Does a pay-antivirus market collapse by MSE?

[StarPlatinum]

MSE of Microsoft is scheduled to the public this autumn.
Although there were free antivirus products until now also,
but the antivirus market how changing with the MSE appearance?
I would like to hear the opinion of everyone.

[funkydude]

It will change, for the good! No market will collapse. Microsoft offering brilliant protection for free means the others need to work harder.

[Eice]

Originally Posted by StarPlatinum

MSE of Microsoft is scheduled to the public this autumn.
Although there were free antivirus products until now also,
but the antivirus market how changing with the MSE appearance?
I would like to hear the opinion of everyone.

Why would yet another free product suddenly change the industry? It's not as though free antivirus software haven't been there all along for more than a decade.

Besides, it's cool to hate Microsoft, you get to be part of the "in" crowd if you do. That alone should see to it that other players remain relevant.

[acr1965]

I am surprised OneCare is no more. I would not be surprised to see MS keep Morro out for a while then release another line of OneCare because it has a few more bells and whistles. I do not think MS is releasing Morro without some financial gain planned in the future.

Nomatter what, many malware writers will create malware just to get around the MS prodcuts, Morro included. Plus there will always be the MS snooping that seems to go along with every update. That alone will turn off many people.

One thing yet unanswered is whether Morro will be shipped with new computers or not.

[Seer]

Originally Posted by Eice

Why would yet another free product suddenly change the industry?

Because it's not "yet another" product. As a simple example/comparison, look at the market share of MS browser.

Originally Posted by acr1965

One thing yet unanswered is whether Morro will be shipped with new computers or not.

My (not so wild) guess is that MSE will be included in MS OSes just like WD was.

[dw2108]

MSE wouldn't attract those who want an AV/AS with certain features not contained in the MSE package. Also, MSE would not attract those who have kissed MS products goodbye. And it definitely would not be of interest to those of us who upgraded from Vista to Win 98 SE .

Dave

[TonyW]

It'll not attract those users who wish to remain loyal to their AV of choice, free or paid.

[StarPlatinum]

I agree to the opinion of Seer.
Although possibly there were various factors, Netscape disappeared.
A free product of MS attracts a lot of people.

[funkydude]

MSE will not be bundled in any operating systems, doing so would just get them more law suites.

Originally Posted by TonyW

It'll not attract those users who wish to remain loyal to their AV of choice, free or paid.

It's sad that people feel they need to "remain loyal" to a product, because in reality that company wouldn't care at all if they stopped using the product. Loyalty being wasted away.

[the Tester]

I think the free offering of MSE will shake up the market.
Will it cause a collapse? I don't think so.
MicroSoft will have an impact if they eat into the payware market (McAfee, Norton etc..)
Will users stay with the programs that they are paying for when MSE is available for free?
Only time will answer that question.

[Durad]

Originally Posted by acr1965

I do not think MS is releasing Morro without some financial gain planned in the future.

I agree that Microsoft is planing to get popular in AV industry in order to be able to sale Internet Security based products with firewall, link scanner etc.

AV industry is already doing bad, charging $40 or more for products that are same or worse than some free products.

[funkydude]

Originally Posted by Durad

I agree that Microsoft is planing to get popular in AV industry in order to be able to sale Internet Security based products with firewall, link scanner etc.

That's quite a hefty assumption. The firewall has been free for years (as it should be) and now they are introducing the free AV. I highly doubt they are interested in link scanners (which in my opinion is one of the most useless piles of crap ever invented to date) considering Microsoft is one of the very rare companies that when it comes to security sticks to the light, efficient and effective approach, as shown by the firewall, and now by the AV.

The other good thing about it being free is they don't need all the marketing-BS like "anti-this" and "anti-that" special "technology" advertising.

[Victek123]

Originally Posted by StarPlatinum

MSE of Microsoft is scheduled to the public this autumn.
Although there were free antivirus products until now also,
but the antivirus market how changing with the MSE appearance?
I would like to hear the opinion of everyone.

.
There are issues with MSE that haven't been mentioned yet that make it less desirable then other free AV's. For instance its' updates are tied to Windows Update, so it will only update automatically if Windows Update is set to "Install updates automatically". Many people (myself included) don't use the automatic setting, preferring instead to view available updates first. That means you have to update MSE manually (which can be done through the GUI) to avoid the signatures getting out of date. That's not optimal for a security product.

