Rollback RX question

[cgeek]

Is it possible to defragment the HDD while using Rollback RX?

[moontan]

Originally Posted by cgeek

Is it possible to defragment the HDD while using Rollback RX?

the best way is to uninstall from the subconsole at boot time then defrag.
it's also the way to go if you want to image your system.
then when you're finished reinstall RX.

you only need to do a defrag once every couple of months.
no big deal.

[Aaron Here]

Originally Posted by cgeek

Is it possible to defragment the HDD while using Rollback RX?

cgeek,

As moontan indicates, that's a definite no-no, instead just use RB's snapshot-defrag (which is all you really need to do insofar as defragging). A disk-degrag should be done before installing RB. If you feel a compelling need to do a disk-defrag after RB has been installed, you would be best advised to uninstall RB beforehand, do your disk-defrag and then re-install RB.

However, I happen to disagree with moontan on his disk-imaging advice, and have submitted several posts to that effect.

Aaron

[moontan]

Originally Posted by Aaron Here

cgeek,
However, I happen to disagree with moontan on his disk-imaging advice, and have submitted several posts to that effect.

Aaron

i'm interested in knowing more.
care to feed me a link or 2?

[maymoons]

Is it possible to defragment the HDD while using Rollback RX?

No. You can not use defrag tools, hdd encryption tools, shadow defender and similar tools with rollback rx, ctm and their clones

Probably you can not use secure erase tools with rollback rx (especially wipe free disk space option)

[Aaron Here]

Originally Posted by moontan

i'm interested in knowing more.
care to feed me a link or 2?

I could search for those posts, but it's easier to just express my feelings on the subject off the top of my head.

While uninstalling RB, making a disk-image, and then re-installing RB gets the imaging job done, it just doesn’t make any sense to me because…

a) The effort in doing that is greater than making an ‘all-sectors’ image (described below).
b) Once you uninstall RB, you lose all snapshots (other than your current snapshot)!
c) Finally, HDS (in their infinite wisdom) limits the number of times you can activate RB.

Instead, why not image your entire system partition including the RB environment (with all of its snapshots)? To do this you must first boot into a 'live' OS (DOS/BartPE/WinPE/Linux) and then run an ‘all-sectors’ backup (also called ‘sector-by-sector’ 'raw mode' ‘maintenance mode’ and ‘forensic mode’) of your C-partition from that other live OS.

If you have one large C-drive, I strongly advise partitioning it using any one of several available disk-partitioning programs to where the C-partition is just large enough for Windows, your browser, other system-related files, your programs, RB and a decent amount of free space for RB’s snapshots. Put your personal files (data, docs, music, photos, etc.) on your D-partition. If you don't do this, the image-backup method I'm advocating will be a PITA. However, with a reasonably-sized system partition it's a piece of cake.

Aaron

[safeguy]

Originally Posted by maymoons

No. You can not use defrag tools, hdd encryption tools, shadow defender and similar tools with rollback rx, ctm and their clones

I've tried and I found that it is actually possible to use Light Virtualization software like ShadowDefender and Returnil with ISR software but it'll only protect the particular 'snapshot(s)' in which you have the LV software installed.

I'm not so sure but perhaps this quote by Coldmoon may help to understand why so:

A few notes about Returnil and MBR

RSS/RVS do not use sector mapping or alter the MBR to provide the virtualization and boot-to-restore functionality. Rather than a disk mapping tool, think of our virtualization as a disk filter. When using the Virtual Mode, changes made during that session are tracked in the cache and then either dropped entirely or:

1. Specific files (or entire folder trees) are saved using the File Manager manually or aromatically to the real system. As opposed to an Exclusion approach, this forces decision making on the user and keeps the content protected until the moment it is to be saved and then "re-protected" following the save operation. With exclusions, the content is left wholly unprotected to serve as a convenience without much thought for security. With RSS/RVS, security is the first thought with convenience being molded to retain that secure state.

2. All changes made during the current virtual session are saved to the real System. This is more advanced and useful from an administration perspective where you can test specific changes before committing them "permanently".

As opposed to other solutions, RSS/RVS work to protect, rather than use the MBR. When in Virtual Mode, no changes are allowed to be made to the MBR and this also includes many forms of low sector editing. As there is no such thing as a silver bullet, RSS and RVS include additional protection that covers this weakness in all single-purpose solutions.

Source: http://forums.malwarebytes.org/index...howtopic=68817

If anyone else knows anything or a caution why it isn't advisable to do so, please do tell me..

[moontan]

Aaron Here:

a) The effort in doing that is greater than making an ‘all-sectors’ image (described below).
b) Once you uninstall RB, you lose all snapshots (other than your current snapshot)!
c) Finally, HDS (in their infinite wisdom) limits the number of times you can activate RB.

i could live with the first 2 but c) might be a problem.
i've never done sector by sector imaging but i'll look into it.

tnx for taking the time Aaron.
-----------------------------
edit:
from what i gathered on the Rollback RX official support forum re-activation
should not be a problem as long as you don't replace your hard drive.

you can contact support if you ever need to change your HD.

[Aaron Here]

Originally Posted by moontan

i could live with the first 2 but c) might be a problem.
i've never done sector by sector imaging but i'll look into it.

tnx for taking the time Aaron.
-----------------------------
edit:
from what i gathered on the Rollback RX official support forum re-activation
should not be a problem as long as you don't replace your hard drive.

you can contact support if you ever need to change your HD.

