TI verifies the backup many times after a backup is done

[haerdalis]

This has haunted me starting from when I got TI.
Is there a way to talk TI into verify just once after a backup?

I run a manual task with verify after backup checked. Currently it verifies a random number of times (1-5) after the backup is done.
I ask because sometimes the verification ends up taking longer than the backup itself, in addition to being annoying in the long run.

[DwnNdrty]

If you do an actual restore of the backup to a spare hard drive, and the restore is successful, then you will have the confidence in your images and no verify will be needed. And in fact even if the verify says successful, that is still no guarantee that a restore will be good - as some users have found out later when it was too late.

There are a few of us here, myself included, that never do verifies.

[haerdalis]

I've noticed the posts about those bad experiences.
However, I don't have a spare drive, just 2 drives, one is the system drive, and one for data.

I usually image the system drive, in addition to essensial files from the data drive.
I backup the system drive (excluding its backup folder) to the data drive, and the opposite, which means if either one suddenly becomes faulty, I still have both the system and most of the data available.

I use verify, just to know at least the basic checks have been done, but my point is it shouldn't do it over and over.

Those bad experiences you refer to is the reason I always have an average of 3 backups of each so I at most loses 3 days worth as long as one of them works properly.

[bodgy]

Do you have verify as part of the image task, or separately verify?

Colin

[haerdalis]

Originally Posted by bodgy

Do you have verify as part of the image task, or separately verify?

Colin

It is part of the image task.

A separate manual task is too troublesome because I've found no way to run several manual tasks sequentally without intervention, and scheduled tasks isn't too trustworthy as noted several places in this forum.

[GroverH]

haerdalis,
Remember that TrueImage will verify all the images in that folder everytime you do an incremental or differential. If you are using a lot of incrementals, it might be quicker for you to run more frequent full disk backups.

[haerdalis]

Originally Posted by GroverH

haerdalis,
Remember that TrueImage will verify all the images in that folder everytime you do an incremental or differential. If you are using a lot of incrementals, it might be quicker for you to run more frequent full disk backups.

I always run full backups.

Btw, maybe that is the reason it verifies alot..
The count of FULL images in the backup location might match the number of verifications when I think of it.

Don't tell me it verifies all the full images in the backup location after each backup?

If this is the case it must be yet another bug.

To be blunt, I use the absolute minimum of features in TI due to limited trust, this means always full images, never scheduler, incremental, differential, etc.

After a restore of the system drive I need to recreate the tasks, otherwise they wont work (due to a confirmed issue/bug) so I try to limit the number of defined tasks too.

I've been hoping for a new build where most of the issues are fixed, but it doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon (I guess it'll never happen, the next release is probably v12 instead of a new build), we're still at 8053 english.

[haerdalis]

It seems TI indeed verifies all FULL backups when you do a backup with verify enabled.

The number of verifies seems consistent with the number of backups in the backup location so I can't seem to find any other plausible explanation.

This would be reasonable if it had been the master image and incrementals/differentials, but I'm using FULL images exclusively.

Oh, if this is the case I'm somewhat thankful I tend to only have 3-5 backups in that location.

[bodgy]

As you only do full backups, perhpas just imaging them to a folder on the external drive, rather than a backup location might be the way to go. Outside the backup location, TI only verifies the file it has just (full) imaged.

I missed in my first post that you were using a backup location. It veriefies all files stored there, as when it comes to consilidation time, it combines them all and then, images a diff/inc type. This isn not a bug, but more an annoyance, that would be nice to be able to switch off in cases like yours.

Colin

[shieber]

My recommendation is to not do the verifies. If you have confirmed that you can actually backup and restore with the version of ATI you are using, then validations aren't really telling you much. After all, it's not verifying the file contents with the original disk data,; it's jsut confirming the ATI can write and read the file properly. That's not something you need to test every time you do a backup.

Backing to an external drive is a good idea so that you can store some backup copies in a remote location. In case of flood, fire, errant children, and other dire probs, you can still put things back as they were.

[haerdalis]

Originally Posted by bodgy

As you only do full backups, perhpas just imaging them to a folder on the external drive, rather than a backup location might be the way to go. Outside the backup location, TI only verifies the file it has just (full) imaged.