Another issue is MSE requires "validation" (Window Genuine Advantage), so people who cannot or will not activate the OS cannot use it.

I don't believe MS has stated yet whether MSE will be included in Windows 7 or if it will be available as a separate download. I'm betting it won't be included (because of past anti-trust problems), but will be offered as a download, perhaps included in "Windows Live Essentials". If people have to download and install it that will reduce market penetration as well. After all why are so many people running without AV (or expired AV) when all they have to do is download a free product? The only way MSE could make a really big impact is if it's installed automatically with the OS, and it ain't gonna happen. Just my .02 of course.

Originally Posted by funkydude

The firewall has been free for years (as it should be) and now they are introducing the free AV. I highly doubt they are interested in link scanners (...) considering Microsoft is one of the very rare companies that when it comes to security sticks to the light, efficient and effective approach, as shown by the firewall, and now by the AV..

Agree

Originally Posted by Victek123

There are issues with MSE that haven't been mentioned yet that make it less desirable then other free AV's. For instance its' updates are tied to Windows Update, so it will only update automatically if Windows Update is set to "Install updates automatically". Many people (myself included) don't use the automatic setting, preferring instead to view available updates first. That means you have to update MSE manually (which can be done through the GUI) to avoid the signatures getting out of date. That's not optimal for a security product.

Another issue is MSE requires "validation" (Window Genuine Advantage), so people who cannot or will not activate the OS cannot use it.

These are issues for me , too . To be precise , it is not tied to Windows Update but to Microsoft Update . I use only Windows Update . On my test machine , it (1) installed Microsoft Update (to download updates for other MS products,too) and (2) configured it to automatic download and install . Updates might be very precise but are extremely slow to download/install because they rely on the heavy and precise MS Update service. Just uninstall I noticed , it had started downloading/installing tons of stuff I don't even need.

The validation (WGA) is not a problem , IMO.

Microsoft are brilliant in many ways but I'd prefer a bit quicker interface and something I can control. For free antivirus and something that can be controlled , AVIRA free remains on the top of that . But for paid products ...

[dw2108]

My fear of or for MSE is this: Shall MSE end up quickly in the same boat with Microsoft's CA AV and their famed Pest Patrol? History is sometime frightening.

Dave

Originally Posted by dw2108

Shall MSE end up quickly in the same boat with Microsoft's CA AV and their famed Pest Patrol? History is sometime frightening.

Don't be afraid .... No . At least not quickly .

At least it will raise competition?

[risl]

Well, atleast the AV companies need to work harder. No idea if that will result in lower prices, better technology or what ever but they need something better to attract new customers and maintain the old customer base.

Perhaps we'll just see more aggressive marketing, all kinds of special offers and more benefits for license renewing customers.

[tgell]

From the MSE forum,

Microsoft Security Essentials uses the AU/WU pipe and requires the Automatic Update services to be running.
Microsoft Security Essentials does not care what your Windows Automatic Update settings are.
Microsoft Security Essentials should update at least once per day as long as the machine is powered on and connected for an extended period of time
If a scheduled check is missed, there is no "catch up" check in the current beta version. This will be address in the next beta release.
Updates are also offered via the normal AU channel, so you may find that AU is advising you about available updates and when you look, it is the MSE signature update. This can happen if your AU check happens in between the scheduled check (completed or missed) and a new update was made available to WU.

[vijayind]

Originally Posted by Durad

I agree that Microsoft is planing to get popular in AV industry in order to be able to sale Internet Security based products with firewall, link scanner etc.

AV industry is already doing bad, charging $40 or more for products that are same or worse than some free products.

Well as per MS Forefront blog, they are releasing Morro so that it can feed data via DSS to increase detection of the enterprise security (Forefront) product line.

It is important to note that MSE will have a very positive impact on Forefront, because it allows Microsoft to capture even more threat intelligence from customers as more people use the free anti-malware solution. We'll be able to use that information to help extend our security research and in the development of signatures and protection capabilities in our Forefront products, which are being deployed by increasing numbers of enterprises today, with thousands of Microsoft security partners certified to sell and deploy Forefront solutions.

http://blogs.technet.com/forefront/a...forefront.aspx

[m00nbl00d]

Originally Posted by Victek123

.
There are issues with MSE that haven't been mentioned yet that make it less desirable then other free AV's. For instance its' updates are tied to Windows Update, so it will only update automatically if Windows Update is set to "Install updates automatically". Many people (myself included) don't use the automatic setting, preferring instead to view available updates first. That means you have to update MSE manually (which can be done through the GUI) to avoid the signatures getting out of date. That's not optimal for a security product.

