Double VPN

[badjoey]

hi guys it sounds to me like alot of people here for one reason or another do not like xerobank or they do not trust the service.well i used the service and the only complaints i have are that support for the product sucks and i also found it to be slow when downloading from torrent sites as well as other file sharing sites like limewire or ares.also i do like some people take issue with any service that also does with secret govt agencies with 3 letter initials.also it strikes me as a little odd that steve says every product but xerobank and cryptohippie are pretty much useless for anonymity because they are single hop connections.
so i did some digging on some underground websites to find out what people who really have something to hide use for anonymity and 2 names kept popping up.
the first is secretsline.com and these guys offer several different packages and also for the uber paranoid offer a double vpn which is basically what xerobank is.the difference is these guys have connections set up in places where it would be really hard for the feds in north america or western europe to get your info plus they swear no logs.you can choose between places like russia,estonia,malaysia as well as a host of other countries. and you know these guys are serious about your anonymity because they will not accept payment by paypal or credit card.they only accept anonymous payment thru paysafe cards,egold and things like that.

the other is getvpn.com,these guys are based out of russia as well and offen open vpn as well as pptp vpns and your choices are the ukraine,russia and the usa for host countries.

just thought i would put this out there for some people to check out since there seem to be so many haters of xerobank.

[LockBox]

What "underground" sites did you get your tips?

[caspian]

Originally Posted by badjoey

the first is secretsline.com a

No such website exists

[badjoey]

my bad caspian the first site is:http://secretsline.net/
and the second is:http://www.getvpn.com/

as for the sites all i will say is they are carding sites which are constantly being investigated by at least half a dozen govt agencies.i will not give the names of the sites so dont ask.

[caspian]

okay thanks.

[LockBox]

Originally Posted by badjoey

my bad caspian the first site is:http://secretsline.net/
and the second is:http://www.getvpn.com/

as for the sites all i will say is they are carding sites which are constantly being investigated by at least half a dozen govt agencies.i will not give the names of the sites so dont ask.

Your knowing where to go to sign-in to multiple illegal credit card scamming forums (so-called "Card Forums") tells us all we need to know about "Bad Joey."

[Warlockz]

Your knowing where to go to sign-in to multiple illegal credit card scamming forums (so-called "Card Forums") tells us all we need to know about "Bad Joey."

LOL what are you some kind of detective or something?

and the second is:http://www.getvpn.com/

getvpn.com

Basically has Xerobanks TOS so is just as worthless!

getVPN may disclose your Personal Information if required to do so by law or in the good-faith belief that such action is necessary to: (a) conform to the edicts of the law or comply with legal process served on getVPN or parent company; (b) protect and defend the rights or property of getVPN, the site or the users of getVPN; and, (c) act to protect the personal safety of users of getVPN, the site or the public.

[LockBox]

Originally Posted by Warlockz

LOL what are you some kind of detective or something?

No, not a detective, just hate the slime that trades in credit card numbers and stolen identities.
Worst of the worst cybercrooks.

[Warlockz]

just hate the slime that trades in credit card numbers and stolen identities.

I have to agree with you, nobody deserves to get jacked by some cyberpunk, unless its the cybercrook reaping his own medicine LOL

[LockBox]

Hey Warlockz, I noticed the Proxyfire Master Suite Professional in your sig-line. What are the features you like that make it worth paying for? What do you get the most use out of?

[n33m3rz]

There are three types of anonymity goals in my opinion.

1. Avoid embarrassment, or get around people who try to "help you avoid embarrassment"

This is like getting around filters at work that block porn websites. You don't want them to know you surf porn because you will get embarrassed or in trouble, or maybe they block porn and you want to get around it.

For this, you can just use a secure free proxy. They might log at there end but if all you are doing is surfing porn at work, does it really matter if some dude with an open proxy sees the same porn as you? Probably not.

2. Avoid hassles, possibility of slight legal trouble

This is for like Torrents. If you get busted downloading torrents, you might get your internet shut off, might get sued, could technically go to prison over it but extremely low chance of this ever happening unless you upload **** tons.

For this, you don't really need more than a seed box. Seed boxes, or VPS, will let you download torrents and if there are complaints filed chances are the provider of the seedbox isn't going to give a **** considering they are a seed box company and they know that everyone is using their services for technically illegal torrents. If you get a VPS it will depend a lot on the country it is in. Sweden is pretty good for Torrents.


3. Avoid prosecution for criminal offenses

This is to avoid getting in serious ****, regardless of if you are a carder or anti-communist in China and everything in between.

For this there are two threat models. For people who are doing things that are unlikely to get them having a dedicated team out to find them (people buying fake IDs so they can drink alcohol at the clubs), using Tor to get on the carder forums with SSL is the best bet probably. Steve seems like a chill guy and I respect him from the few posts of his I have read, but I would not trust a third party company with my anonymity for a split second if I was doing things that are illegal enough to get me thrown in jail over.