I missed in my first post that you were using a backup location. It veriefies all files stored there, as when it comes to consilidation time, it combines them all and then, images a diff/inc type. This isn not a bug, but more an annoyance, that would be nice to be able to switch off in cases like yours.

Colin

This area of TI seems to be plain silly when I think of it with the new perspective. :/

If you don't use a backup location you can only have a single backup if ran by a task (manual or not) because every run overwrites the older (I guess, because this requires a filename, never tested it).

If you do use a backup location then it verifies all full backups in the backup location (to allow for consolidation etc, if you're correct) after a single full backup is done.

I've never encountered TI attempting to consolidate anything, I've never asked it to do such a thing, and I doubt TI Home 11 can do it at all.
If TI can't do the thing it prepares for with all the extra verifying, then it's a bug or eh.. well, a bug.


On my computer, when the allotted space or number of backups is exceeded it deletes the oldest in the backup location, no consolidation nor an option to do one.

[Earthling]

Originally Posted by haerdalis

... If you don't use a backup location you can only have a single backup if ran by a task (manual or not) because every run overwrites the older (I guess, because this requires a filename, never tested it)
...

You guessed wrong there. You can have as many as you have room for, and store them in any place that suits. You only need a filename if doing an incremental or differential. For full backups you just give it a new name (and location if you want).

[haerdalis]

Originally Posted by shieber

My recommendation is to not do the verifies. If you have confirmed that you can actually backup and restore with the version of ATI you are using, then validations aren't really telling you much. After all, it's not verifying the file contents with the original disk data,; it's jsut confirming the ATI can write and read the file properly. That's not something you need to test every time you do a backup.

Backing to an external drive is a good idea so that you can store some backup copies in a remote location. In case of flood, fire, errant children, and other dire probs, you can still put things back as they were.

I never thought of it that way before.
Essensially this means the verify is useless in any case as long as you've managed to create and restore a backup at least once?

I guess this won't be what is normally expected from verification, no matter what product.

Sadly I don't have a external drive, and this is the reason I do it as I described. If one of them goes, then the most important data and the system is still safe.
If both decides to fail for whatever reason, well...

Thankfully I've got dvd's of the most important data too, in addition to dvd's of all installers, serials, etc of all my software though a restore from these do easily take 48-72 hours.

[haerdalis]

Originally Posted by Earthling

You guessed wrong there. You can have as many as you have room for, and store them in any place that suits. You only need a filename if doing an incremental or differential. For full backups you just give it a new name (and location if you want).

It seems I was correct after all..

I tried to create a manual task with a location outside "backup locations",
and it required me to select a location AND a filename (I selected the filename "backup.tib").
I then tried to run that task twice, and on the second backup it overwrote
the backup.tib (It never asked for a new name as you seemed to suggest it did) with the new backup.

The whole point of a manual task is to be able to run a backup without
going through the entire wizard the entire time, but instead just a click or two.

[tuttle]

If you create a backup manually, proceeding through each step of the process and then assigning a filename, you can have as many Full backups as you want. Each can have a unique name assigned by you. As you found though, it can be tedious having to go through all those steps each time.

If you create a Task, but to be run manually, then you can choose just a single filename and the next time it's run the previous Full backup will be overwritten.

If you use a Backup Location, and choose that as the destination for the backup to be created by the manually-started Task, then ATI can assign a unique name each time. Then you can have an unlimited number of Full backups in that Backup Location, each with a unique filename. However, the downside is, as you discovered, that ATI will validate all images in that Backup Location.

You'll have to decide the route that is best for you. I have summarized them, to make it easy for others to understand the issues and make their own choice.

[TheWeaz]

Originally Posted by haerdalis

It seems I was correct after all..

I tried to create a manual task with a location outside "backup locations",
and it required me to select a location AND a filename (I selected the filename "backup.tib").
I then tried to run that task twice, and on the second backup it overwrote
the backup.tib (It never asked for a new name as you seemed to suggest it did) with the new backup.