I'm one of those who like to manually update Windows. But, I also manually update the anti-malware products I use (on-demand and real-time) and, I also manually update the real-time protection, and that to make sure that it is always up-to-date, even though it is set to automatically check for updates.

It is a good practice for people to remember to manually update their security products. Also, the Operating System, for that matter. This way people aren't relying on scheduled updates to check whether or not there are new updates. It may happen that a manual verification for new updates brings new signature definitions and that it may, actually, stop a malware from infecting the system.

So, is not that a bad thing to manually check for updates.

Another issue is MSE requires "validation" (Window Genuine Advantage), so people who cannot or will not activate the OS cannot use it.

If people can't or will not activate Windows, then it is pirated. Just a wild guess. Those who have legitimate copy of Windows have nothing to fear (If there's anything to fear), and no reasons not to activate it?

Still, upon installation of MSE, I was able to install it without system validation in a virtual machine that had no Internet connection.

Does MSE validate only afterwards?

If that's what happens, and in fact MSE stops functioning, I don't understand the concerns. I mean, why should some user who decided to use an illegal copy of Windows have the same rights to use something, from Microsoft, than a user who paid for a legitimate copy?

It makes sense to me that, those who aren't willing to pay for a legitimate version, shouldn't be able to use any other application from Microsoft, without validating the Operating System, first. I even consider that they shouldn't be able to update Windows, at all. But, it's just my personal opinion.

Now, back on the general conversation:

I agree with funkydude. The introduction of MSE shouldn't collapse the anti-virus market. They should all improve their products. It's always good to have more options. And, in the freeware field, MSE will provide non-crippled protection to it's users, while other freeware offers limited protection, and that because those security vendors also provide paid solutions.

If, until now, they haven't felt the need to really improve their products, maybe now with the introduction of MSE they will. After all, unlike some security vendors stated, MSE doesn't provide a basic protection. For what I know, it provides anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-rootkit and according to a small test by funkydude it detected exploits, for what I remember in PDF files.

So, it doesn't just offer basic protection.

I hardly believe that Microsoft will be shipping it with their Windows 7 O.S, to avoid other legal actions, but I do hope that when people buy their computers, they'll be told about it and not have installed crappy trial versions by, also, some of the vendors that criticized MSE from being a basic protection.

But, to be honest, I do hope that Microsoft considers to ship it with Windows 7. That means that more people will be better protected, right from the start. And, not actually believe they're being protected by some crappy trial version, that they even aren't aware is a trial version, and an expired one, to be honest. It happens, unfortunately.

[IceCube1010]

I guess, only time will tell. But if your comfortable with Avast Free or Paid, Avira Free or Paid, AVG Free or Paid etc etc etc... You typically leave it that way as long as you don't have any problems. I installed Avast on my sisters pc 3 years ago and she now pays for the program each year. Why, because she is comfortable with the protection it gives. I think MSE will create a stir in the AV/AM field but ultimately it's the users that will take the plunge and use it or stick with what they feel comfortable with.

Just my .02 cents
Ice

[kinwolf]

The way I see it, it won't change much for the following reasons:

- There are already many good free AV available and it never prevented the paid market from florishing.
- MSE is mostly a scanner, it has no behavior analyser, no HIPS, meaning it relies entirely on signatures and generic signatures. Consider that 4000-5000 new threats appear each day and you can see how signatures are not enough anymore.
- Microsoft protects Microsoft, don't expect any integration to Firefox, Thunderbird, Yahoo IM, etc.
- Microsoft does not have an history of free products, unless they are integrated in the OS. In fact, it has an history of eventually charging or discontinuing such products. I predict that if their corporate AV business isn't fruitful, the free MSE will disapear quickly.

[blacknight]

Originally Posted by kinwolf

The way I see it, it won't change much for the following reasons:

- There are already many good free AV available and it never prevented the paid market from florishing.
- MSE is mostly a scanner, it has no behavior analyser, no HIPS, meaning it relies entirely on signatures and generic signatures. Consider that 4000-5000 new threats appear each day and you can see how signatures are not enough anymore.

The same I think.