {A90A5822-F108-45AD-8482-9BC8B12DD539} (Crucial cpcScan) - http://www.crucial.com/controls/cpcScanner.cab
    O16 - DPF: {EAC139A9-D22D-4C29-8D1C-252BE63750F9} - http://www.cooliris.com/shared/plinstll.cab
    O17 - HKLM\System\CCS\Services\Tcpip\..\{05DC53A5-12F9-4A34-8D1E-0E61171D4428}: NameServer = 212.104.130.9 212.104.130.65
    O17 - HKLM\System\CS1\Services\Tcpip\..\{05DC53A5-12F9-4A34-8D1E-0E61171D4428}: NameServer = 212.104.130.9 212.104.130.65
    O18 - Protocol: bwfile-8876480 - {9462A756-7B47-47BC-8C80-C34B9B80B32B} - C:\Program Files\Logitech\Desktop Messenger\8876480\Program\GAPlugProtocol-8876480.dll
    O18 - Protocol: skype4com - {FFC8B962-9B40-4DFF-9458-1830C7DD7F5D} - C:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\Skype\SKYPE4~1.DLL
    O20 - Winlogon Notify: !SASWinLogon - C:\Program Files\SUPERAntiSpyware\SASWINLO.dll
    O20 - Winlogon Notify: avgrsstarter - C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\avgrsstx.dll
    O20 - Winlogon Notify: WgaLogon - C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\WgaLogon.dll
    O23 - Service: AOL Connectivity Service (AOL ACS) - America Online, Inc. - C:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\AOL\ACS\AOLacsd.exe
    O23 - Service: AVG Free8 E-mail Scanner (avg8emc) - AVG Technologies CZ, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgemc.exe
    O23 - Service: AVG Free8 WatchDog (avg8wd) - AVG Technologies CZ, s.r.o. - C:\PROGRA~1\AVG\AVG8\avgwdsvc.exe
    O23 - Service: CyberLink Background Capture Service (CBCS) (CLCapSvc) - Unknown owner - C:\Program Files\Home Cinema\PowerCinema\Kernel\TV\CLCapSvc.exe
    O23 - Service: CyberLink Task Scheduler (CTS) (CLSched) - Unknown owner - C:\Program Files\Home Cinema\PowerCinema\Kernel\TV\CLSched.exe
    O23 - Service: CyberLink Media Library Service - Cyberlink - C:\Program Files\CyberLink\Shared Files\CLML_NTService\CLMLServer.exe
    O23 - Service: Google Updater Service (gusvc) - Google - C:\Program Files\Google\Common\Google Updater\GoogleUpdaterService.exe
    O23 - Service: Process Monitor (LVPrcSrv) - Logitech Inc. - C:\Program Files\Common Files\LogiShrd\LVMVFM\LVPrcSrv.exe
    O23 - Service: NVIDIA Display Driver Service (NVSvc) - NVIDIA Corporation - C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exe
    O23 - Service: TuneUp Drive Defrag Service (TuneUp.Defrag) - TuneUp Software - C:\WINDOWS\System32\TuneUpDefragService.exe
    O23 - Service: TuneUp Program Statistics Service (TuneUp.ProgramStatisticsSvc) - TuneUp Software - C:\WINDOWS\System32\TUProgSt.exe
    O23 - Service: X10 Device Network Service (x10nets) - X10 - C:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\X10\Common\x10nets.exe
     
    carex, Mar 29, 2009
    #13
  14. JRViejo

    JRViejo Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Posts:
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    Location:
    U.S.A.
    carex, with only 1 GB of RAM, you seem to be running quite a number of Media software, including a camera. Like Virtumonde stated, another stick of 1 GB would go a long way in improving response. What your PC's Make & Model Number?

    While you could try disabling the TuneUp utilities from starting to see if that helps, perhaps reading and trying this illustrated How To: Diagnose Your PC with a Clean Boot article will pinpoint what background process is exactly slowing your PC. Print it out for easier following.
     
    JRViejo, Mar 29, 2009
    #14
  15. carex

    carex Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Posts:
    25
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2009
    carex, Mar 30, 2009
    #15
  16. JRViejo

    JRViejo Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
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    Location:
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    carex, I would have performed a clean boot first (as described in the article I linked to) before buying more memory, so I would know what background process is slowing the PC.
    Here's Crucial's answer to your question: Does DDR2 have to be installed in pairs?. In your case, in order to achieve a 2 GB total, I would replace the 2 256MB modules with 2 512MB modules and add a 512MB module to the empty slot.

    The reason is because the system was idle at that moment at 0% CPU Usage. If you crank up all your Media software, including the camera, and then look at the TuneUp utility, you will see the true % CPU Usage load against your present memory.

    BTW, that's the same thing that happens when a PC boots up and why it's always advisable, on a system with minimal memory, to disable non-essential programs from starting, thus faster boots. You can check your running processes on this Startup Programs Database to see what's essential or not.
     
    JRViejo, Mar 30, 2009
    #16
  17. carex

    carex Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Posts:
    25
    thank for the useful info but..
    I've already ordered it, bud.

    dunno if you can see this link OK?

    http://www.crucial.com/uk/systemscanner/viewscanbyid.aspx?id=611476AA31D926C3



    "Our suggested upgrades" (2GB)

    are you saying the one 1GB I've ordered wont be compatible
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2009
    carex, Mar 30, 2009
    #17
  18. JRViejo

    JRViejo Super Moderator

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    carex, yes, I can see the link and that question should be addressed to Crucial Support. Perhaps the order has not shipped yet and they can do something about it. Hurry!
     
    JRViejo, Mar 30, 2009
    #18
  19. carex

    carex Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Posts:
    25
    I was too late, already been shipped,

    So I bought a extra 1GB (instead of the paying the price of 3x512 KB) payed £7 more for the 1GB

    so the setup is..

    256MB / 1GB
    256MB / 1GB
    so I should get this dual mode thingy, is that correct?

    and all my troubles will be over.....I hope.
     
    carex, Mar 31, 2009
    #19
  20. JRViejo

    JRViejo Super Moderator

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    carex, I was able to find a PDF guide (3.6MB) on your MSI (Micro Star) MS-7046 Motherboard. This could be similar to what you have. Page 17 describes the Memory section and there's a table to follow regarding installation. I'm sure that with 2.5 GB total, your Media applications will love the extra juice. ;) Keep us posted.
     
    JRViejo, Mar 31, 2009
    #20
  21. carex

    carex Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Posts:
    25
    Cool find.
    much appreciated.
     
    carex, Mar 31, 2009
    #21
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