The whole point of a manual task is to be able to run a backup without
going through the entire wizard the entire time, but instead just a click or two.

You might try a post backup command to rename the file by adding the date/time. That way the same task could be used repeatedly.

[Earthling]

Nah, you need to try again. It is only suggesting backup.tib - that's a sort of default. You can edit the path and filename to whatever you want.

A number of old hands here use this method - no scheduled tasks, no backup locations, no incrementals, no secure zone - just choose what you want to do for yourself.

[TheWeaz]

Originally Posted by Earthling

Nah, you need to try again. It is only suggesting backup.tib - that's a sort of default. You can edit the path and filename to whatever you want.

A number of old hands here use this method - no backup locations, no incrementals, no secure zone - just choose what you want to do for yourself.

But you need to step through the wizard each time. If you create a task you only need to select the task from the list and hit Run.

[Earthling]

It's horses for courses as usual. To me the wizard seems a tiny price to pay for the reliability, control and flexibility of DIY.

[haerdalis]

Originally Posted by Earthling

Nah, you need to try again. It is only suggesting backup.tib - that's a sort of default. You can edit the path and filename to whatever you want.

A number of old hands here use this method - no scheduled tasks, no backup locations, no incrementals, no secure zone - just choose what you want to do for yourself.

It don't suggest that filename, I entered it. The task wizard wont allow you to click "next" without a filename when not in a defined backup location.

[haerdalis]

Originally Posted by Earthling

It's horses for courses as usual. To me the wizard seems a tiny price to pay for the reliability, control and flexibility of DIY.

Yes it is, and probably this would be enough if you only do a backup once or twice a month..
I do backups 1-2 times a day, and then it's unacceptable.

However, the repeated verifies is annoying too..
If they don't have a purpose at all (as some seem to suggest), then I might just skip it, bug or no bug.

[haerdalis]

Originally Posted by TheWeaz

You might try a post backup command to rename the file by adding the date/time.

Yes I might, but then we're probably in the land of unreliable functions (and is the reason I try to keep it as basic as possible which I've mentioned before).

I don't know the state of that function as I've never tried it, but to me it seems like everything outside making a straight backup is unreliable (when taking into account everything mentioned in these forums regarding TI 11 8053 etc).

[TheWeaz]

Originally Posted by haerdalis

Yes I might, but then we're probably in the land of unreliable functions (and is the reason I try to keep it as basic as possible which I've mentioned before).

I don't know the state of that function as I've never tried it, but to me it seems like everything outside making a straight backup is unreliable (when taking into account everything mentioned in these forums regarding TI 11 8053 etc).

While I don’t use/need it for TI, I found an app called NameDate that I use daily to add the date to newly created backup files. So far, it’s never failed.
I have a slew of manual tasks defined and like the ability to launch at will with just a click or two. I’m sure if you can define just what your needs are, someone can help come up with a set of tasks that will serve you well.

[haerdalis]

Originally Posted by TheWeaz

While I don’t use/need it for TI, I found an app called NameDate that I use daily to add the date to newly created backup files. So far, it’s never failed.
I have a slew of manual tasks defined and like the ability to launch at will with just a click or two. I’m sure if you can define just what your needs are, someone can help come up with a set of tasks that will serve you well.

While not ideal this might be of help, at least until Acronis has managed to quash some of its issues.

I just need a simple straight forward backup of C:
and the same of the folders D:\_1mydisk,D:\Prg

I don't create many tasks as these needs to be recreated whenever I restore the system drive due to a confirmed bug (it no longer can find the drives tasks refer to) which in essence is caused by a fix for a bug regarding rearranged driveletters.

If it sounds complicated, it is, or at least seems to be.

This is something I'd like a fix for, and it was mentioned it would be in the next build.. But that was 6 months ago, and we're still at the same build.

One thing that would help regarding invalidated tasks is a small tool which corrected the diskid part in the defined tasks.

[TheWeaz]

"I don't create many tasks as these needs to be recreated whenever I restore the system drive due to a confirmed bug ... "

I see. I saw no good reason to "upgrade" to version 11, so I still run version 10 which, in my experience, does not have that problem.