RollBack Rx & Shadow Defender

[2YsUR]

Originally Posted by Wendi

Thanks Scott, that is a good point that you make, in that SD's protection is only there when it's active! But I do have Panda Cloud AV running actively all of the time (as I see you also do), so I guess I'm covered in that regard.

I've come to realize that no A/V is 100% effective so I have started using imaging software to make regular backups of my system. If you read enough of the forums here and some other places I think you will see that people get very nasty infections even though they are using the latest updates of very highly rated A/V products.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I use A/V software I just don't think it is anything anyone should put 100% faith in.

[Scott W]

Originally Posted by Wendi

Thanks Scott, that is a good point that you make, in that SD's protection is only there when it's active! But I do have Panda Cloud AV running actively all of the time (as I see you also do), so I guess I'm covered in that regard.

Wendi

Probably so, but besides RB's role in undoing malware infections by rolling back to pre-infected snapshot (albeit there are some limitations), I find RB to be invaluable for things like software testing (especially where installation requires a reboot), undoing software installs (and I might add, perfectly), having different software configurations accessible for different purposes, recovering deleted or changed files, and last but not least, rescuing a system which won't boot into Windows (BSODs) by loading a pre-crash snapshot using RB's boot-time console (just as The Shadow did)! These virtues are the real value of RB.

Scott

[Wendi]

2YsUR: I understand that and I do backup (to an external hard drive) every week religeously. In that regard, you may have noticed from my signature that I use Drive Snapshot.

Scott: Those are very impressive points indeed. I may have to consider Rollback Rx even if not for security purposes!

Wendi

[bgoodman4]

Originally Posted by Wendi

I'm a quite confused here, so some clarification (and a little patience with me) would be appreciated.

I undertand how Shadow Defender adds protection to an existing Rollback Rx installation, but how does Rollback Rx add value to someone already using Shadow Defender?

Wendi

The most obvious advantage of Rx over SD is that when you reboot (or rollback) you do not lose the ability to restore/roll to another state (either earlier or subsequent). With SD, you either commit all (or selected) changes to the drive or you get rid of all changes to the drive since the SD session began upon reboot. Once this has been done there is no going back.

[Wendi]

Originally Posted by bgoodman4

The most obvious advantage of Rx over SD is that when you reboot (or rollback) you do not lose the ability to restore/roll to another state (either earlier or subsequent). With SD, you either commit all (or selected) changes to the drive or you get rid of all changes to the drive since the SD session began upon reboot. Once this has been done there is no going back.

Thanks bgoodman4, but replacing SD with Rx wasn't ever a consideration, I love SD!!! I was originally trying to learn what additional security benefits Rollback Rx brought to the table. I now believe that as long as SD is active, Rollback offers no additional security benefit.

However, now that Scott has pointed out all of the other impressive benefits of Rollback, I must say that I am considering adding it to my other very important apps.

Wendi

[bgoodman4]

I did not mean to suggest that Rx should, or even could, replace SD. They are 2 different programs with 2 different basic functions. There is some overlap in what they can do but only at the periphery. In fact, I recently began to use the two programs together whereas in the past I used Rx only on my laptop and had SD on a seldom used desktop PC. I would suggest that incorporating Rx into your current system integrity suite of tools would be an excellent idea.

Just to reiterate what I wrote above,,,,,,

Rx allows you to maintain a series of restore points that you can either rollback to, or roll forward to. SD creates a sandbox that protects your system while in sandbox mode. Rx is excellent for protecting during software testing and updating programs or Windows itself. If there is a problem you simply revert to a snapshot that was made before the test or update was done. You could not do this with SD since in many cases you would need to reboot the PC in order for the test or update to become functional. The other big difference between the two programs is that Rx will allow you to recover files that may no longer exist in the current system state by mounting a snapshot that contains the files as a virtual drive.

Think of it this way, Rx gives you the ability to very quickly backup most everything on your drive and, if the need should arise, to very quickly restore to one of those backed up states. This is a world away from what SD is designed to be used for.

[Wendi]

bg,

I get it, and your explanation goes to reinforce Scott's last post. Rollback Rx is sounding more and more like a must-have program. You guys have convinced me to try it out.