For the other end of the threat spectrum (the people selling said fake IDs to the college students looking to get into bars a few years early) I would suggest Tor and public WiFi at public places where a lot of others are using WiFi in close proximity, plus spoofing of Mac address.


VPNs with multiple hops fall somewhere between 2 and 3, but in my opinion they are no better than a single VPS or seed box for torrents, and they are not anonymous enough to do anything more illegal or frowned upon than that (and let's remember in some places it is illegal to say the government is poo-poo heads)


And LOL to the people who think carders are the lowest of the low cyber criminals, I don't approve of credit card fraud or identity theft (in most cases, but let's say your are falsely accused of a crime and going to be sentenced to death, in this case would it be wrong to steal an identity and live under it? I think not), but I have way more respect for carders than I have for people into CP, pedophiles are by FAR the lowest of the low as far as cyber crime goes. Besides, 95 percent of the time the credit card company takes the loss when someone gets skimmed and even though I don't approve of credit card fraud last I checked no skimmer screwed anyone out of 700 billion dollars.

And double lol to the person who said xerobank etc are worthless because of their TOS saying they will cooperate with the government. Of course they will cooperate with the government they are a legitimate company. If anything I give them props for being up front about it, because the companies that don't mention they will cooperate with the government are just lying by omission. If you need anonymity to do something that requires you to be so anonymous you are at risk of government coming after you, then are you naive to use the services of ANY single entity (or even a combination of multiple entities that make a living offering pseudo-anonymous services) and should stick to using volunteer networks such as Tor.

[LockBox]

Originally Posted by n33m3rz

And LOL to the people who think carders are the lowest of the low cyber criminals, I don't approve of credit card fraud or identity theft (in most cases, but let's say your are falsely accused of a crime and going to be sentenced to death, in this case would it be wrong to steal an identity and live under it? I think not), but I have way more respect for carders than I have for people into CP, pedophiles are by FAR the lowest of the low as far as cyber crime goes. Besides, 95 percent of the time the credit card company takes the loss when someone gets skimmed and even though I don't approve of credit card fraud last I checked no skimmer screwed anyone out of 700 billion dollars.

Card Forum users bilk strangers out of millions a year, not just through their card use. Child porn is obviously horrible, but I've read several things lately that say it's overblown and real child porn is spread more by the government in stings than by private users! Prosecutors are arresting people for looking at 'child models' on the Internet. Cybercrime runs the gamut, but we need to get these international card rings far more than some 70 year old perv in Montana who's looking at kids in their swimsuits.

[badjoey]

gerrard you are messed up dude.you got the nerve to bash me cause i said i visited some carding sites but yet in your mind its okay for guys to be surfing the net trying to find pictures of young kids in bathing suits.thats really messed up and really makes me wonder about why you wish to be anonymous.believe me dude i would much rather be labled a scam artist or fraud artist than tagged as a pervert or paedophile.

[SteveTX]

Originally Posted by badjoey

believe me dude i would much rather be labled a scam artist or fraud artist than tagged as a pervert or paedophile.

Gerard, what badjoey is saying is that you need to buy access to cp sites using stolen credit cards. To get the stolen credit cards you gotta visit the carder sites. You don't want your name on there, right?

In all seriousness, those carder sites are a joke, as are the proxies they use. Carders are a particularly malicious and paranoid sect of internet creep. They set up proxies that actually spy on and scam other scammers, then circulate them around as "open proxies" and in some more advanced plots, they own the vpn service and use it to spy on other carders.

[Warlockz]

Hey Warlockz, I noticed the Proxyfire Master Suite Professional in your sig-line. What are the features you like that make it worth paying for? What do you get the most use out of?

I didn't pay for it, I got it for free, I mainly just use it to check proxies, with the right proxy judge, you can find loads of good proxies!

I don't feel like getting all techie at the moment so You can go here for more info and resources

http://www.proxyfire.net/forum/

Gerard, what badjoey is saying is that you need to buy access to cp sites using stolen credit cards. To get the stolen credit cards you gotta visit the carder sites. You don't want your name on there, right?

OK? now that's just straight Trolling!

You don't know what the facts are, so why are you targeting "badjoey?" I bet hes not even a carder, and knows nothing about Carding!

Most Carders use the stolen #s to order all their toys on eBay Ect like upgrading their machines ECT! I still don't agree with their activities though!

LOL People trying to join CP sites are to Dumb to consider Carding!

[LockBox]

Hey, time out. Time OUT. When did I ever say I went to CP sites? I was making a point about the difference between old pervs looking at kids in swimsuits with the kind of international card dealing I have seen detailed on Dateline NBC.

I'm "messed up?" BadJoey, I've been around Wilders a long time and I promise you that you won't last long here talking to fellow members that way. Maybe I should have used the smiley emoticon (I hate those things) to get across the point that "Bad Joey" sounds like a bigtime mobster knowing where all the carding sites are. I was kidding!

[Kuro]

I don't know how secure Xerobank really is, but it was the best I could find at the time I got it.