No problem moontan ...even if you can live with my first two objections to the uninstall-reinstall method for making a disk image, I'd sure be interested as to why?

Regarding the 'maximum number of activations' issue, I can tell you from experience (happened to me when upgrading to the current build) that it's a fact and a big nuissance! HDS support will reinstate your activation (eventually) after it happens and you report it to them, but again I have to ask why?

Aaron

[moontan]

@ Aaron

i'd rather not have to do a sector by sector imaging unless i really have to.
i am used to work with the way Windows 7 does imaging and restoring and for me uninstalling & re-installing RX is a minor nuisance.
i'll cross the bridge of too many activations when i get there.

losing all my snapshots is no big deal since once my machine is set up the way i want i don't plant in having more than 3-4 snapshots stored in RX anyway.
i plan to use RX like i was using Shadow Defender, mostly like an utility to "reboot to freshness" so to speak.

[Aaron Here]

Just goes to validate the proverb "different strokes for different folks".

Happy New Year!

[moontan]

Originally Posted by Aaron Here

Just goes to validate the proverb "different strokes for different folks".

Happy New Year!

Happy new year to you and your loved ones as well!

[bgoodman4]

Originally Posted by Aaron Here

cgeek,

As moontan indicates, that's a definite no-no, instead just use RB's snapshot-defrag (which is all you really need to do insofar as defragging).

Aaron

I uninstall Rx monthly and do PC maintenance. Early on I ran the snapshot defrager just before doing my monthly chores and when I ran Diskeeper (RX uninstalled) it showed the drive was very fragmented. In addition my PC is def faster when I have completed my chores and reinstalled RX, so something is happening to make a diff.

And yes, you certainly can image with Rx installed as you have said but it must be a sector by sector image which is much slower and takes up more space. May not be an issue for some as external media is pretty cheap these days but for other it may be. Besides, as I have just posted elsewhere, there are other reasons to uninstall RX regularly and then reinstall it.

[bgoodman4]

Originally Posted by Aaron Here

c) Finally, HDS (in their infinite wisdom) limits the number of times you can activate RB.

I have been using my version of Rx for about 2 years now and I uninstal and reinstall monthly. Thats about 24 activations. Do you know how many activations are permitted? Are you certain of this?

[bgoodman4]

Originally Posted by Aaron Here

Just goes to validate the proverb "different strokes for different folks".

Happy New Year!

For sure,,,,

,,,,and Happy New Year to you and yours as well.

[moontan]

Originally Posted by bgoodman4

I have been using my version of Rx for about 2 years now and I uninstal and reinstall monthly. Thats about 24 activations. Do you know how many activations are permitted? Are you certain of this?

i dont think activation is an issue as long as you dont change your HD.
that is what i gathered from the official Rollback forum.

[bgoodman4]

Originally Posted by moontan

i dont think activation is an issue as long as you dont change your HD.
that is what i gathered from the official Rollback forum.

Thank you.

[aladdin]

Originally Posted by bgoodman4

I uninstall Rx monthly and do PC maintenance. Early on I ran the snapshot defrager just before doing my monthly chores and when I ran Diskeeper (RX uninstalled) it showed the drive was very fragmented. In addition my PC is def faster when I have completed my chores and reinstalled RX, so something is happening to make a diff

Hi there,

What I understand one can do defrag (Diskeeper and so forth) while Rollback RX is still installed.

RX people suggested to run a script in evaluated command mode, run the script, defrag (Diskeeper and so forth) and then create a new baseline. Which again loosing all the snapshots but one doesn't have to uninstall the Rollback RX.

Somebody, raised the question why not a new baseline before the defrag (Diskeeper and so forth), so the discussion stopped there.

Well do both a baseline snapshot before the defrag (Diskeeper and so forth) and one right after the defrag (Diskeeper and so forth). But you don't have to uninstall Rollback RX.

Best regards,

KOR!

Happy New Year!

[moontan]

Originally Posted by King of Rapture

RX people suggested to run a script in evaluated command mode, run the script, defrag (Diskeeper and so forth) and then create a new baseline. Which again loosing all the snapshots but one doesn't have to uninstall the Rollback RX.

KOR!

Happy New Year!

it is not that big of a deal do uninstall RX from the subconsole.
it only takes a couple of minute and then another couple of minutes to re-install.

[bgoodman4]

Originally Posted by King of Rapture

Hi there,

What I understand one can do defrag (Diskeeper and so forth) while Rollback RX is still installed.

RX people suggested to run a script in evaluated command mode, run the script, defrag (Diskeeper and so forth) and then create a new baseline. Which again loosing all the snapshots but one doesn't have to uninstall the Rollback RX.

Somebody, raised the question why not a new baseline before the defrag (Diskeeper and so forth), so the discussion stopped there.

Well do both a baseline snapshot before the defrag (Diskeeper and so forth) and one right after the defrag (Diskeeper and so forth). But you don't have to uninstall Rollback RX.

Best regards,

KOR!

Happy New Year!

Sounds reasonable,,,,, I must have missed the thread. Thanks for the info.

[bgoodman4]

Originally Posted by moontan

it is not that big of a deal do uninstall RX from the subconsole.
it only takes a couple of minute and then another couple of minutes to re-install.

Exactly, each to their own as was said above. As long as what you are doing meets your needs and you understand the pros and cons its a good approach whatever it is.