Thank you,
Wendi

[The Shadow]

As a Shadow Defender 'old-timer' and a relatively new Rollback Rx user I was wondering what Rx settings would be advisable (anything special in light of using Rx together with SD)? Right now I am using the default Rx settings (except that I custom-installed Rx to just protect my C-partition).

TS

[Wendi]

Originally Posted by The Shadow

As a Shadow Defender 'old-timer' and a relatively new Rollback Rx user I was wondering what Rx settings would be advisable (anything special in light of using Rx together with SD)? Right now I am using the default Rx settings (except that I custom-installed Rx to just protect my C-partition).

TS

I second TS' request. As I am about to trial Rollback Rx that would be very useful information indeed.

Wendi

[bgoodman4]

One of the things I really like about Rx is that there is not much to trouble you in terms of setting it up so I am not sure what settings you are asking about.

Apart from the very basic default set-up (which I have not modified) I have my user setting (scheduled tasks) as follows,,,,, lock the snapshot that is created upon boot (or reboot), take an unlocked snap each hour at 1 min past the hour. Apart from that you can elect to take a snap of the current state of the PC during the rollback process but thats not something that you need to set in advance (nor can you).

And I agree 110% IMHO Rx is a must have program.

PS: Wendi, I would suggest that you image your drive before installing Rx. Its better to be safe that sorry though I seriously doubt you will have any problems.

[Brian K]

Originally Posted by bgoodman4

And I agree 110% IMHO Rx is a must have program.

Barry,

I once made the cynical comment that Rollback is an app that requires you to expend hours to save minutes. Especially with regards to imaging unused sectors. I can create a differential image in just over a minute and restore my OS image in just over two minutes. I don't feel I need to use Rollback.

Just playing the Devil's Advocate.

[Scott W]

@Wendi,

I think that TS made the most significant change to RB's default settings by using custom install to set RB to protect only his C-partition (imho protecting partitions other than C: is not the best use of RB). Of course if your system drive consists of just a single partition you can use the default install. Much more can be said about this, but I don't have the time right now.


@TS and Wendi,

While there are no special settings due to the use of SD, one other change from the default settings that I recommend is for RB's automatic snapshot defrags (the default settings are after 4 deletions and 4 additions, and they are located under Program Settings > Advanced). I have my respective settings to defrag after 2 deletions and 3 additions, which have worked out better for me. Barry has some very good tips as well, but for the most part RB's default settings are sufficient.


@Brian,

Your image backup/restore times are far from the norm and I would agree that adding RB to your 'mix' makes little sense. But for most of us, backing-up and/or restoring is much closer to a half-hour process than a minute or two! Especially when you consider the additional time to retrieve/return your external drive from/to its secure location, etc.

Got to run,
Scott

[2YsUR]

Originally Posted by bgoodman4

...
PS: Wendi, I would suggest that you image your drive before installing Rx. Its better to be safe that sorry though I seriously doubt you will have any problems.

Yes, on very rare occasions an RBrx install has left a system in an unbootable condition. In fact I have only read of one such instance over on the Horizon Data Sys forums http://horizondatasys-forum.com/16312-post1.html. I guess it is just a good idea to have a system backup prior to any new software install.

[aladdin]

Originally Posted by 2YsUR

Yes, on very rare occasions an RBrx install has left a system in an unbootable condition. In fact I have only read of one such instance over on the Horizon Data Sys forums http://horizondatasys-forum.com/16312-post1.html. I guess it is just a good idea to have a system backup prior to any new software install.

I bought 3 licenses and after 2 months, they had to refund me!

Best regards,

KOR!

[2YsUR]

Originally Posted by King of Rapture

I bought 3 licenses and after 2 months, they had to refund me!

Best regards,

KOR!

I see you have stated that before and someone else ask why. So I'm also curious - why did you ask for a refund?

[Wendi]

Originally Posted by Scott W

@Wendi,

I think that TS made the most significant change to RB's default settings by using custom install to set RB to protect only his C-partition (imho protecting partitions other than C: is not the best use of RB). Of course if your system drive consists of just a single partition you can use the default install. Much more can be said about this, but I don't have the time right now.