Anyway, this post from this forum made me less concerned about xerobank ratting me out:

"Requests from Authorities

Xerobank data is encrypted and resides on multiple servers in many countries/multiple jurisdictions. It does not reside in one country, in one location on a single server. A single subpoena served in a single location would likely result in nothing for an entity, whatsover.

1) "XeroBank has built its privacy networks to have client account data separated, segregated, and encrypted on multiple servers in multiple countries so no single party can compromise a client and their data."

2) "Most internal account transaction details are not mathematically reversible due to one-way operations. Subsequently, XeroBank does not have specific client data to share with network providers, legal authorities, or law enforcement of any jurisdiction. "

In other words, due to the way the payment structure is set up, Xerobank has no way of knowing exactly who the individual customer is. XB has paid close attention to this "separation" process thus further protecting client's anonymity. XB offers choices now that will assist prospective customers in seperating their identity from payment, and will likely offer even more choices in the future.

3) "If XeroBank is served with court orders of all appropriate jurisdictions for all specific servers, we may be forced to attempt to trace live data connections. A coordinated multijurisdictional effort is highly unlikely, even in the most improbable of circumstances."

Read that last staement carefully. Though not impossible, an entity would be hard pressed to submit subpoenas for a data stream that exists in many countries. It would not be totally impossible but would be enormously complex.

4) "A coordinated multijurisdictional effort is highly unlikely, even in the most improbable of circumstances."

This next sentence is significant.

5) "Subsequently, XeroBank does not have specific client data to share with network providers, legal authorities, or law enforcement of any jurisdiction. "


Clearly, XB will not, and cannot be a responsible party to clear legal violations.

But if you read carefully it would be no easy feat to track down individual user activity and tie it to one specific account and one individual.

Steve, and the XB team have gone to great lengths to protect the privacy of it's customers with a solid network of protection. They have an enormous amount of integrity.

I hope this allays some of your understandable concerns."

[caspian]

Yeah. Xerobank kicks ass in my opinion.

[Kuro]

Originally Posted by caspian

Yeah. Xerobank kicks ass in my opinion.

Well, after reading some threads about Metropipe/Cryptohippie/Xerobank connection.. I just don't know what to think.

Also, support has been much less than responsive. I've tried contacting them twice and I never got an answer. (funny, that's what people where complaining about with MP too)

Anyway, I'm still undecided. Just wanted to make that clear, I'm neither promoting nor flaming XB for now.

[LockBox]

At least Steve is here and talking with us and he provides a lot of good insight. XeroBank is great but honestly I've never had to contact support for anything. Maybe that's a downside, I just wouldn't know because I've never needed them and to me that says a lot.

[SteveTX]

I noticed that too. As for CH vs XB vs MP, you should contact me offlist. Lots of things to be said there.

[fuzzylogic]

I never quite got the whole idea behind 'doublevpn' just tend to be shoddy put together servers in different countries. they are just saving you the work of chaining stuff together and charging you a fortune for the privilege. Its better to use openvpn combined with SSH/JAP/TOR then to waste your money with doublevpn's.

[geazer40]

Originally Posted by Gerard Morentzy

At least Steve is here and talking with us and he provides a lot of good insight. XeroBank is great but honestly I've never had to contact support for anything. Maybe that's a downside, I just wouldn't know because I've never needed them and to me that says a lot.

just because other vpn providers decide not to talk beyond there own forums doesn't mean that they ain't any good xerobank also has probs like limited support on there forums so they come to wilders to ask support probs also if you sign up like i did to shadow vpn then decide it not for you if you cancel subs it boots you off even though you paid for the month other vpns i used that dont happen

xerobank vpn also like many others leaks dns i showed steve that it does his reply was we know its a windows thing but if you look at one of his posts about this it suggests they wrote there software to combat it but it doesn't

quote
Hillsboro, that was part of our plan for writing a new OpenVPN GUI. The way windows handles DNS is atrocious. There are some commands for dumping, clearing, and resetting, but it is definitely an issue in my opinion


so even though you have xerobank fanboys who come to say its great it also has its faults but other providers prolly decide not to bash as it can have a negative effect

[SteveTX]

Not really. The other providers are dead scared of open competition.

We will be unveiling a tool which demonstrates how easy it is to bypass Anonymizer, Jondonym, JAP, Tor, MegaProxy, Roxyproxy, and all web proxies including Proxify and others.

Get your helmet!

[geazer40]

Originally Posted by SteveTX

Not really. The other providers are dead scared of open competition.

We will be unveiling a tool which demonstrates how easy it is to bypass Anonymizer, Jondonym, JAP, Tor, MegaProxy, Roxyproxy, and all web proxies including Proxify and others.

Get your helmet!

your software don't mean nothing because i assume you could alter it to work in xerobanks favor

all i am saying about you is your open vpn does leak dns your support is not good your paying system does not allow you to cancel without being booted off the vpn so you should tell people that so they can make sure they don't cancel till the next payment is due