@TS and Wendi,

While there are no special settings due to the use of SD, one other change from the default settings that I recommend is for RB's automatic snapshot defrags (the default settings are after 4 deletions and 4 additions, and they are located under Program Settings > Advanced). I have my respective settings to defrag after 2 deletions and 3 additions, which have worked out better for me. Barry has some very good tips as well, but for the most part RB's default settings are sufficient.


@Brian,

Your image backup/restore times are far from the norm and I would agree that adding RB to your 'mix' makes little sense. But for most of us, backing-up and/or restoring is much closer to a half-hour process than a minute or two! Especially when you consider the additional time to retrieve/return your external drive from/to its secure location, etc.

Got to run,
Scott

Thank you Scott. I have downloaded Rollback and am going to install it tonight. My hard drive is partitioned into C and D, so I will do as TS did, using Custom Install. I think I will leave all other settings at their Default value, at least to start. Thanks also to bg for his helpful tips!

Wendi

[bgoodman4]

Originally Posted by Brian K

Barry,

I once made the cynical comment that Rollback is an app that requires you to expend hours to save minutes. Especially with regards to imaging unused sectors. I can create a differential image in just over a minute and restore my OS image in just over two minutes. I don't feel I need to use Rollback.

Just playing the Devil's Advocate.

Well, perhaps,,,if you are imaging unused sectors, or if you have your system divided into a number of partitions and all you are imaging is the OS. However I prefer to protect my entire drive (the visible to Windows portion). For example I have had occasion to want to recover a file that had become corrupted and Rx has allowed me to do this. But again this is just me, others will want to play with the custom install, I never have.

PS: I learnt the hard way to avoid differential images. An error in one of the images and the entire thing is junk. When I image now its always a full image of the visible to Windows drive.

[Scott W]

Originally Posted by Wendi

Thank you Scott. I have downloaded Rollback and am going to install it tonight. My hard drive is partitioned into C and D, so I will do as TS did, using Custom Install. I think I will leave all other settings at their Default value, at least to start. Thanks also to bg for his helpful tips!

Wendi

Hey Wendi, as you haven't yet installed RB, here are some very important things to do before installing RB.

Check the available free space on C: (you should not install RB if your C-partition is nearly full). If that's not a problem, proceed as follows (let me know if you don't know how to do any of this):

1. Make sure that C: is not in Shadow Mode.
2. Run a full antivirus scan of C: (making sure your system is 100% clean).
3. Turn off System Restore of C: (you don't need it with RB and we want to free-up the space it has used).
4. Using RUN > CMD (DOS) run CHKDSK /R (you need to do a restart for this to run and it will take a while).
5. Now cleanup C: using a good disk cleaner like CCleaner.
6. Next defrag C: (you can not run file-defraggers while RB is active)!
7. Almost ready to install RB, but first do an image backup (w/verify) of C:
8. Once you have that backup, close all running apps and exit out of your AV.
9. Install RB, choosing Custom Install and just check the C-partition.
10. The rest should be straight-forward, but if you run into a problem just holler.

Scott

[Brian K]

Originally Posted by bgoodman4

PS: I learnt the hard way to avoid differential images. An error in one of the images and the entire thing is junk.

Barry, I think you are referring to incremental images. Differential images don't depend on a chain of images.

[Wendi]

Originally Posted by Scott W

Hey Wendi, as you haven't yet installed RB, here are some very important things to do before installing RB.

Check the available free space on C: (you should not install RB if your C-partition is nearly full). If that's not a problem, proceed as follows (let me know if you don't know how to do any of this):

1. Make sure that C: is not in Shadow Mode.
2. Run a full antivirus scan of C: (making sure your system is 100% clean).
3. Turn off System Restore of C: (you don't need it with RB and we want to free-up the space it has used).
4. Using RUN > CMD (DOS) run CHKDSK /R (you need to do a restart for this to run and it will take a while).
5. Now cleanup C: using a good disk cleaner like CCleaner.
6. Next defrag C: (you can not run file-defraggers while RB is active)!
7. Almost ready to install RB, but first do an image backup (w/verify) of C:
8. Once you have that backup, close all running apps and exit out of your AV.
9. Install RB, choosing Custom Install and just check the C-partition.
10. The rest should be straight-forward, but if you run into a problem just holler.

Scott

Wow Scott, thank you so much for taking the time to provide me with such a clear list of things to do before I install Rollback. Your list should be a 'sticky' (somewhere) for anyone thinking of installing Rollback Rx!

Thanks again,
Wendi

[Scott W]

Originally Posted by Wendi

Wow Scott, thank you so much for taking the time to provide me with such a clear list of things to do before I install Rollback. Your list should be a 'sticky' (somewhere) for anyone thinking of installing Rollback Rx!

Thanks again,
Wendi

No problem Wendi, glad to do it. But before you stick my things-to-do list anyplace it should be noted that #1 obviously doesn't apply to those not using SD and #6 doesn't apply to SSD users. In any case, good luck with your install and should you have any question/problems don't hesitate to ask.

Scott

[2YsUR]

Originally Posted by Scott W

...Make sure that C: is not in Shadow Mode.

1. Run a full antivirus scan of C: (making sure your system is 100% clean).
2. Turn off System Restore of C: (you don't need it with RB and we want to free-up the space it has used).
3. Using RUN > CMD (DOS) run CHKDSK /R (you need to do a restart for this to run and it will take a while).
4. Now cleanup C: using a good disk cleaner like CCleaner.
5. Next defrag C: (you can not run file-defraggers while RB is active)!
6. Almost ready to install RB, but first do an image backup (w/verify) of C:
7. Once you have that backup, close all running apps and exit out of your AV.
8. Install RB, choosing Custom Install and just check the C-partition.
9. The rest should be straight-forward, but if you run into a problem just holler...

Great check list. I would add turning off modem before disabling AV. And at the point RBrx asks for the registration key you can turn on AV and modem and enter the key.

[Scott W]

Originally Posted by 2YsUR

Great check list. I would add turning off modem before disabling AV. And at the point RBrx asks for the registration key you can turn on AV and modem and enter the key.

My list just covers RB installation, not removal. But when you want to uninstall it, the safest method is to do so from the Subsystem Console (at bootup/restart). Once in RB's Subsystem Console (by hitting the Home key when you see RB's progress bar on bootup/restart) select Uninstall and then a snapshot to uninstall to (most typically the current system, unless it is corrupted).

Scott

[bgoodman4]

Originally Posted by Brian K

Barry, I think you are referring to incremental images. Differential images don't depend on a chain of images.

Sorry about that,,,,you are of course correct.

[bgoodman4]

[1]Make sure that C: is not in Shadow Mode.
It would be rather counter productive to fail to do this.

[2]Run a full antivirus scan of C: (making sure your system is 100% clean).
Not a bad idea but if you are running a decent AV that does regular auto scans of the drive you should be good to go without needing this,,,,but it sure cannot hurt.

[3]Turn off System Restore of C: (you don't need it with RB and we want to free-up the space it has used).
Its been a long time since I first installed Rx but I seem to recall that RX did this for you. If not I would suggest turning it off AFTER the Rx install. This way if something goes wrong you may be able to use the Windows restore point to back out of the installation.

[4]Using RUN > CMD (DOS) run CHKDSK /R (you need to do a restart for this to run and it will take a while).
Again cannot hurt but not necessary IMO. There is nothing stopping you from running this at any time after installing Rx if the need should arise.

[5]Now cleanup C: using a good disk cleaner like CCleaner.
This is a good suggestion.

[6]Next defrag C: (you can not run file-defraggers while RB is active)!
This is def a good suggestion

[7]Almost ready to install RB, but first do an image backup (w/verify) of C:
Yup, for sure

[8]Once you have that backup, close all running apps and exit out of your AV.
I have never found this to be necessary.

[9]Install RB, choosing Custom Install and just check the C-partition.
As you prefer. May I ask whats on your D: drive Wendi? On mine its the Windows install files for the Lap-Top. This is a small partition and it never changes so having Rx watch it will not affect anything.

[10]The rest should be straight-forward, but if you run into a problem just holler.
Agreed 100%


Great list Scott, some of the steps are at user discretion I think but solid advice none-the-less.